Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst 123456789101112
Results 166 to 170 of 170

Thread: Are the 144,000 literally "virgins?"

  1. #166
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,658

    Re: Are the 144,000 literally "virgins?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I know the difficulty of tying the OT to the NT, because the wording can differ. This comes mainly from the OT being written in Hebrew and the NT in Greek.
    Your guess that the 144,000 could be Jews, simply shows that you have failed to even read it properly; they are people of every language.... Isaiah 66:18b

    It isn't speculation to use Luke 10:1-10 as a precursor for a future mission. People often apply Luke 10:19 to missionaries today.

    Your dismissal of my posts, just because you disbelieve my logical hypothesis, without any viable alternative interpretation, is valueless.

    If God wants to spread the Gospel by the means of an angel flying in mid heaven, loudly shouting; He should be doing it now! No: that idea is crazy and unscriptural; Rev 14:6-7 is just and allegory for the 144,000, described in the immediate preceding verses.
    I didn't even try to interpret what the angel preaching the gospel was! I was just declaring what the Revelation said! Are you then rejecting the book of Revelation and what it explicitly says? That would be equally cursed by God!

    The Revelation said that we are not to add to, nor subtract from, whatever is explicitly written in that book. And that's all I'm saying. Before stating positively something contrary or additional to what is written there, we should be careful to add a caveat of some kind. "This is what I *think* it means..."

    No, I believe that an angel preaches the gospel, because that is what we are told in Revelation. I also believe in the 144,000 Israelis, because that also is what we are told. What we are not told is that these 144,000 are *evangelists.*

    I don't even think it would be wrong for you to conjecture that the 144,000 Israelis are "evangelists." All Christians are, in a sense, "evangelists." However, my point is that you are adding something to their specific purpose, given in the Revelation, that is not explicitly said. And thus, you are tailoring the given purpose of the 144,000 to something other than what is described.

    You seem to be basing world evangelism on just these 144,000 Israelis, rendering them symbolic of something much larger than they are. Correct me if I'm wrong. I've heard this kind of thing from Dispensationalists for years. They think the Church has been raptured, and that the only evangelists remaining are the 144,000 Jews!

    I did propose an alternative to Isa 66, but was honest enough to say, I don't know for sure. And I'm not. What I do think is that whatever is written in the OT Scriptures about proclaiming the good news has to do with good news in an OT context, such as the good news of Jewish restoration from Diaspora.

    The verses you cited in Luke 10.1-10 has nothing to do with international evangelism by Jesus' disciples. At that time declaring the "good news" would have to be the announcement that Messiah is coming to town, with a warning to prepare for that event.

    Luke 10.1 "After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go."

    Jesus' disciples, at that time, were commissioned and sent to go to the towns of Israel--not to pagan Gentile nations. That commission would follow the resurrection, and begin after the ascension.

    Acts 1.8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria,and to the ends of the earth.”

    The gospel mission does not become international until after the gospel ministry *begins in Israel.* Afterwards, the gospel ministry becomes international.

  2. #167
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Are the 144,000 literally "virgins?"

    The great multitude and the 144,000:

    Much controversy surrounds them. Who are they and what do they do?
    Revelation 7:1-8 sets an earthly scene and says that 12,000 will come from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. This is immediately followed by verses 9-14, telling about a huge crowd of people from every tribe, race, nation and language, who have just passed through a great ordeal.
    This ordeal can be logically assumed to be the just previous; Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, that will destroy the attackers of Israel, as well as many ungodly Israelis. Many prophesies tell us that all of the holy Land will be cleared and cleansed at that time, in preparation for the establishment of a righteous nation there. Isaiah 62:1-5
    A people who will be God’s witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

    Revelation 14:1-5 also tells us about the 144,000. The Lord stands on Mt Zion and they are with Him. John then sees a flying angel, who is loudly proclaiming the Gospel throughout the earth.

    We know that Bible prophecy is a little here, a little there, so to gain more understanding on this subject, we look at Isaiah 66:15-21, where it says the Lord will judge with fire and many will be killed by Him. After that, He will gather His people, as many prophesies clearly state; Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 23:3-4, +
    They are people from every nation, coming on every means of transport, a huge number of people, Jeremiah 31:8-9, some of whom, God will put a sign on and will send to the nations to proclaim His Glory.

    From these and other Bible prophesies, we are told that the Lord will correct the current situation of having ungodly people in His holy Land. Jeremiah 12:14 says He will uproot all of them and it will be only the righteous believers who will live there.

    Therefore, the sequence is: a soon to happen Day of disaster for the world and all who stood firm in their faith and called out to the Lord for His protection, will go to live in all of the holy Land. There: soon after the fiery Judgement, the Lord will be revealed to them, as 2 Thessalonians 1:4b-10 exactly states.
    He will stand on Mt Zion, in Jerusalem and all the people will be divided into 12 groups according to their family characteristics. From each of them, He will select 12,000 young men, who will go out in pairs to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. The ‘angel’ of Revelation 14:6-7 is symbolic for them.

    There will be more trials and testing for those people, as prophesied, but it will not be more than 20 years before Jesus Returns to commence His Millennium reign.

  3. #168

    Re: Are the 144,000 literally "virgins?"

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Actually Jesus is not saying our children would be our judges, but rather that the children of the Pharisees, who reject Jesus, would be judges of their parents (for having rejected Jesus and,) will use the same measure against them.
    Hmmm, perhaps, but look at our present situation.

    Many of our own children are convinced that guns don't belong in schools to defend their lives!

    But, we are supposed to be the adults, knowing what's best and overruling the youngsters naivete.'

    So, will we?

    And, if not, will many more be killed?

    Will the Radical Islamic Terrorists avoid going to our schools out of reverence for youth?
    JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
    JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

  4. #169
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,001
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Are the 144,000 literally "virgins?"

    Quote Originally Posted by dan View Post
    Hmmm, perhaps, but look at our present situation.

    Many of our own children are convinced that guns don't belong in schools to defend their lives!

    But, we are supposed to be the adults, knowing what's best and overruling the youngsters naivete.'

    So, will we?

    And, if not, will many more be killed?

    Will the Radical Islamic Terrorists avoid going to our schools out of reverence for youth?
    The "supposed" adults don't seem able to protect the youth. Age by itself does not confer wisdom.

    The point though is about scripture and what it means, and not the mess in the US.

  5. #170

    Re: Are the 144,000 literally "virgins?"

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The "supposed" adults don't seem able to protect the youth. Age by itself does not confer wisdom.

    The point though is about scripture and what it means, and not the mess in the US.
    Yes, and that's part of the point, the mess isn't just in the US.

    The militarys of the entire world have shrunk to the point that they are incapable of defending the borders of their own countries, or even the police stations in their respective countries, let alone the public.

    The US has the potential to form a militia, if we don't outlaw AR15's.

    To think of Europe attempting that feat makes me laugh, yet that is exactly what may happen.

    When the guns of the fighter are broken, so will the Bridegroom, or the clergy, or maybe even Jesus, be broken.

    Daniel 11:22 And the arms of the fighter shall be overcome before his face, and shall be broken; yea also the prince of the covenant.
    Last edited by dan; Apr 11th 2018 at 12:14 AM.
    JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
    JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 140
    Last Post: May 5th 2018, 07:07 AM
  2. Replies: 68
    Last Post: Sep 6th 2013, 05:22 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •