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Thread: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

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    The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    I highlighted the word "built" and bolded the work FOR as most are understanding that this image is OF the beast and reflects evil. The image is however not OF the beast which is very important to understand. The folks on earth believe they are worshiping not a beast but God himself. Thus as in time past they build a temple to worship.

    Fire called down from heaven

    This is not just some majic trick. This fire which comes down from above then goes into this temple whereby then an audible voice will speak from the holy of hollies. Sound familiar.

    2 CHRON 7
    1 Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the Lord filled the house.
    2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the Lord, because the glory of the Lord had filled the Lord's house.
    3 And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the Lord upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshipped, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

    Same thing happens in Rev 13 however as deception. Fire comes down into the house the image (temple) then speaks from the throne and all the world worships the beast whom they think is the almighty God. And then the beast gives out his MARK as God will do the same to his followers.

    He causes the world to worship the beast

    12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    He calls fire down from heaven

    13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

    He deceives them to build the image

    14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

    He cause the image to speak (fire)

    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    He give out his mark

    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    Now when Satan is loosened out of the pit after the 3.5 years and indwells the second beast (little horn) he then will stand in this holy place probably the 1290th day leaving 45 days to remain ie his little season which then brings about the vials and wrath of God.

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

    (whoso readeth, let him understand

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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I highlighted the word "built" and bolded the work FOR as most are understanding that this image is OF the beast and reflects evil. The image is however not OF the beast which is very important to understand. The folks on earth believe they are worshiping not a beast but God himself. Thus as in time past they build a temple to worship.

    ...
    Revelation 13:14-15;
    14 "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."


    The grammar is clear. The image is TO the Beast for homage, and the image that was made was OF the Beast in likeness.

    Added to this, the Type of this Nebuchadnezzar, the first Beast, made an IMAGE and caused all to bow and worship under pain of death. The image was real as the measurements are given.

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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I highlighted the word "built" and bolded the work FOR as most are understanding that this image is OF the beast and reflects evil. The image is however not OF the beast which is very important to understand. The folks on earth believe they are worshiping not a beast but God himself. Thus as in time past they build a temple to worship.

    Fire called down from heaven

    This is not just some majic trick. This fire which comes down from above then goes into this temple whereby then an audible voice will speak from the holy of hollies. Sound familiar.

    2 CHRON 7
    1 Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the Lord filled the house.
    2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the Lord, because the glory of the Lord had filled the Lord's house.
    3 And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the Lord upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshipped, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

    Same thing happens in Rev 13 however as deception. Fire comes down into the house the image (temple) then speaks from the throne and all the world worships the beast whom they think is the almighty God. And then the beast gives out his MARK as God will do the same to his followers.

    He causes the world to worship the beast

    12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    He calls fire down from heaven

    13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

    He deceives them to build the image

    14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

    He cause the image to speak (fire)

    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    He give out his mark

    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    Now when Satan is loosened out of the pit after the 3.5 years and indwells the second beast (little horn) he then will stand in this holy place probably the 1290th day leaving 45 days to remain ie his little season which then brings about the vials and wrath of God.

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

    (whoso readeth, let him understand
    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    1.) Confirm = gabar 1396 (Hebrew Word) meaning to be strong, to prevail or to act insolently.
    2.) Oblation = minchah 4503 (Hebrew) A tribute or an offering
    3.) Overspreading = kanaph 3671 (Hebrew) An edge, a Wing or Quarter (of a building) a pinnacle.
    4.) Abominations = shiqquwts 8251 (Hebrew) Meaning, Disgusting, Filthy, Idolatrous or AN IDOL !!
    5.) Desolate = shamem 8074 (Hebrew) Meaning to Stun, Grown Numb, to Stupefy, or to Devastate !!

    So looking at these original Hebrew word Translations, what is this verse (Daniel 9:27) really telling us? Does it match up with other end time events ? Lets delve into it !! Basically this is what I get from verse 27.
    Daniel 9:27 The Anti-Christ will FORCE and Agreement (Covenant means agreement) on Israel and others, probably the Muslims. He does so Insolently, his agenda Prevails, he forces this deal. Then after 3 1/2 years he stops allowing the Oblation or Tribute, (I think to Jesus, who Israel accepts as their Messiah before the Day of the Lord as it says in Malachi 4:5-6) by Israel unto their God, the False Prophet places an IDOL in a Wing or a pinnacle of the TEMPLE and demands all people to worship this IDOL or else they must die. THIS STUNS/SHOCKS OR DEVASTATES Israel, then they heed Jesus' words, they Flee unto the Wilderness where they are protected by God for 1260 Days, because Elijah turned them back to the Messiah (Zechariah 12:10 and 13:1) before the Day of the Lord.

    Daniel 9:27 shorter version........The Anti-Christ will force a Peace Deal on Israel, in the Middle of this deal he will renege on is deal, and order the False Prophet to place an Image of the Beast (IDOL) in the Temple, and demand all mankind to worship this Image. This Stuns Israel, devastates them.

    Do further scriptures agree with this account ?

    Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


    IT MATCHES to a tee !!!

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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Revelation 13:14-15;
    14 "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."


    The grammar is clear. The image is TO the Beast for homage, and the image that was made was OF the Beast in likeness.

    Added to this, the Type of this Nebuchadnezzar, the first Beast, made an IMAGE and caused all to bow and worship under pain of death. The image was real as the measurements are given.
    Do you really think if the image was after the beast's likeness (evil ect) the world would follow and worship him?? LOL. Remember the deception will be so great that if possible it will deceive you! Would you bow down to an image likened after a beast?

    Rather this whole event in a counterfeit. A city of gold and jewels and on and on.... he is not coming across to the world as evil or a beast rather as GOD and will set a system likened after GOD.

    16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

    How do you think New Jerusalem is clothed. The same.

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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Do you really think if the image was after the beast's likeness (evil ect) the world would follow and worship him?? LOL. Remember the deception will be so great that if possible it will deceive you! Would you bow down to an image likened after a beast?

    Rather this whole event in a counterfeit. A city of gold and jewels and on and on.... he is not coming across to the world as evil or a beast rather as GOD and will set a system likened after GOD.

    16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

    How do you think New Jerusalem is clothed. The same.
    1) "Likeness" means to LOOK like the BEAST, not BE EVIL Like... IMAGE in itself means a likeness of something. However i'm not saying the Image will not speak evil things...

    2) I see a big problem with matching Jerusalem with Babylon... When ever has Jerusalem been the greatest OCEANIC SHIPPING Merchant city in the World? That is preposterous...

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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    1.) Confirm = gabar 1396 (Hebrew Word) meaning to be strong, to prevail or to act insolently.
    2.) Oblation = minchah 4503 (Hebrew) A tribute or an offering
    3.) Overspreading = kanaph 3671 (Hebrew) An edge, a Wing or Quarter (of a building) a pinnacle.
    4.) Abominations = shiqquwts 8251 (Hebrew) Meaning, Disgusting, Filthy, Idolatrous or AN IDOL !!
    5.) Desolate = shamem 8074 (Hebrew) Meaning to Stun, Grown Numb, to Stupefy, or to Devastate !!

    Daniel 9:27 The Anti-Christ will FORCE and Agreement (Covenant means agreement) on Israel and others, probably the Muslims.
    He in the verse though out is the Lord.

    Note the he needs to be the same in each instance. So then we would have the AC making it desolate due to his own abominations!! Rather input Lord and it works perfectly.

    27 And he (AC) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (AC) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (AC) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    27 And he (Lord) shall confirm the covenant (Abrahamic) with many (remnant of Israel) for one week (literal one week feast of tabernacles) : and in the midst of the week he (Lord) shall cause the sacrifice (sacrifice for the feast) and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (Lord) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (at the second coming), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (judgement GWT) .

    The covenant confirmed is the Abrahamic

    We need not to have to look further than the same chapter for the answer. What covenant has Satan made previously he now is confirming? Israel has transgressed and per the law of Moses curse has come upon them however Daniel is interceding for Israel to still keep the covenant promised. which God will ultimately do in the end times with the 144,000.

    4 And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

    He does so Insolently, his agenda Prevails, he forces this deal. Then after 3 1/2 years he stops allowing the Oblation or Tribute, (I think to Jesus, who Israel accepts as their Messiah before the Day of the Lord as it says in Malachi 4:5-6) by Israel unto their God, the False Prophet places an IDOL in a Wing or a pinnacle of the TEMPLE and demands all people to worship this IDOL or else they must die. THIS STUNS/SHOCKS OR DEVASTATES Israel, then they heed Jesus' words, they Flee unto the Wilderness where they are protected by God for 1260 Days, because Elijah turned them back to the Messiah (Zechariah 12:10 and 13:1) before the Day of the Lord.

    Daniel 9:27 shorter version........The Anti-Christ will force a Peace Deal on Israel, in the Middle of this deal he will renege on is deal, and order the False Prophet to place an Image of the Beast (IDOL) in the Temple, and demand all mankind to worship this Image. This Stuns Israel, devastates them.

    Do further scriptures agree with this account ?

    Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


    IT MATCHES to a tee !!!
    Sorry but your conclusion is set up on an incorrect premise. I too when starting out believed as you however further studies and the Lord's guidance i was able to see the error of the stance. Actually this whole prophesy has nothing to do with the church and the first advent. It is about the promise of Israel fulfilled which will occur when Christ returns the second time. In addition, this prophesy is a literal 70 weeks and not to be somehow converted to years. This conversion is the greatest gaff committed when interpreting scripture. It is done because it could not be rationalize otherwise.

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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    1) "Likeness" means to LOOK like the BEAST, not BE EVIL Like... IMAGE in itself means a likeness of something. However i'm not saying the Image will not speak evil things...
    Can you show me the verse where it says the image is after the beasts likeness??

    2) I see a big problem with matching Jerusalem with Babylon...
    You might but scripture does not!!!

    Babylon

    Re 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,

    Jerusalem

    Re 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones.

    Re 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls:

    The scarlet and purple would be the linen offerings of the people which would array the city as in times past.

    So there maybe other cities arrayed as such however the BIBLE speaks of only one such city, Jerusalem. Now it should be interesting to note that Satan goes out to counterfeit the city's appearance to match that of Jerusalem, why? Because he is to claim the king of kings whereby Jerusalem is base.

    Question, if you were claiming to be the return of the Messiah where would you set up camp?

    Re 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    The Whore

    The bible has spoken mainly of one such city as a whore, Jerusalem.

    Chapters which relate Jerusalem to being a WHORE.

    Isaiah chapter 1
    Jeremiah chapter 3
    Ezekiel chapter 16
    Hosea chapter 4

    Rev. 17:16 - We see lovers will strip her, this is seen happening to Jerusalem in EZ 16:37.

    Rev. 18: 4 - In addition, God called for “MY PEOPLE” to come out of this city and not be partakers of her sins. This reference is to those you will keep the commandments his people Israel.

    Rev. 18:6 – This woman is rewarded double for her iniquity. This “double” punishment is seen to Jerusalem in Isaiah 4:2 and Jer. 16:18, 17:18.

    Rev. 18:7 - She denies that she is a whore and a widow, Jerusalem is described as a widow in Lam 1:1.

    Rev. 18:22, 23 – We see that the LIGHT OF A CANDLE and the VOICE OF THE BRIDEGROOM and SOUNDS OF MILLSTONES shall be heard no more out from this city. This event is seen occurring to Jerusalem in Jer. 7:34, 16:9, 25:10, 33:11.

    When ever has Jerusalem been the greatest OCEANIC SHIPPING Merchant city in the World? That is preposterous...
    You cant look at old Jerusalem rather the future kingdom will be replicated likened unto the kingdom of God (NEW jerusalem). This will be THE city of the earth at this time all other major cities will be destroyed previously the world has become a wilderness wherein this city sustains all life. This city will be precieved as the kingdom of god on earth!! it will have the same measurements whereby if you take the measurements in Rev 21 and and place it in the area of the middle east. The borders and the land surrounding will be near the sea. Also not that the city itself is not right up against the sea coast.

    The sailors are not in their ships and they are STANDING AFAR OFF CASTING DUST ON THEIR HEADS........

    17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
    18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
    19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Do you really think if the image was after the beast's likeness (evil ect) the world would follow and worship him?? LOL. Remember the deception will be so great that if possible it will deceive you! Would you bow down to an image likened after a beast?

    Rather this whole event in a counterfeit. A city of gold and jewels and on and on.... he is not coming across to the world as evil or a beast rather as GOD and will set a system likened after GOD.

    16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

    How do you think New Jerusalem is clothed. The same.
    It is the student of God's word that must decide what is literal and what is allegory. Revelation 1:1 says, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John." This verse alone shows that the apocalypse (the revealing from heaven) of our Lord Jesus Christ is real but it will be "signified". That is, parts of Revelation are real and parts are "signs" of real things. This same word is used in John 20:30-31:

    30 "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
    31 But these (signs) are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."


    However, every thing in John is true and literal. But if the actions of our Lord Jesus are also "signs" then more information can be gleaned from them. Since the Beast is prophesied in Daniel 9 as a "prince" in verse 26, the same word used for our Lord Jesus in verse 25, then if our Lord Jesus is literal, so is the Beast. Then in 2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4 it is clearly,
    • that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
    • Who opposeth and exalteth himself
    • so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God
    • shewing himself that he is God

    Thus, the evidence of the rest of scripture is that the beast is a man, and then there is no reason to allegorize his "image". Both are literal, just like the Churches that are revealed in the Gospel of Matthew, and the Letters, are the same as the Churches of the first three Chapters of Revelation - LITERAL.

    On the other side, even the most elementary of students will notice that the opening verses of Chapter 18, which you mention above, are allegorical and/or a "sign" simply because the events and descriptions produce absurdities if taken literally. But that does not mean that the seven Churches, the Man Jesus, the angels, the city of Jerusalem and dozens of other things in the Apocalypse are all allegory.

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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    1) "Likeness" means to LOOK like the BEAST, not BE EVIL Like... IMAGE in itself means a likeness of something. However i'm not saying the Image will not speak evil things...

    2) I see a big problem with matching Jerusalem with Babylon... When ever has Jerusalem been the greatest OCEANIC SHIPPING Merchant city in the World? That is preposterous...
    Wasn't the queen of heaven considered to be the mother of the gods in ancient Babylon? A time when all of the people worshiped her.. If we can find a religion that holds to the same belief we have the beast do we not? A modern day Babylon such as the one described in the Revelation..


    Jude
    Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Wasn't the queen of heaven considered to be the mother of the gods in ancient Babylon? A time when all of the people worshiped her.. If we can find a religion that holds to the same belief we have the beast do we not? A modern day Babylon such as the one described in the Revelation..


    Jude
    It may be that Babylon ends up being built from scratch. We wont know, however, look at this...

    Micah 4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem. 9 Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail. 10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the Lord shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.

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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    It may be that Babylon ends up being built from scratch. We wont know, however, look at this...

    Micah 4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem. 9 Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail. 10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the Lord shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.
    i found two images for the queen of heaven one from Egypt and another from Babylon.. I'm pretty sure there are others from the different corners of the world.. All representing the queen of heaven..




    Jude
    Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Originally Posted by ross3421 He in the verse though out is the Lord.

    Note the he needs to be the same in each instance. So then we would have the AC making it desolate due to his own abominations!! Rather input Lord and it works perfectly.

    27 And he (AC) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (AC) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (AC) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    27 And he (Lord) shall confirm the covenant (Abrahamic) with many (remnant of Israel) for one week (literal one week feast of tabernacles) : and in the midst of the week he (Lord) shall cause the sacrifice (sacrifice for the feast) and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (Lord) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (at the second coming), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (judgement GWT) .
    You guys that can not understand these simple scriptures never cease to amaze me. HE...Is the Anti-Christ, and its not ever going to change.


    Now stop being tunnel visioned and look at what DESOLATE MEANS....To SHOCK, STUN. Desolate = shamem 8074 (Hebrew) Meaning to Stun, Grown Numb, to Stupefy, or to Devastate !!

    You act like I made that up. I looked up the actual HEBREW WORD Shamem, do you not understand that? Now you you look it up and see if I am right. I don't care what an ENGLISH DICTIONARY says DESOLATE MEANS !! I am only interested in what SHAMEM means !!!!!!!!!!!!

    So Desolate means he STUNS Israel bu his Actions. Now whether the English Guys placed the wrong word when they put DESOLATE there or not, I DO NOT CARE, I know what SHAMEM....That is the original Hebrew Word, why don't you try using the original word and then looking up what it means. I am baffled, BAFFLED that I get people arguing what an ENGLISH WORD MEANS !! I only care what the Hebrew Word Means. If it was TRANSLATED WRONG, so be it. You are arguing what Desolate means, I am telling you what SHAMEM means. You can't win brother, because you start from an erroneous starting position.

    Now that I have that vent out of the way....It gets me when I tell someone the MEANING of the Hebrew word and they argue what the English word means. Sorry.

    Back to the post...Covenant is not Abrahamic, it means AGREEMENT !! Why do you insist Covenant means HOLY COVENANT? It only means Holy when its with God. When its not a covenant with God its just an AGREEMENT !! Between two Nations.

    One of these days you guys will learn you need to study the root words and stop taking the KJV as the be all and all. No wonder we have such confusion, the English KJV according to you overrules the Hebrew Version.....

  13. #13
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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    You guys that can not understand these simple scriptures never cease to amaze me. HE...Is the Anti-Christ, and its not ever going to change.


    Now stop being tunnel visioned and look at what DESOLATE MEANS....To SHOCK, STUN. Desolate = shamem 8074 (Hebrew) Meaning to Stun, Grown Numb, to Stupefy, or to Devastate !!

    You act like I made that up. I looked up the actual HEBREW WORD Shamem, do you not understand that? Now you you look it up and see if I am right. I don't care what an ENGLISH DICTIONARY says DESOLATE MEANS !! I am only interested in what SHAMEM means !!!!!!!!!!!!

    So Desolate means he STUNS Israel bu his Actions. Now whether the English Guys placed the wrong word when they put DESOLATE there or not, I DO NOT CARE, I know what SHAMEM....That is the original Hebrew Word, why don't you try using the original word and then looking up what it means. I am baffled, BAFFLED that I get people arguing what an ENGLISH WORD MEANS !! I only care what the Hebrew Word Means. If it was TRANSLATED WRONG, so be it. You are arguing what Desolate means, I am telling you what SHAMEM means. You can't win brother, because you start from an erroneous starting position.

    Now that I have that vent out of the way....It gets me when I tell someone the MEANING of the Hebrew word and they argue what the English word means. Sorry.

    Back to the post...Covenant is not Abrahamic, it means AGREEMENT !! Why do you insist Covenant means HOLY COVENANT? It only means Holy when its with God. When its not a covenant with God its just an AGREEMENT !! Between two Nations.

    One of these days you guys will learn you need to study the root words and stop taking the KJV as the be all and all. No wonder we have such confusion, the English KJV according to you overrules the Hebrew Version.....
    You have addressed to main points.
    1. The use of the word "desolate" (Strong's #8074)
    2. The Covenant mentioned in Daniel 9:27

    (1) Although you have indeed laid forth "a" meaning for the word "desolate", you have not taken into consideration the richness of the Hebrew. To fathom the meaning of a Hebrew or Greek word we need not only to see ONE possible meaning, but how the Holy Spirit uses this word in the rest of the Bible. A principle that many successful expositors use is the "principle of first mention". That is, how is this word FIRST used in the Bible. It usually sets the pace for further use in scripture. The first mention of this word in scripture is Leviticus 26:22; "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate."

    It is immediately evident that your use of the word to "stun" is inappropriate. One cannot "stun" a highway". Strong gives the usage numbers as follows: desolate 49 times, astonished 20, desolation 7, waste 5, destroy 3, wondered 2, amazed 1, astonishment 1, miscellaneous translations 4 with a total count of 92 times (Strong's Exhaustive Greek & Hebrew Dictionary). So you have chosen a word "stun" or "amaze" or "astonish" which, although a prolific rendering (20 x), is always connected to the context. This is no way to prove a point in a word study. An image in God's Temple might "astonish" you and I, but what it actually does is replace the true Inhabiter, Jehovah, to be replaced by an idol, which is a NOTHING (1st Cor.8:4). Thus, the Holy of Holies with an idol in it to replace the God Who should be in it, makes it "DESOLATE", like highways without people to travel on them like Leviticus 26:22. It might "stun" and "astonish" the observer like you and I, but it "makes desolate" the actual place - for God will NOT share an Abode with an idol, as 1st Samuel 5:3-4, and the first Chapters of Ezekiel show.

    (2) It is NOT "a" Covenant in Daniel 9:27, but "the" Covenant. Israel, who have the Covenants (Rom.9:4), have only ONE Covenant that is broken, or in tatters - the Covenant of Law of Sinai. The Passover, the Sabbath, the Covenant of Promise with Abraham and the Davidic Covenant have never been called into question EXCEPT that of Law at Sinai (Gal.3:17). No Covenant needs to be "STRENGTHENED" (lit. Heb.) except the Covenant of Law. Why? Because without the Temple ALL the Covenants can be upheld EXCEPT that of the Law. The Covenant of Law needs the Temple (e.g. Deuteronomy 12:5, 11, 21, 14:23-24, 16:2, 6 and 11 26:2). And the context of Daniel 9:27 is that of desecrating the Temple. Thus, the Covenant spoken of in Daniel 9:27, which is to be "confirmed" or "strengthened" is that of Sinai - the Law of Moses.

  14. #14
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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post

    (2) It is NOT "a" Covenant in Daniel 9:27, but "the" Covenant. Israel, who have the Covenants (Rom.9:4), have only ONE Covenant that is broken, or in tatters - the Covenant of Law of Sinai. The Passover, the Sabbath, the Covenant of Promise with Abraham and the Davidic Covenant have never been called into question EXCEPT that of Law at Sinai (Gal.3:17). No Covenant needs to be "STRENGTHENED" (lit. Heb.) except the Covenant of Law. Why? Because without the Temple ALL the Covenants can be upheld EXCEPT that of the Law. The Covenant of Law needs the Temple (e.g. Deuteronomy 12:5, 11, 21, 14:23-24, 16:2, 6 and 11 26:2). And the context of Daniel 9:27 is that of desecrating the Temple. Thus, the Covenant spoken of in Daniel 9:27, which is to be "confirmed" or "strengthened" is that of Sinai - the Law of Moses.
    Amen. All anyone has to do is read the first part of the chapter even those whom incorrectly believe this has anything to do with the first advent. The promise of the covenant will be fulfilled as described later when Christ comes with the eternal kingdom. The "many" are the 144,000. Also note after the realization of the covenant fulfilled in the final week which is a literal week of TABRENACLES (7 days) this remnant will read the law of Moses per custom.



    4 And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
    5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:
    6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.
    7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
    8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.
    9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;
    10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.
    11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
    12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.
    13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

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    Re: The image "built" FOR the beast is the temple wherein the AOD will take place

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    It may be that Babylon ends up being built from scratch. We wont know, however, look at this...

    Micah 4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem. 9 Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail. 10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the Lord shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.
    Is it possible that this "woman" comes forth to the earth before her time? And that the same woman in rev 12 is the same woman in rev 17 which commits fornication? I mean where is mention of the woman being pure before the fornication takes place?

    I believe this is the very case what happens. Examine the characteristics of "Babylon" of Rev 17 NOT to be confused with any other prior Babylon. This Babylon is a mystery, a city which John himself had admiration, a city decked with gold, jewels, precious stones, and much more!!! Where does this city come from?

    What even more of a deception what if a a beast claiming to be God is actually sitting in the city which was to be the same one Christ was to claim? How would anybody be able to discern the truth let alone believe any one who tells them otherwise.....

    Think about it.

    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

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