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Thread: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

  1. #1

    The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    http://www.the-highway.com/Myth.html
    PT1
    Working through this can be instructive;
    1]No one denies that man has a will — that is, a faculty of choosing what he wishes to say, do, and think. But have you ever reflected on the pitiful weakness of your will? Though you have the ability to make a decision, you do not have the power to carry out your purpose. Will may devise a course of action, but will has no power to execute its intention.

    2]Any sober reflection on your experience will produce the conclusion, “A man’s heart deviseth his way: but THE LORD DIRECTETH his steps” (Prov 16:9). Rather than extolling the human will, we ought to humbly praise the Lord whose purposes shape our lives. As Jeremiah confessed, “O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps” (Jer 10:23).

    3]Yes, you may choose what you want, and you may plan what you will do; but your will is not free to accomplish anything contrary to the purposes of God. Neither have you any power to reach your goals but that which God allows you

    4]
    The next time you are so enamored with your own will, remember Jesus’ parable about the rich man. The wealthy man said, “This I WILL do: I WILL pull down all my barns, and build greater: and there I WILL bestow all my fruits and my goods. . . But God said unto him. Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee” (Luke 12:18-21). He was free to plan but not free to accomplish; so it is with you.

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    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    What about these quotes makes sense to you? It's easy enough to respond to Chantry, and Spurgeon, but without knowing what you see in the argument, that would be pointless.

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    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    Also, if man does not direct his own steps and God ordains each step... did God ordain the eating of the fruit from that tree?

    If the answer is no, God didn't direct those steps... then free will, is free will.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    http://www.the-highway.com/Myth.html
    PT1
    Working through this can be instructive;
    1]No one denies that man has a will — that is, a faculty of choosing what he wishes to say, do, and think. But have you ever reflected on the pitiful weakness of your will? Though you have the ability to make a decision, you do not have the power to carry out your purpose. Will may devise a course of action, but will has no power to execute its intention.

    2]Any sober reflection on your experience will produce the conclusion, “A man’s heart deviseth his way: but THE LORD DIRECTETH his steps” (Prov 16:9). Rather than extolling the human will, we ought to humbly praise the Lord whose purposes shape our lives. As Jeremiah confessed, “O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps” (Jer 10:23).

    3]Yes, you may choose what you want, and you may plan what you will do; but your will is not free to accomplish anything contrary to the purposes of God. Neither have you any power to reach your goals but that which God allows you

    4]
    The next time you are so enamored with your own will, remember Jesus’ parable about the rich man. The wealthy man said, “This I WILL do: I WILL pull down all my barns, and build greater: and there I WILL bestow all my fruits and my goods. . . But God said unto him. Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee” (Luke 12:18-21). He was free to plan but not free to accomplish; so it is with you.
    So you're saying it's God's will that most people go to hell then.

  5. #5

    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    pt2;
    1]But freedom of the will is cited as an important factor in making MORAL decisions. Man’s will is said to be free to choose between good and evil. But again we must ask, from what is it free? And what is man’s will free to choose?

    2]The will of man is his power to choose between alternatives.
    Your will does decide your actions from a number of options.
    You have the faculty to direct your own thoughts, words, and deeds.
    Your decisions are not formed by an outside force, but from within yourself.
    No man is compelled to act contrary to his will, nor forced to say what he does not wish.
    Your will guides your actions.


    3]Yet this does not mean that the power to decide is free from all influence.

    You make choices based on your understanding, your feelings, your likes and dislikes, and your appetites.

    In other words, your will is not free from yourself! Your choices are determined by your own basic character.

    The will is not independent of your nature, but the slave of it.

    Your choices do not shape your character, but your character guides your choices.

    The will is quite partial to what you know, feel, love, and desire.

    You always choose on the basis of your disposition. according to the condition of your heart.

    4]It is just for this reason that your will is NOT free to do good. Your will is the servant of your heart, and your heart is evil

    5]Your decisions are molded by your understanding, and the Bible says of all men, “And their foolish heart was darkened” (Rom 1:21). Man can only be righteous when he desires to have fellowship with God, but, “There is NONE that seeketh after God” (Rom 3:11).

    Your appetites crave sin, and thus you cannot choose God.

    To choose good is contrary to human nature. If you chose to obey God, it would be the result of external compulsion. But you are free to choose and hence your choice is enslaved to your own evil nature

    The will of man is free from outside force, but not from the bias of human nature.

    That bias is against God. Man’s power of decision are free to choose whatever the human heart dictates; therefore there is no possibility of a man choosing to please God without prior work of divine grace
    6]What most people mean by free will is the idea that man is by nature neutral and therefore able to choose either good or evil.
    This simply is not true. The human will and the whole of human nature is bent to ONLY evil CONTINUALLY Jeremiah asked, “Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots’? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil” (Jer 13:23). It is impossible. It is contrary to nature Thus do men desperately need the supernatural transformation of their natures, else their wills are enslaved to choosing evil.

    7]
    In spite of the great praise that is given to “free will,” we have seen that man’s will is not free to choose a course contrary to God’s purposes nor free to act contrary to his own moral nature. Your will does not determine the events of your life nor the circumstances of it. Ethical choices are not formed by a neutral mind but always dictated by your personality makeup.

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    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    So you're saying it's God's will that most people go to hell then.
    I will bet the Non-answer to this will be that God only directs the steps of the elect
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    http://www.the-highway.com/Myth.html
    PT1
    Working through this can be instructive;
    1]No one denies that man has a will — that is, a faculty of choosing what he wishes to say, do, and think. But have you ever reflected on the pitiful weakness of your will? Though you have the ability to make a decision, you do not have the power to carry out your purpose. Will may devise a course of action, but will has no power to execute its intention.
    Weak willed? On the contrary! Man's will is very strong indeed! So strong in fact, it takes the Holy Spirit breaking through to get a man to even think about submitting his will to God.

    How about defining "free will" as you see it first. Also, did Adam's will follow his nature when he chose to eat of the forbidden tree?
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  8. #8

    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    So you're saying it's God's will that most people go to hell then.
    I do not think Pastor Chantry believed that. I have heard him preach many times in person, and many more on tape,
    if you would like to listen;
    http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.as...Walter_Chantry

  9. #9

    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    Athanasius

    What about these quotes makes sense to you?
    When we look at any one topic...it is important to set a boundry or a fence, before trying to solve the puzzle.

    When we are speaking of the will.....we are not necessarily speaking about the ability to choose....or many other rabbit trails.
    These initial quotes that are selected are an attempt to frame the issue out, before getting to the heart of the issue.

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    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    What most people mean by free will is the idea that man is by nature neutral and therefore able to choose either good or evil.
    I don't know anyone who believes that. Plus, to say "most people" is a pretty broad assumption that moves your statement from the realm of potential fact to speculation.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    Athanasius


    When we look at any one topic...it is important to set a boundry or a fence, before trying to solve the puzzle.

    When we are speaking of the will.....we are not necessarily speaking about the ability to choose....or many other rabbit trails.
    These initial quotes that are selected are an attempt to frame the issue out, before getting to the heart of the issue.
    If I can define the words "free will" I can win the argument. Its called straw man debating.

    But that said, I agree it needs to be fleshed out. I think you may find that few people here will likely agree with your definition of "free will". Most people here are more likely to define "free will" as the ability to choose or decide and not necessarily the ability to carry out that choice.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    I will bet the Non-answer to this will be that God only directs the steps of the elect
    Preterition in the word of the day Slug. Basically it means that God turned His head. Which is confusing when the doctrine is based on God's total sovereignty over every choice of man.

  13. #13

    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    (Deu 30:19 KJV) I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

    ::

    (Josh 24:15 KJV) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

    ::

    (Isa 7:14 KJV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    (Isa 7:15 KJV) Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

    (Isa 7:16 KJV) For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.


    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    pt2;
    6]What most people mean by free will is the idea that man is by nature neutral and therefore able to choose either good or evil.
    This simply is not true. The human will and the whole of human nature is bent to ONLY evil CONTINUALLY Jeremiah asked, “Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots’? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil” (Jer 13:23). It is impossible. It is contrary to nature Thus do men desperately need the supernatural transformation of their natures, else their wills are enslaved to choosing evil.

  14. #14

    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    Dear Bro. Chad:

    Please do not quote the Old Testament. As you may know from following this thread, only Jeremiah and Romans 8 may be quoted.

    Nah.

    Great post.

  15. #15

    Re: The Myth of Free Will...by Walter Chantry.....Free will a slave...By CHS

    pt3;
    THE MYTH OF SPIRITUAL FREEDOM
    Nevertheless many assert that the human will makes the ultimate choice of spiritual life or spiritual death. They say that here the will is altogether free to choose eternal life offered in Jesus Christ or to reject it. It is said that God will give a new heart to all who choose by the power of their own free will to receive Jesus Christ.

    1] Paul tells us that the mind with which we were born is hostile to God (Rom 8:7). How can the will escape the influence of human nature which was born with a violent enmity to God? It would be insane for the will to choose peace when every bone and drop of blood cries out for rebellion.

    2]
    Then too, receiving Jesus means to welcome Him as a KING. It means choosing to obey His every command, to confess His right of rule and to worship before His throne.
    But the human mind, emotions, and desires all cry out, “We will not have this man to reign over us”(Luke 19:14). If my whole being hates His truth, hates His rule and hates peace with God, how can my will be responsible for receiving Jesus? How can such a sinner have faith?

    3]It is not man’s will but God’s GRACE that must be thanked for giving a sinner a new heart.

    Unless God changes the heart, creates a new spirit of peace, truthfulness, and submission. man will not choose to receive Jesus Christ and eternal life in Him

    4]
    A new heart must he given before a man can believe, or else the human will is hopelessly enslaved to evil human nature even in the matter of conversion. Jesus said. “Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye MUST be born again” (John 3:7). Unless you are, you will never see His kingdom

    5]Read John 1:12 & 13. It says that those who believe on Jesus have been “born, not of the will of man, but of God.” As your will is not responsible for your coming into this world, it is not responsible for the new birth.

    6]
    It is your Creator who must be thanked for your life, and if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation (II Cor 5:17). Who ever chose to be created? When Lazarus rose from the dead, he then could choose to answer the call of Christ, but he could not choose to come to life.

    7]
    Faith is the first act of a will made new by the Holy Spirit. Receiving Christ is an act of man just as breathing is, but God must first give life.

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