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Thread: The Day of our Deliverance

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    The Day of our Deliverance

    Isaiah 49:8-13 The Lord says: At the time of My favour, I will answer you, on the Day of Deliverance I will come to your aid. Your destiny is to be a light to the nations and you will restore the Land. Those in exile will go free, they will find a good Land to live in. My people will neither hunger or thirst, the sun will not distress them. I will guide them along level pathways, My people – coming from the North, the West and the South lands. Shout for joy, sing songs of triumph, for the Lord has comforted His people and has pity on them, in their distress.
    Hosea 2:14-23 Now, I shall call My people and lead them into an empty place. I will encourage and strengthen them, there the Land will be restored, its vineyards and pastures. They will respond with thanksgiving and joy, calling Me “Husband”, as I will betroth Myself to them forever. I will tame the wild beasts and sweep all weapons of war off the face of the earth, so My people can live without fear. The Land will be productive and My righteous people will be My new sowing in My Holy Land. I will say: “You are My people”. They will say: “You are our God”. Romans 9:24-26
    Isaiah 12:1-4 On that Day, we will praise You, though You were angry with us, now You comfort us. We are confident and unafraid. The Lord is our Deliverer, our refuge and defense. With joy, we will give thanks to Him for what He had done for us.
    Zephaniah 3:19-20 When that time comes I shall deal with all those who oppress you. I shall rescue the lost and gather the dispersed, I shall win for My people renown from all the world. [The second Exodus; of every true Christian, Isaiah 66:18-21]

    Isaiah 30:26-30 The sun will shine with seven times its normal strength, on the Day the Lord will save His people. He comes from afar, His anger blazing and His doom heavy. Like a devouring fire, He sieves out the nations for destruction.
    Isaiah 66:16The Lord will judge with fire, His sword will test all mankind, many will die.
    Habakkuk 3:13-14 You go out to save Your people, You shatter the wicked, they are swept away. [The Judgement of fire, prophesied over 70 times, the Sixth Seal Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath]

    Psalm 27:11-13 Teach me Your ways, do not give me up to enemies. Lead me by a level path, for I know that I will see the great deeds of God in the Land of the living
    Psalm 37:39-40 Deliverance for the righteous comes from the Lord, He is their refuge in times of trouble. He will help and deliver them, keep them safe from their enemies, because they seek shelter in Him. Acts 2:21
    Jeremiah 31:2-3 At that time, I shall be the God of all the Israelites [Christians; Galatians 6:16] and they will be My people – a people that have escaped the sword and found favour in the desert. The Lord protected them, from afar He appeared to them, [2 Thess 1:10] He maintains His unfailing love for them, as from times past. [Not the Return, as yet]
    Isaiah 14:32 The answer for the messengers is: The Lord has established Zion and in the Land there is a refuge for His people. [Every righteous Christian, Rev 5:9-10]
    1 Peter 4:7-19 The end of the age is upon us, therefore we must lead righteous lives. Use the gifts you have in service to others. Do not be terrified by the fiery ordeal, which comes to test everyone, judgement is coming, those who continue in their faith and entrust their souls to Him – their Maker will not fail them.
    Reference: Revised English Bible. Some verses abridged.

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Psalm 40:4-11 Happy is the one who puts his trust in the Lord and keeps away from arrogant and deceitful people.
    Say to the Lord: Here I am, my desire is to do Your will. Your Law is in my heart and I proclaim God’s faithfulness and His saving power to all the congregation. You Lord, will not withhold Your tender care for me, may Your love and truth forever keep me safe.


    Psalm 40:12-17 Now Lord, we are poor and needy, troubles and misfortune assail us from every side and courage fails us. Let all those who seek our downfall be turned back in disgrace. Let all those who think they have got the upper hand, be confounded and put to shame. But let all who seek the truth be jubilant and rejoice in Your saving power, we will forever cry: All glory to the Lord!

    Psalm 43:1-5 Uphold our cause, O God, give judgement for Your people against the godless nations, rescue us from those liars and evil men. For we look to You for refuge, why must we wait so long; oppressed by our foes?
    Send out Your light and truth to guide us, then we will come to the holy Land, to the place of Your altar and we shall praise our Redeemer with gladsome songs. We will wait patiently for Your deliverance, our Lord and Saviour.
    Ref: REB.

    Every person who desires to do the Lord's will, all those who seek the truth, that is: every born again Christian, will be delivered and guided into the holy Land, soon after the Lord's Day of wrath has cleansed it. Jeremiah 31:8-9
    The truth of every faithful Christian going to live in all of the holy Land is confirmed by Paul in Romans 9:24-26....in the very place, you [Christians] will be called the sons of the Living God.

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post

    [...]

    Every person who desires to do the Lord's will, all those who seek the truth, that is: every true Christian, will be delivered and guided into the holy Land, soon after the Lord's Day of wrath has cleansed it. Jeremiah 31:8-9
    You forgot to mention they first have to get themselves circumcised:

    Isa 52:1 « Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. »

    Aristarkos

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Isaiah 49:8-13 [I]...

    [The second Exodus; of every true Christian, Isaiah 66:18-21]

    ...
    • The scriptures you have posted refer to Israel. The Church was NOT revealed to the prophets of Old (Eph.3:1-9). Isaiah could not possibly have meant the Church.
    • The Bible does not recognize a "TRUE" Christian. One is either a Christian by faith in Jesus Christ and rebirth, or he/she is NOT a Christian. Even in the parable of the Wheat and the Tares, the Wheat is Wheat and stays Wheat, and the Tares, though they look like Wheat at first, are Tares - another species - and they remain Tares to the end.
    • The Two postings you have made with those wonderful verses are all aimed at Israel's future restoration. Even in New Jerusalem, the consummation of God's original purpose in the ages to come, Israel remain separate from the Church (Gates and Walls).

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    You forgot to mention they first have to get themselves circumcised:

    Isa 52:1 « Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. »

    Aristarkos
    Circumcision is now just in a spiritual sense, of the heart. Paul makes that abundantly clear in Romans 2:24-29....The real Jew is one who is inwardly a Jew, an Israelite of God, his circumcision is of God.....

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    • The scriptures you have posted refer to Israel. The Church was NOT revealed to the prophets of Old (Eph.3:1-9). Isaiah could not possibly have meant the Church.
    • The Bible does not recognize a "TRUE" Christian. One is either a Christian by faith in Jesus Christ and rebirth, or he/she is NOT a Christian. Even in the parable of the Wheat and the Tares, the Wheat is Wheat and stays Wheat, and the Tares, though they look like Wheat at first, are Tares - another species - and they remain Tares to the end.
    • The Two postings you have made with those wonderful verses are all aimed at Israel's future restoration. Even in New Jerusalem, the consummation of God's original purpose in the ages to come, Israel remain separate from the Church (Gates and Walls).
    You contradict much New Testament teaching with your assertion of a separation between born again believers and the Israel of God. Gal 6:16
    Sure; the Jewish State of Israel and the established Church are separate and will remain so, but there is only one people of God, John 17:20-23 +
    It is them, every Christian believer from every race, tribe, nation and language, that will occupy all of the holy Land, as prophesied above, in the last few years before Jesus Returns and thru the Millennium. THAT is our destiny and our great privilege!

    What the OT prophets meant was the continuation of God's holy people; from the Patriarchs, to the congregation in the desert, to the 3000 at Pentecost, to todays faithful Christians - be they Jew or Gentile. Isaiah 56:1-8, 1 Peter 1:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10
    If you have Biblical proof of a special redemption for the current inhabitants of Israel, please provide it. I take no cognizance of commentators or peoples opinions and theories made to suit their beliefs.

  7. #7

    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Opening posts (#1 & #2) confuse the day of deliverance with other days.

    Isaiah 49: 9-13 prophecies about the day of deliverance, the day of salvation and another day. Those prophecies apply generally both to Israel and the Church.

    Note that the Church is an integral part of the Israel of God, just as are the congregation (assembly) of saints and the gathering of the people.

    A faithful receives and obeys the gift of faith. Such a faithful is then raised up to become a Christian who believes and obeys the truth unto salvation. Believing the truth, not necessarily the receipt of faith, makes a believer.

    So, all Christians are true. Any person who indulges deceit is neither a believer nor a Christian.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Thanks, Glorious. You understand about who are real Christians and they are the Israel of God. Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:16
    Note that in #1 & #2, Israel is not mentioned, those prophesies are all about the blessings God will bestow on His righteous people; plainly Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b, Revelation 5:9-10, God has no [ethnic] favorites!

    Re the Day of Deliverance for God's people: this Day is also the terrible Day that the Lord will punish His enemies.

    Your God comes to save you, in His vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 35:4b

    In the next prophesied event; the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, He will judge and punish His enemies, but also He will protect and save His faithful believing Christian people.
    Two prophesies specifically say that He will save those who call upon His Name; Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:21. Many others detail how He will do this:
    Isaiah 30:26…on the Day the Lord will heal His people….The sun will shine with seven times its normal strength, like seven days in one. A CME is what the Lord will use on His Day of wrath. It will literally cause all the vividly prophesied effects of that Day.
    Psalms 23:4 If I walk through a valley of darkness, I will fear no harm, for You are with me.
    Isaiah 41:3 For I the Lord, will hold your right hand, saying: fear not, I will help you.
    Isaiah 43:2b…walk thru fire and you will not be scorched, thru flames and not be burned.
    Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you who obey Him, it may be that you will be sheltered on the Day of the Lord’s anger.
    Proverbs 3:25 Do not be afraid when fools are frightened or when destruction overtakes the wicked, for the Lord will be at your side on that Day.
    Daniel 3:25 An angel protects the 3 men in the furnace, an example of the Lord’s protection.
    Psalms 9:10 The Lord does not abandon those who seek Him and trust in Him.

    1 Corinthians 10:13.... God will not test you beyond your powers and when the test comes, He will provide a way out to enable you to endure.
    2 Peter 2:9 God knows how to rescue the godly from their trials.
    Psalms 18:3 I shall call upon the Lord, then I will be made safe.
    Psalms 31:23-24 The Lord protects the faithful. Be strong, all you whose hope is in the Lord.
    Zechariah 9:15-16 The Lord of hosts will protect His people...On that Day, He will save them, like a flock, for they are precious to Him. Isaiah 61:10 Let us rejoice in the Lord, for He has robed me in deliverance, clothed me in victory....
    Psalms 37:18-19 The Lord watches over the righteous, when times are bad, they will not be distressed.
    Psalms 64:10 The righteous rejoice, their refuge in the Lord.
    Job 22:30 He will deliver the innocent, because their hands are pure.
    Isaiah 51:16 I keep you covered under the shelter of My hand.
    Psalms 97:10-12 He keeps His loyal servants safe and rescues them from the wicked.
    Jeremiah 17:7-8 Blessed is anyone who trusts in the Lord, they will be like trees by a stream, when the heat comes it has nothing to fear.
    Nahum 1:7 The Lord is a sure protection in times of trouble and cares for all those who make Him their refuge.
    Psalms 60:4-5 To those who fear the Lord, He will show the way to escape from trouble.
    Psalms 37:9 For evildoers will be destroyed, those who trust in the Lord will prosper in the Land.
    Isaiah 26:20 On that Day, I will come to your aid.
    2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 ...to give you relief when the Lord Jesus comes in blazing fire.
    Ecclesiasticus 34:13-17 Those who fear the Lord will live, for their trust in Him can keep them safe. The Lord keeps watch over those who love Him, He is their shield and support, a shelter from the scorching wind and the heat of the sun. He raises their spirits and gives healing, life and blessings.
    Reference: Revised English Bible.

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    You contradict much New Testament teaching with your assertion of a separation between born again believers and the Israel of God. Gal 6:16
    Sure; the Jewish State of Israel and the established Church are separate and will remain so, but there is only one people of God, John 17:20-23 +
    It is them, every Christian believer from every race, tribe, nation and language, that will occupy all of the holy Land, as prophesied above, in the last few years before Jesus Returns and thru the Millennium. THAT is our destiny and our great privilege!

    What the OT prophets meant was the continuation of God's holy people; from the Patriarchs, to the congregation in the desert, to the 3000 at Pentecost, to todays faithful Christians - be they Jew or Gentile. Isaiah 56:1-8, 1 Peter 1:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10
    If you have Biblical proof of a special redemption for the current inhabitants of Israel, please provide it. I take no cognizance of commentators or peoples opinions and theories made to suit their beliefs.
    If you read Zachariah's prophecy of Luke 1:67-79 you can at once see that Israel's "salvation" is to do with their Land and their enemies and their service to the Lord. There is no mention of faith, rebirth, baptism, transformation and being the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Israel, born of the flesh via Isaac, have a totally different destiny to the Church, which according to Ephesians 2:15 is taken OUT OF the nation of Israel and OUT OF the nations ("the TWAIN") and is a NEW MAN where ethnicity is NOT recognized (Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:11).

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    I do not wish this thread to become a Israel/ Church argument.
    Suffice to say that it is God's holy people who are living in the holy Land when the Anti-Christ conquers them, as per Zechariah 14:1-2, Daniel 11:30-31
    Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 both say that he conquers God's holy people. Rev 12 says that some Christians will go to a place of safety and others will face persecution.
    The current citizens of Israel do not qualify as God's holy people and there is no scripture that proves that God will forgive them, but many say how He will destroy them . Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5, +
    Psalm 69:32-36 makes it plain that it will be the humble people who seek God, serve Him and love His Name, who will inherit Zion. Confirmed by Romans 9:24-26....in the very place, [Zion] they [Christians[ will be called the sons of the Living God.

    It is a serious mis-interpretation of Ephesians 2:15, to make that verse mean what you say. The salvation of Jesus COMBINED Jew and Gentile into one , all believers in Jesus. But those Jews who refuse His offer, are doomed. Luke 19:27, Revelation 3:9

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I do not wish this thread to become a Israel/ Church argument.
    Suffice to say that it is God's holy people who are living in the holy Land when the Anti-Christ conquers them, as per Zechariah 14:1-2, Daniel 11:30-31
    Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 both say that he conquers God's holy people. Rev 12 says that some Christians will go to a place of safety and others will face persecution.
    The current citizens of Israel do not qualify as God's holy people and there is no scripture that proves that God will forgive them, but many say how He will destroy them . Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5, +
    Psalm 69:32-36 makes it plain that it will be the humble people who seek God, serve Him and love His Name, who will inherit Zion. Confirmed by Romans 9:24-26....in the very place, [Zion] they [Christians[ will be called the sons of the Living God.

    It is a serious mis-interpretation of Ephesians 2:15, to make that verse mean what you say. The salvation of Jesus COMBINED Jew and Gentile into one , all believers in Jesus. But those Jews who refuse His offer, are doomed. Luke 19:27, Revelation 3:9
    Perhaps you should do a thorough study of Paul's letters, he explains the road of salvation in detail. Through rebirth (regeneration), sonship to the perfect man of Ephesians. He also warns the gentiles not to boast:

    Rom 11:17 — 21 « And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. »

    Appropriating Israels' heritage is boasting and shows one does not rightly divide the Word of truth. That is really a shame because the higher blessings stay hidden for those who do.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I do not wish this thread to become a Israel/ Church argument.
    Suffice to say that it is God's holy people who are living in the holy Land when the Anti-Christ conquers them, as per Zechariah 14:1-2, Daniel 11:30-31
    Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 both say that he conquers God's holy people. Rev 12 says that some Christians will go to a place of safety and others will face persecution.
    The current citizens of Israel do not qualify as God's holy people and there is no scripture that proves that God will forgive them, but many say how He will destroy them . Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5, +
    Psalm 69:32-36 makes it plain that it will be the humble people who seek God, serve Him and love His Name, who will inherit Zion. Confirmed by Romans 9:24-26....in the very place, [Zion] they [Christians[ will be called the sons of the Living God.

    It is a serious mis-interpretation of Ephesians 2:15, to make that verse mean what you say. The salvation of Jesus COMBINED Jew and Gentile into one , all believers in Jesus. But those Jews who refuse His offer, are doomed. Luke 19:27, Revelation 3:9
    I do believe your OP automatically brings in the discussion of Israel versus the Church. You have presented a mass of Old Testament scriptures concerning deliverance (as your title suggests), and then made them to apply to the Christian. As per my first posting I reiterate that the Old Testament scriptures pertain to Israel, and that the Church was not yet revealed. The Church is a NEW MAN taken OUT OF the nation of Israel and OUT OF the nations. And in it ethnicity is dissolved. A top Jew like Paul is no more a Jew in the Church than an Aborigine who converts is an Australian.

    The whole New Testament CONTRASTS Israel and the Church. It does not mingle them. It was Israel which rejected their Messiah and crucified Him. This same Israel persecuted and murdered the disciples of Jesus - the Church. Those of Israel who believed in Jesus are not classed as Jews anymore. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul, once a leading Jew, of the Pharisees, says;

    1 "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
    2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
    3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
    4 Who are Israelites
    ; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
    5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."


    Paul declares Israelites (v.4) to be his brethren, his kinsmen ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. And these Israelites, who have the Covenants, Promises, Law and Temple Service, and who produced the Man Jesus, exist till today - though mainly in dispersion. It is these same "kinsmen according to the flesh" that are beneficiaries of the PROMISES. And those scriptures you produced from Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea and Habakkuk in your first two postings ARE THE PROMISES in verse 4 above. And Paul CONTRASTS them to himself.

    Galatians 6:16 shows this CONTRAST.
    1. First, the word "and" is a CONJUNCTION. A conjunction shows two or more different things. "Bread AND butter". "Oil AND vinegar dressing". Thus, those who "walk according to the rule of the New Creature" (v.15) are ONE ENTITY AND the Israel of God IS ANOTHER, just as "peace" and "mercy" are two different things joined by an "and". If the Holy Spirit wanted to make them the same, all He had to do was leave out the "AND". It would then have read; "And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, upon the Israel of God." But it reads, "And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, AND mercy, AND upon the Israel of God."
    2. Second, the whole Book of Galatians CONTRASTS those of the Law and those of the Holy Spirit. Thus, Galatians 6:16 is IN CONTEXT of the whole of Galatians.
    3. Third, the whole New Testament CONTRAST Israel of the flesh and the Church - born of the Spirit.
    4. Fourth, in Romans Chapters 9 to 11, Israel is CONTRASTED to the Church and its restoration is predicted. Since a Tree in Parable shows a king and his kingdom (Judg.9:8-15; Ezekiel 31; Daniel 4), we see Israel restored, NOT TO THE CHURCH (or visa versa), but to the KINGDOM. That is, when Christ returns and sets up His abode in Jerusalem, Israel will surround the their King in safety and blessing as servants of the KINGDOM.

    The evidence is not overwhelming. It is EXCLUSIVE. Without exception Israel is one entity, with their future, and the Church is another entity with their future. Even on the New Earth AFTER the Millennium, Israel are the gates of New Jerusalem and the Church is the foundation and walls of New Jerusalem. The separation of Israel and the Church is sustained till the end of the Bible.

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Wormwood and Aristarkos, I could refute you, but you are both locked into the Two Peoples, Two Promises theory, an immutable tenet of the 'rapture to heaven theory'. With the 2P,2P idea, Jesus refutes you: John 17:20-23, John 10:19, and the Apostles: Ephesians 4:4-6, 1 Corinthians 12:12-13, +
    In #10, I quoted Romans 9:24-26. The next verse; Romans 9:27 says that only a remnant of Israel, the Jews, will be saved. That Messianic remnant will join with their Christian brethren, the spiritual Christian Israel, as per Ezekiel 37 and Jeremiah 50:4-5.

    On the Day of Deliverance, the Prophetic Word tells us how the Lord will save and protect His people during His terrible Day of wrath, the soon to happen Sixth Seal judgement of the nations. Rev 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-16, Habakkuk 3:12, +
    Then we will be gathered and will migrate into all of the holy Land. Psalms 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16 and Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 35:1-10 are some of the best prophesies about this. We Christians are the Lord's people, His chosen; John 15:18, 1 Peter 2:8-10, and we are the people; the nation, who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43. We will, at last; be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Acts 13:47
    So, basically there is no need for anyone, other than the 2 Witnesses to go to heaven, Rev 11:12 The whole idea of a rapture removal of Christians to heaven, is not part of God's plan for His people. Therefore, a body change is not necessary or logical, before the final wrap up and then all those whose names are written in the Book of Life, will receive immortality and be with God for Eternity, when God and therefore: heaven will be on earth. Rev 21:1-4

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Wormwood and Aristarkos, I could refute you, but you are both locked into the Two Peoples, Two Promises theory, an immutable tenet of the 'rapture to heaven theory'. With the 2P,2P idea, Jesus refutes you: John 17:20-23, John 10:19, and the Apostles: Ephesians 4:4-6, 1 Corinthians 12:12-13,
    In Rev 19, the church is already raptured and having its feast and then joins the armies of heaven to attack the beast and his armies in Israel. At that moment the church has already been gathered (into the heavens for the heavenly feast) yet Israel has NOT YET been gathered or saved from the warfare in Israel. At that stage none of the OT prophecies about the salvation from Israel's enemies are fulfilled, Jesus then conquers the beast, and regathers Israel.

    Two destinies, two Israels.
    1) Israel of faith (saved Jew and Gentile are resurrected to eternal life)
    2) Ethnic Israel, surviving Jews are regathered to blessed mortal lives in Israel as described in Isaiah 65.

    Regarding your proof verses, yes all who are saved are one in the spirit (Israel of faith). Yet still ethnic Israel has its own destiny into the next age as does every nation have their destinies after the second coming. There are many verses about the destiny of individual nations after the day of the Lord, some good destiny, some bad destiny.

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    Re: The Day of our Deliverance

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Wormwood and Aristarkos, I could refute you, but you are both locked into the Two Peoples, Two Promises theory, an immutable tenet of the 'rapture to heaven theory'. With the 2P,2P idea, Jesus refutes you: John 17:20-23, John 10:19, and the Apostles: Ephesians 4:4-6, 1 Corinthians 12:12-13, +
    In #10, I quoted Romans 9:24-26. The next verse; Romans 9:27 says that only a remnant of Israel, the Jews, will be saved. That Messianic remnant will join with their Christian brethren, the spiritual Christian Israel, as per Ezekiel 37 and Jeremiah 50:4-5.

    On the Day of Deliverance, the Prophetic Word tells us how the Lord will save and protect His people during His terrible Day of wrath, the soon to happen Sixth Seal judgement of the nations. Rev 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-16, Habakkuk 3:12, +
    Then we will be gathered and will migrate into all of the holy Land. Psalms 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16 and Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 35:1-10 are some of the best prophesies about this. We Christians are the Lord's people, His chosen; John 15:18, 1 Peter 2:8-10, and we are the people; the nation, who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43. We will, at last; be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Acts 13:47
    So, basically there is no need for anyone, other than the 2 Witnesses to go to heaven, Rev 11:12 The whole idea of a rapture removal of Christians to heaven, is not part of God's plan for His people. Therefore, a body change is not necessary or logical, before the final wrap up and then all those whose names are written in the Book of Life, will receive immortality and be with God for Eternity, when God and therefore: heaven will be on earth. Rev 21:1-4
    All your scriptures that come from Isaiah refer to Israel of the time before the captivity. It is in Isaiah 1:1; "The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah." Ezekiel refers to (1) God removing His glory from the Temple in Jerusalem so that Nebuchadnezzar could not defile Him, (2) Israel's chastisement, and (3) Israel's recovery and duties in the Millennium with Emmanuel living in their midst. It does not once address the Church. But even more pertinent is your statement ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    "Therefore, a body change is not necessary or logical, before the final wrap up ... ."
    Let us see what scriptures says to that. In 1 Corinthians 15:23-53 ...
    verse 23 says that we will be resurrected at our Lord's coming, not at the end of the Millennium
    verse 35 asks what body they receive
    verse 36 to 49 describe the various bodies that are given in resurrection
    THEN verse 50 says; "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.". Thus, a NEW BODY WITHOUT BLOOD IS REQUIRED
    THEN verses 51-53 say;
    51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."


    This must all happen;
    1. At Christ's coming
    2. As a requirement to enter the Millennial Kingdom which starts at Christ's coming
    3. To be worthy of the incorruptible Kingdom

    The CHANGE is VITAL.

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