Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
Did I proffer my opinion where it was intelligible?
I do believe your position was intelligible. The question is do you understand the problems that others have expressed with your views?(even if you don't agree). This thread is about "preconceived" idea's so i think its as good a place as any to Challenge "assumptions" that shape our end time understandings. I'm gonna keep harping on this because I know you would agree that the Resurrection is a huge part of the Second coming so Where in the Olive discourse do we find any mention of a Ressurection? If Jesus can leave out the Ressurection i don't think its a stretch to believe he leaves out the Rapture (thats just my line of thinking).

Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
Because my point was Jesus had to tell them because many of them would be returning with him from Heaven, see Rev. ch. 19. He therefore must need tell both about the rapture and the second coming. Only he did not want to reveal the secret of the rapture unto the Jews in general, it was for the Gentiles, so IMHO, he had to walk the fine line of giving them a demonstration of the rapture without telling them what it was. So if they want to know about his coming and the end he must needs to tell them about the rapture also, even if subtle. Of course like I stated, this part of the chapter might not and probably doesn't even go with Matthew 24 in reality, the fig tree parable should end the story, because it tells us that EVERY SIGN must come to pass before his coming.
I believe Jesus covered his second coming in Matthew 24:30 - 25:46. The disciples I believe understood they would be present at this time(Matthew 25:31).



Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
The point is even though they wouldn't know, Jesus would still have to tell them in order to explain in full about his second coming. In other words not understanding something doesn't mean when one inquires about an end time event that that which he doesn't understand will not be explained.
But it doesn't matter, in order to give a full account of the end times everything must be touched on. Remember, this is more for the tribulation Saints than for the Disciples, WHY would the Disciples need to know they have to FLEE JUDEA? Well of course they don't need to know that, Jesus just explained it, and that has nothing to do with the Second Coming per se now does it? Or at least no more to do with the Second Coming than the Rapture.
I agree with this especially the portion I bolded


Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
I don't know when this portion of what is Matthew 24 was spoken of but what I do know is this is the Rapture and can be nothing else.
Once more I disagree, I believe Matthew 24:30-51 and Matthew 25:1-46 all speak about the Same thing. The dividing of the Wise(Righteous) and the Foolish(Wicked) at the *Second Coming*. Unless you somehow believe that Matthew 25:31 is now also the Rapture.

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.



Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
Well I do, its the Gentile Church that is Raptured for the most part so it makes sense to me God would give it to Paul. It's not for the Jews per se but for the bride of Christ.
That's possible but personally as I said I don't believe that was the primary reason. Just my opinion.



Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
If you place Matthew 24:36-51 with the 10 Virgins it might give it some further context in that direction. I clearly see the parable of the 10 Virgins as being about the Rapture, 5 are shut out of the wedding because they did not have enough oil (Holy Spirit) in their Lamp (Bodies) and thus they were shut out of the wedding.
As I said he clearly says in the Passage that he's talking about the "KINGDOM OF HEAVEN". If you believe the "KINGDOM of HEAVEN" is shorthand for "The Rapture" I just ask that your consistent in this usage all throughout the book of Matthew.

So do you believe that if I were to substitute all uses for the term "Kingdom of Heaven" with "The Rapture" it would lead to "Logical" conclusions?

Let's just do Matthew 13 Really fast since the parables come really fast

The Parable of the Hidden Treasure

44“The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

The Parable of the Pearl of Great Value

45“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls, 46who, on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it.

The Parable of the Net

47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind. 48When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad. 49So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

New and Old Treasures

51“Have you understood all these things?” They said to him, “Yes.” 52 And he said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house, who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old.”


Lets rewrite these passages as "The Rapture" like you do in Matthew 25:1

“The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

"The Rapture" is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

The kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls, 46who, on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it.

"The Rapture" is like a merchant in search of fine pearls, 46who, on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it.


the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind. 48When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad.

The "Rapture" is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind. 48 When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad.

In all honesty is this how you understand the Kingdom of Heaven passages? As synonyms with the Rapture?

If this is not what you believe why do you "IGNORE" when Jesus says "THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN" is likened to 10 virgins and instead make this a Rapture passage?


The Rapture/Church is like 10 Virgins: 5 are shut out of the wedding because they did not have enough oil (Holy Spirit) in their Lamp (Bodies) and thus they were shut out of the wedding.

Because I don't think this : So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous 50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Is about the "Rapture". I honestly don't. I honestly think it could be about the end of the age when The Angels separate the "EVIL" from the Righteous.

Please explain to me why that is not a "viable" alternative to your understanding Matthew 24:40-42 even if you don't agree? Is it "Possible" this passage can be referring to those "Taken" to the Fiery Furnace while the righteous enter the "Kingdom"(but are NOT RAPTURED) as is explicitly stated in Matthew 13:40-43?


Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.