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Thread: Is Jesus coming with Heaven at “His coming”?

  1. #1
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    Sep 2014
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    Is Jesus coming with Heaven at “His coming”?

    1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

    Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

    1 Thess 4:14 is very interesting. I had looked at this verse in the past to help prove that Jesus is God. But if you look at the context of the entire chapter, the focus is on God the Father and Jesus our Lord, in both persons of the one God. So then throughout the chapter, it is more appropriate to see the individual of “God” as the Father. Jesus also made it clear that we should focus on the Father through the Son; as an example, this is how Jesus taught us to pray:

    Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

    And then when we look at Mark 9:1, most of us were taught that the kingdom of God coming with power was the work of the Holy Spirit in building the Body of Jesus Christ in the Church. And I am in no way taking that away, but it certainly can take on a new meaning when looking at 1 Thess 4:14, and knowing that Jesus is at the RIGHT HAND OF POWER!

    Interestingly, can you find a verse that says that “Jesus” comes back with the dead souls? I was raised hearing that term over and over. But indeed the verse that is always pointed to is 1 Thess 4:14 which says clearly that GOD (the Father) brings the Dead back on the Clouds. Another verse is Romans 6:8, which is clearly a reference to dying to the old man, and living as Christ, whereas we are speaking of dead souls that are not yet resurrected or glorified.

    Believing that Jesus does indeed bring the dead back with Him at “His coming” is no problem, because if Jesus is at the right hand of God, then would He not be there if God came back to earth too?

    Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

    Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

    If God is “bringing” the dead, does that imply that God is on the move physically? And if God is seated on His throne in Heaven, the question is now whether Heaven is moving to earth, or if just the clouds of heaven are moving to earth…

    It is clear that God (THE FATHER) has come to earth in His glorious form many times in the history of the world. He sat on the Mercy Seat in the Tabernacle. He was in the cloud that went before them in the wilderness. And He came down on Mount Sinai. Here are some verses to look at:

    Psalms 18: 7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.

    Psalms 144: 5 Bow thy heavens, O LORD, and come down: touch the mountains, and they shall smoke.6 Cast forth lightning, and scatter them: shoot out thine arrows, and destroy them.7 Send thine hand from above; rid me, and deliver me out of great waters, from the hand of strange children;

    Exodus 24: 9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.13 And Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua: and Moses went up into the mount of God.14 And he said unto the elders, Tarry ye here for us, until we come again unto you: and, behold, Aaron and Hur are with you: if any man have any matters to do, let him come unto them.15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.16 And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

    So we can see in scripture, that there is the ability of heaven to bow down to earth. And apparently, 74 people saw this event as Heaven bowed all the way down to earth and touched the top of Mount Sinai thousands of years ago…

    So then, at “His Coming”, is it possible that Heaven itself will come on clouds and enter into the atmosphere of earth, bringing God the Father and Jesus and all the dead Saints with them?

  2. #2
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    Nov 2014
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    Re: (4D) Is Jesus coming with Heaven at “His coming”?

    Not sure about Heaven. However when you realise the New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven at this time, then you see the Father comes also.
    Many have Rev 21 occůr after Rev 20. Yet Rev 21 happens at the start of Rev 20.
    The vision shows something else of what occurs when Jesus returns.
    This is the wedding of the bride.

  3. #3
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    Re: (4D) Is Jesus coming with Heaven at “His coming”?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Not sure about Heaven. However when you realise the New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven at this time, then you see the Father comes also.
    Many have Rev 21 occůr after Rev 20. Yet Rev 21 happens at the start of Rev 20.
    The vision shows something else of what occurs when Jesus returns.
    This is the wedding of the bride.
    I do not agree with this idea. We are warned not to change or add to Revelation. God the Father does not dwell on earth during the Millennium, when Jesus will be the King of the world.

    SoF, your quote does say Jesus will bring those who sleep in Him. It doesn't say He will bring all the dead Christians and Revelation 20:4 tells us exactly who He will bring: Only those martyrs who will be murdered during the Great Tribulation. The rest of the dead, all the people who have ever lived, good or bad, wicked and righteous; await the Great White Throne Judgement, at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

    The prophecy in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 also refers to the time of the GWT Judgement and Paul's comment there about some who will never die, but get changed directly to immortality, are those Christians who will be alive at that time. This is proved by; in Eternity Death will be no more but we know that during the Millennium, death will still happen. Isaiah 65:20

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