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Thread: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

  1. #1

    A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    I have written a post that shows how the text of Daniel 9:24-27(70 weeks) can be Chiastically rearranged to arrive at a coherent reconfiguration

    Some conclusions:
    The 70 weeks or 490 years are not contiguous years but the sum of sections of time "cut out" from an overarching time period extending from circa 444BC to the advent of Christ's reign(circa 2000AD). The sections of time in chronological sequence are:

    • The 62 weeks or 434 years (circa 444BC-10BC) begins at the "going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem" and extends to around 10 BC. After this, the Messiah is put to death around 30AD.
    • The 1 week or 7 years (circa 67AD-74AD} roughly corresponds to the First Jewish–Roman War (circa 66AD–74AD); it has a midpoint at the destruction of temple in Jerusalem in the summer of 70AD.
    • The 7 weeks or 49 years ends with the advent of Christ's reign.(circa 2000AD)



    There is also a rather startling take on the nature of the "7 year covenant" and answers to some common questions such as :What is the abomination the causes desolation?

    The full post can be found at http://www.svetasv.com/aa/1002_Daniel_70_weeks.html

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    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by svetasv View Post
    I have written a post that shows how the text of Daniel 9:24-27(70 weeks) can be Chiastically rearranged to arrive at a coherent reconfiguration

    Some conclusions:
    The 70 weeks or 490 years are not contiguous years but the sum of sections of time "cut out" from an overarching time period extending from circa 444BC to the advent of Christ's reign(circa 2000AD). The sections of time in chronological sequence are:

    • The 62 weeks or 434 years (circa 444BC-10BC) begins at the "going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem" and extends to around 10 BC. After this, the Messiah is put to death around 30AD.
    • The 1 week or 7 years (circa 67AD-74AD} roughly corresponds to the First Jewish–Roman War (circa 66AD–74AD); it has a midpoint at the destruction of temple in Jerusalem in the summer of 70AD.
    • The 7 weeks or 49 years ends with the advent of Christ's reign.(circa 2000AD)



    There is also a rather startling take on the nature of the "7 year covenant" and answers to some common questions such as :What is the abomination the causes desolation?

    The full post can be found at http://www.svetasv.com/aa/1002_Daniel_70_weeks.html
    Very interesting and insightful. Thank you.

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    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by svetasv View Post
    I have written a post that shows how the text of Daniel 9:24-27(70 weeks) can be Chiastically rearranged to arrive at a coherent reconfiguration

    Some conclusions:
    The 70 weeks or 490 years are not contiguous years but the sum of sections of time "cut out" from an overarching time period extending from circa 444BC to the advent of Christ's reign(circa 2000AD). The sections of time in chronological sequence are:

    • The 62 weeks or 434 years (circa 444BC-10BC) begins at the "going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem" and extends to around 10 BC. After this, the Messiah is put to death around 30AD.
    • The 1 week or 7 years (circa 67AD-74AD} roughly corresponds to the First Jewish–Roman War (circa 66AD–74AD); it has a midpoint at the destruction of temple in Jerusalem in the summer of 70AD.
    • The 7 weeks or 49 years ends with the advent of Christ's reign.(circa 2000AD)



    There is also a rather startling take on the nature of the "7 year covenant" and answers to some common questions such as :What is the abomination the causes desolation?

    The full post can be found at http://www.svetasv.com/aa/1002_Daniel_70_weeks.html
    Although I find analysis of the *form* and *structure* of the passage helpful, I do not find it helpful to break up an otherwise simple idea like "70 weeks of years" into non-contiguous sections. It is the equivalent of creating a riddle, to be solved by linguistic experts. And I don't think God wanted to do that. No, I don't think God deliberately hid meaning until its *revelation* comes to fruition at a particular date in history.

    The "70 Weeks" makes sense as it is, and likely assumes an interpretation already recognized in history. Otherwise, one can say that God gave a prophecy that nobody really understood. And God isn't like that. Or, one might say, God waited for someone like Joseph Smith to give it proper meaning, and the result would be attention given to a cult leader. I don't think God would do that either.

    If we begin at 457 BC and work "contiguously" from there we will have a time-honored interpretation that makes sense in the "normal way."

  4. #4

    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Although I find analysis of the *form* and *structure* of the passage helpful, I do not find it helpful to break up an otherwise simple idea like "70 weeks of years" into non-contiguous sections. It is the equivalent of creating a riddle, to be solved by linguistic experts. And I don't think God wanted to do that. No, I don't think God deliberately hid meaning until its *revelation* comes to fruition at a particular date in history.

    The "70 Weeks" makes sense as it is, and likely assumes an interpretation already recognized in history. Otherwise, one can say that God gave a prophecy that nobody really understood. And God isn't like that. Or, one might say, God waited for someone like Joseph Smith to give it proper meaning, and the result would be attention given to a cult leader. I don't think God would do that either.

    If we begin at 457 BC and work "contiguously" from there we will have a time-honored interpretation that makes sense in the "normal way."
    Thank you for the reply.
    Yes I agree that most of the Bible is simple and straightforward but it appears that some prophetic texts are obfuscated (which could be one interpretation of the phrase "seal up these prophecies"). My guess is that the reason for obfuscation is that these prophecies are not meant to predict the future but to prove that the Bible is truth after these events have occurred.
    Probably the most obvious example would be the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24 etc) which many scholars have concluded is a mix of several prophecies. I will show in an upcoming post that this can be deciphered chiastically clearing a lot of the confusion and also solving the "this generation willn not pass..." problem.

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    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, ....

    to finish the transgression,
    to make an end of sin,
    to make atonement for iniquity,
    to bring in everlasting righteousness,
    to seal up vision and prophecy
    and to anoint the most holy place.


    Blood has already been shed to accommodate all these points.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  6. #6

    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, ....

    to finish the transgression,
    to make an end of sin,
    to make atonement for iniquity,
    to bring in everlasting righteousness,
    to seal up vision and prophecy
    and to anoint the most holy place.


    Blood has already been shed to accommodate all these points.
    Can you say with certainty the last two points have been accomplished?

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    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by svetasv View Post
    Can you say with certainty the last two points have been accomplished?
    Yes.

    Prophecy and vision was either about exile or restoration. Jesus has sealed up forever the everlasting restoration of his people....and goes to prepare a place for us in the Fathers house / presence / most holy place.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  8. #8

    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    [QUOTE=svetasv;3407667]
    • The 7 weeks or 49 years ends with the advent of Christ's reign.(circa 2000AD)


    You are claiming that Christ has been reigning on earth since 2000 AD. That is pure fantasy.

  9. #9

    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    [QUOTE=Daniel567;3407823]
    Quote Originally Posted by svetasv View Post
    • The 7 weeks or 49 years ends with the advent of Christ's reign.(circa 2000AD)


    You are claiming that Christ has been reigning on earth since 2000 AD. That is pure fantasy.
    No I dont believe Christ is reigning now. I used the word circa and by that I mean any time +/- 30 years approximately. I dont want to get any more sprcific than that.

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    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by svetasv View Post
    Thank you for the reply.
    Yes I agree that most of the Bible is simple and straightforward but it appears that some prophetic texts are obfuscated (which could be one interpretation of the phrase "seal up these prophecies"). My guess is that the reason for obfuscation is that these prophecies are not meant to predict the future but to prove that the Bible is truth after these events have occurred.
    Probably the most obvious example would be the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24 etc) which many scholars have concluded is a mix of several prophecies. I will show in an upcoming post that this can be deciphered chiastically clearing a lot of the confusion and also solving the "this generation willn not pass..." problem.
    I am fascinated by your chiastic reconstruction because when I read your paper, it immediately began to make sense of the passage. Assigning the 7 year period to the destruction of the temple seems to be the best fit so far. Did you start there?

  11. #11

    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    I am fascinated by your chiastic reconstruction because when I read your paper, it immediately began to make sense of the passage. Assigning the 7 year period to the destruction of the temple seems to be the best fit so far. Did you start there?
    Thanls for the feedback.
    The initial idea was that each pair of goals( for ex to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin) matches with each time period in a chiastic fashion. The wikipedia article on the 70 weeks does have a chiasm but a completely different parse and that probably triggered the idea. Everything else kind of fell into place although some minor adjustments were necessary. That is the best I can come to a rational explanation of the thought process.

    In truth though a lot of ideas just popped into my head unbidden as I read the passage and even though I did not set out to write a paper I felt compelled to write something down.

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    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by svetasv View Post
    Thanls for the feedback.
    The initial idea was that each pair of goals( for ex to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin) matches with each time period in a chiastic fashion. The wikipedia article on the 70 weeks does have a chiasm but a completely different parse and that probably triggered the idea. Everything else kind of fell into place although some minor adjustments were necessary. That is the best I can come to a rational explanation of the thought process.

    In truth though a lot of ideas just popped into my head unbidden as I read the passage and even though I did not set out to write a paper I felt compelled to write something down.
    Well I intend to keep an open mind about this and see how other details might fall into place as I move forward in my studies. Thanks again.

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    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by svetasv View Post
    Thank you for the reply.
    Yes I agree that most of the Bible is simple and straightforward but it appears that some prophetic texts are obfuscated (which could be one interpretation of the phrase "seal up these prophecies"). My guess is that the reason for obfuscation is that these prophecies are not meant to predict the future but to prove that the Bible is truth after these events have occurred.
    Probably the most obvious example would be the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24 etc) which many scholars have concluded is a mix of several prophecies. I will show in an upcoming post that this can be deciphered chiastically clearing a lot of the confusion and also solving the "this generation willn not pass..." problem.
    I would like to see that because I've had a great interest in the Olivet Discourse for many years. I've found that in my own life I've been unable to understand certain prophecies, largely because I didn't have enough information, and sometimes because I lacked experience in the matter being discussed.

    I think the "sealing" of prophecies has to do with the fact it is a future prophecy. Many prophecies had a more immediate impact, calling a generation into immediate repentance. Some prophecies were longer term, and had to be unsealed over time. But I really haven't studied this terminology much, and am open to correction.

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    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    I am fascinated by your chiastic reconstruction because when I read your paper, it immediately began to make sense of the passage. Assigning the 7 year period to the destruction of the temple seems to be the best fit so far. Did you start there?


    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Your idea of what makes sense, and my idea of what makes sense, is apparently not the same. Totally doesn't make sense whatsoever, that this centers around 70 AD. Who is the he that confirmed the covenant with many for 7 years, starting with 67 AD and ending in 73 AD? And for what reason at that alleged time? Couldn't have been Jesus, He had already ascended to heaven by that time. So who is the he supposed to be meaning then? Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD. How then could the he in question make a covenant with many an entire 7 years if 3 and 1/2 of those years extends past when Jerusalem got destroyed, thus no one basically left to continue confirming the covenant another 3.5 years with?

  15. #15

    Re: A new chiastic method of deciphering the 70 weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9)

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Your idea of what makes sense, and my idea of what makes sense, is apparently not the same. Totally doesn't make sense whatsoever, that this centers around 70 AD. Who is the he that confirmed the covenant with many for 7 years, starting with 67 AD and ending in 73 AD? And for what reason at that alleged time? Couldn't have been Jesus, He had already ascended to heaven by that time. So who is the he supposed to be meaning then? Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD. How then could the he in question make a covenant with many an entire 7 years if 3 and 1/2 of those years extends past when Jerusalem got destroyed, thus no one basically left to continue confirming the covenant another 3.5 years with?
    I answer those questions in the paper linked. http://www.svetasv.com/aa/1002_Daniel_70_weeks.html
    Please see section titled "5.4.2 The meaning of the word "covenant" ". if you dont have time to read the entire paper.

    Here is an excerpt:
    We contend that the "covenant" is an agreement between God and Titus, probably through a number of intermediaries, to completely eliminate the Judahite people and destroy the city of Jerusalem within 7 years. During those 7 years, all divine protection for the Israelites would be suspended. Protection would be reinstated at the end of that time for the sake of "elect" - those who believed in Jesus and fled as he warned them in the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24:22).

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