Page 3 of 26 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 382

Thread: Did Israel possess their land?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,322
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post

    Only those who believe in fanciful theories and false theories, like to think they will get immortality before Judgement.
    Judgment is found in Rev 20:4. The final judgment you mention is literally the final judging that happens and it only involves the dead. No righteous are dead by the end of Rev 20 so only the unrighteous dead are resurrected for the final judgment which is to the LOF.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,304
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johosophat View Post
    Doctrines like this make reading the board a very depressing thing sometimes.

    Its in direct conflict with almost every prophecy of the Resurrection of the saints and the Kingdom age. Rev 20 is one of probably 100 different examples. Its comforting to know these are not salvation issues.
    Having long held beliefs challenged, ones that you have no real support and proof for, can be depressing for sure!
    But what would be far more upsetting is to still be here when the Lord does commence the end times events and what you fondly believed does not happen.

    Probably 100 examples of resurrection into immortality besides at the Great White Throne Judgement? You're a dreamer, Johosophat! Post just one to happen since 33AD.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,322
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Having long held beliefs challenged, ones that you have no real support and proof for, can be depressing for sure!
    But what would be far more upsetting is to still be here when the Lord does commence the end times events and what you fondly believed does not happen.

    Probably 100 examples of resurrection into immortality besides at the Great White Throne Judgement? You're a dreamer, Johosophat! Post just one to happen since 33AD.
    lol...immortality happens for the faithful at the second coming which is before the GWTJ.

    1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
    1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


    The last trump happens before the GWTJ.

    1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



    Obviously the dead in Christ rise and become immortal when Christ returns which is before any mass judgment of the wicked dead at the GWTJ.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,304
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Judgment is found in Rev 20:4. The final judgment you mention is literally the final judging that happens and it only involves the dead. No righteous are dead by the end of Rev 20 so only the unrighteous dead are resurrected for the final judgment which is to the LOF.
    Again, this simply dies not relate to what scripture actually says!
    Rev 20:4 is ONLY for the martyrs killed during the reign of the AC.
    Rev 20:12.... ALL the dead, great and small..... are Judged at the GWT. Also the living, as Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56.....some living faithful people will never taste death, but will go instantly into immortality, as their names will be found in the Book of Life.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,322
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Rev 20:4.... ALL the dead, great and small..... are Judged at the GWT.
    And the only ones who are dead at that time are the unsaved. The righteous were judged before this.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,304
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    lol...immortality happens for the faithful at the second coming which is before the GWTJ.

    1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
    1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


    The last trump happens before the GWTJ.

    1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Obviously the dead in Christ rise and become immortal when Christ returns which is before any mass judgment of the wicked dead at the GWTJ.
    You only say 'obviously', because of belief in false teachings. I know the Bible very well and along with many others, teach there is not and cannot be immortality until the New Jerusalem comes down to earth. Revelation 21:1-7 This truth is logical and conforms to all scripture.

    The 2 Bible quotes above, do not in any way, prove your point. Paul does not say when his prophecy in 1 Cor 15 will take place; we get that from Rev 20.
    1 Thess 4:15-17 is plainly about the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. He will bring the souls of those martyrs killed by the AC and raise them to life again. the rest of the dead await the GWT Judgement. READ REV 20:5 [if you have eyes to see or ears to hear]

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,304
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    And the only ones who are dead at that time are the unsaved. The righteous were judged before this.
    What about scriptural proof? Front up or forever hold your peace.

    In Matthew 25:31-33; Jesus tells us He will judge peoples and nations at His Return. NOT individuals, that happens at the GWT.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,322
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    You only say 'obviously', because of belief in false teachings. I know the Bible very well and along with many others, teach there is not and cannot be immortality until the New Jerusalem comes down to earth.
    You are those "teachers" are obviously in error.


    The 2 Bible quotes above, do not in any way, prove your point.
    They obviously do prove my point, and you have been unable to contend against them.


    Paul does not say when his prophecy in 1 Cor 15 will take place
    Of course he does...the last trump. Why do you say he doesn't say when it occurs?



    1 Thess 4:15-17 is plainly about the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. He will bring the souls of those martyrs killed by the AC and raise them to life again. the rest of the dead await the GWT Judgement.
    The martyrs killed by the AC are only part of the entire group of the "dead in Christ rise first". At the GWT there are no righteous. There are only those who are unsaved which is why we only see punishment for them. Not a single one there is given reward.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,322
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    What about scriptural proof? Front up or forever hold your peace.
    I already mentioned Rev 20:4. Read it or hold yours.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    212

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Having long held beliefs challenged, ones that you have no real support and proof for, can be depressing for sure!
    But what would be far more upsetting is to still be here when the Lord does commence the end times events and what you fondly believed does not happen.

    Probably 100 examples of resurrection into immortality besides at the Great White Throne Judgement? You're a dreamer, Johosophat! Post just one to happen since 33AD.

    My brother, no matter how much you argue, you aren't going to change verses like Zechariah 8, Isaiah 66, 1 Corinthians 15:52-53, Hebrew 9:27, 2 Cor 5:1-4, Daniel 12:2, Luke 20:35-36, 1 John 3:2, Rev 20:4, etc,etc.

    You are not going to enter the flesh a 2nd time, and you are not going to live out a 2nd life in corruptible flesh. Did Christ enter the flesh a 2nd time? Did Christ live a 2nd life in corruptible flesh? NO and neither are those who follow Him.

    Its heartbreaking that anyone would believe or teach such a thing.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,304
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johosophat View Post
    My brother, no matter how much you argue, you aren't going to change verses like Zechariah 8, Isaiah 66, 1 Corinthians 15:52-53, Hebrew 9:27, 2 Cor 5:1-4, Daniel 12:2, Luke 20:35-36, 1 John 3:2, Rev 20:4, etc,etc.

    You are not going to enter the flesh a 2nd time, and you are not going to live out a 2nd life in corruptible flesh. Did Christ enter the flesh a 2nd time? Did Christ live a 2nd life in corruptible flesh? NO and neither are those who follow Him.

    Its heartbreaking that anyone would believe or teach such a thing.
    I believe what the Bible actually says, not the fables of men.

    Lazarus and the widows boy raised by Elijah, came back to mortal life. They died again. Trying to say we will be immortal as Jesus is, is just pretentious and extremely arrogant.
    It will be only after the Millennium, after all that must happen and we are all tested and refined, that we can be found worthy to have our names Written in the Book of Life and gain immortality.
    You mention some Bible verses, I looked up some of them and do not see how they support immortality before the GWT Judgement. Please post proper proof of your belief or reconsider your beliefs in the light of Biblical truths. .

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    212

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I believe what the Bible actually says, not the fables of men.
    .

    Oh the irony!

    As you proclaim a 2nd life in corruptible flesh for all the Saints at the Resurrection. Surely most people can see your error here plainly in the text, by the blood of Yeshua I pray.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    5,647
    Blog Entries
    35

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJohnson View Post
    Are there any "New Testament" passages to support this viewpoint?
    I don't recall any New Testament passages that deal directly with this subject. There are passages that implicitly hint at the idea, however. Any New Testament passage that mentions "the fathers" is predicated on the promises Yahweh made to them and his "chesed" with respect to those promises. As I understand it, the Hebrew word "chesed," typically translated "loving kindness" conveys the idea of "covenant faithfulness" and in the Septuagint, is translated by the Greek word for "mercy." God has proven himself to be faithful to his promises and this should give us all hope because he has made "new covenant" promises that he also intends to keep.

    Thank you Father.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    3,208

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Revelation 20:1-15 is clear scripture. Only AFTER the 1000 years, is the final Judgement where the Book of Life is opened.
    Daniel 7:9-10 is also a reference to this time. That Daniel put it where he does, is a parenthesis, proved by the exact sequence as given in Revelation 20.

    Only those who believe in fanciful theories and false theories, like to think they will get immortality before Judgement. This unbiblical and pretentious belief, is a serious mistake and may result in some loss at their final Judgement.

    Re Revelation 7:9-14; this will happen soon after the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal and Rev 7:15-17 is plainly after the Millennium, in the New Jerusalem. All of it is on earth.
    So i was spot on about your beliefs? Great i hate to misrepresent people.

    Just curious about your bolded statement do you believe that Daniel 7:26 is also "in parenthesis"?

    But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end.

    Or would you agree that the court scene referenced here is referring to Daniel 7:9-10 where it clearly states that "The Books were Opened"?

    Do you believe the Exact sequence mentioned here is correct?

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,304
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johosophat View Post
    Oh the irony!

    As you proclaim a 2nd life in corruptible flesh for all the Saints at the Resurrection. Surely most people can see your error here plainly in the text, by the blood of Yeshua I pray.
    People should be able to read the Words of Revelation 20:4-6. It does not mention immortality and it says that their second death, if they do die again - may live for the 1000 years?, has no power over them. This final death for all the ungodly, wicked peoples is the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:14

    The irony is that your beliefs are as Paul told 2 Timothy 4:3-4 The time will come when people will turn to theories and false teachings....They will stop their ears to the truth and will believe fables.
    Do you think it impossible for you to be deceived? Please write out in full Revelation 20:4-6 and highlight where it says that all the saints [dead Christians] will be raised and where they receive immortality.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Land promised to Israel
    By kyCyd in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: Jul 27th 2017, 12:13 PM
  2. Is die land Israel van vandag, die land waarvan die Bybel praat?
    By CFJ in forum Gesprek oor die Eindtye en Aktuele sake
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: Jul 14th 2014, 12:37 PM
  3. Hasn't Israel already received the promise of land?
    By DavidBuck in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: Jan 4th 2011, 08:59 PM
  4. Israel and the Land?
    By HeavenlyVision in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: Jul 24th 2009, 02:20 PM
  5. Replies: 15
    Last Post: Feb 3rd 2009, 02:10 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •