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Thread: Angels

  1. #16
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    Re: Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by verity View Post
    Seraphims are only mentioned in Isaiah 6 in the vision given to Isaiah. Seraphims are not called angels. They are not referred to as ministering spirits or messengers. They are named but not really explained to us.
    Cherubs are also not explicitly identified as angels. Yet they are considered thus by the majority.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  2. #17

    Re: Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Cherubs are also not explicitly identified as angels. Yet they are considered thus by the majority.
    Are we to seek truth according to the traditions of the majority or according to the word of God?

    Cherubim are described in detail in Ezekiel. Cherubim are also called "the living creature" or "living creatures" or "beasts". They are four in number. They are mentioned separately from angels and "elders" in Revelation 5:8,11 and 7:11. Cherubim are not called messengers or ministering spirits.

    Rev 5:8* And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints.*

    Rev 5:11* And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;*
    Rev 5:12* Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.*
    Rev 5:13* And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.*
    Rev 5:14* And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.*

    Cherubim are very unusual indeed. There is no place in scripture where angels are described like these living creatures:

    Eze 1:4* And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.*
    Eze 1:5* Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.*
    Eze 1:6* And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.*
    Eze 1:7* And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.*
    Eze 1:8* And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.*
    Eze 1:9* Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.*
    Eze 1:10* As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.*
    Eze 1:11* Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.*
    Eze 1:12* And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.*
    Eze 1:13* As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.*
    Eze 1:14* And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.*
    Eze 1:15* Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.*
    Eze 1:16* The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.*
    Eze 1:17* When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.*
    Eze 1:18* As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.*
    Eze 1:19* And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.*
    Eze 1:20* Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.*
    Eze 1:21* When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.*
    Eze 1:22* And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.*
    Eze 1:23* And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.*
    Eze 1:24* And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.*

    Eze 10:10* And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel.*
    Eze 10:11* When they went, they went upon their four sides; they turned not as they went, but to the place whither the head looked they followed it; they turned not as they went.*
    Eze 10:12* And their whole body, and their backs, and their hands, and their wings, and the wheels, were full of eyes round about, even the wheels that they four had.*
    Eze 10:13* As for the wheels, it was cried unto them in my hearing, O wheel.*
    Eze 10:14* And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.*
    Eze 10:15* And the cherubims were lifted up. This is the living creature that I saw by the river of Chebar.*
    Eze 10:16* And when the cherubims went, the wheels went by them: and when the cherubims lifted up their wings to mount up from the earth, the same wheels also turned not from beside them.*
    Eze 10:17* When they stood, these stood; and when they were lifted up, these lifted up themselves also: for the spirit of the living creature was in them.*
    Eze 10:18* Then the glory of the LORD departed from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubims.*
    Eze 10:19* And the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also were beside them, and every one stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD'S house; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above.*
    Eze 10:20* This is the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims.*

  3. #18
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    Re: Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler7 View Post
    I do not get your point, is makes,present continuous?
    I don't think so. His angels serve his will and do what he needs them to do when he needs them to do it.

  4. #19
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    Re: Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by verity View Post
    Are we to seek truth according to the traditions of the majority or according to the word of God?
    If the word of God isn't clear, sometimes we have to base our understanding on the word of those who came before us.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  5. #20

    Re: Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    If the word of God isn't clear, sometimes we have to base our understanding on the word of those who came before us.
    Godís Word is our only sure foundation. Men's wisdom and writings can be in error. This is why it is so important to search the scriptures to find understanding.

    "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help."
    Psalms 146:3

    For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. Pro 2:6

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 2Tim 3:16

  6. #21
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    Re: Angels

    Quote Originally Posted by verity View Post
    God’s Word is our only sure foundation. Men's wisdom and writings can be in error. This is why it is so important to search the scriptures to find understanding.
    We don't even know what words mean without a person teaching us.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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