Page 4 of 26 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 382

Thread: Did Israel possess their land?

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    So i was spot on about your beliefs? Great i hate to misrepresent people.

    Just curious about your bolded statement do you believe that Daniel 7:26 is also "in parenthesis"?

    But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end.

    Or would you agree that the court scene referenced here is referring to Daniel 7:9-10 where it clearly states that "The Books were Opened"?

    Do you believe the Exact sequence mentioned here is correct?
    Yes, I have consistently refuted the tendentious notion of a 'rapture to heaven', which necessitates a transformation into a spiritual and therefore eternal body. Nowhere does the Bible say this is what God has planned for His people. He plainly says we must face trials and testing, quite logical really! And we must endure until the end. Revelation 13:10 and 14-12. It is only AFTER all is said and done and the Books are opened, that the Crowns are given and the Victorious ones will receive their heritage. Revelation 21:7
    Any other theory, doctrine or fanciful notion, is just so much man made rubbish!

    Daniel 7:26, is in the context of the end times events, It refers to the Court described in Revelation 20:4...the Anti-Christ is deprived of his sovereignty and it will be abolished forever after the final battle at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:7-10
    Daniel 7:23-27 is a chronological sequence of the 'beast kingdom' and its eventual demise.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Who is it that says; BLESSED IS HE THAT COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD

    Matthew 23:39 & Luke 13:35 For I tell you, you will not see Me again until you say: Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord.”
    Luke 18:8...when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?

    Who are the inhabitants of Israel and Jerusalem at the time of Jesus’s Return?
    Zechariah 13:7-9... says how the Lord will judge Judah and the citizens of Jerusalem. Two thirds will die and the remainder will be refined, the dross removed and the remnant will call on the Lord and be accepted as His people. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 6:11-13, Jeremiah 12:14, Romans 9:27

    The House of Israel, the people that we know now refers to every true Christian, Isaiah 51:1-2, Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, are told how they have defiled themselves. Then, how they will be brought out of the peoples and lands where they are dispersed into. They are judged and the righteous will be allowed to enter and settle into all of the Promised Land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31
    Note, in v36...the same as I did in Egypt – see also Ezekiel 20:9....the Lord says- how I revealed Myself to the Israelites. That was in a cloud, not as a visible Person.
    Therefore; these judgements are before the Lords Return.

    Zechariah 14:1-3 A Day is coming for the Lord to act and plunder taken from you will be shared out, while you stand by. I shall gather the nations to make war on Jerusalem- the city will be taken, houses ransacked and women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, the rest will stay.... Then, the Lord will Return in glory. He will destroy the armies of the nations. Revelation 16:13
    Verses 1-2 only fit at the time the Anti-Christ and his army comes to the holy Land, Daniel 7:25, to the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, 3 years after he has made a peace treaty with them. He will set up his image in the Temple at that time. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31
    Those who go into exile are righteous Israel are the ‘woman’ of Revelation 12. Those who remain must face further refinement and testing. Daniel 11:35 During this 3 year Tribulation period, the two witnesses will preach in Jerusalem to them. When the two witnesses are killed and taken up to heaven there is an earthquake that kills 7000 people. Revelation 11:13
    Those who remain are the royal house of priests, who will reign with Jesus on earth. Revelation 5:9-10. THEY will welcome Jesus as He Returns in His glory, at the end of the Tribulation and the armies of all the nations will be there, Revelation 16:12-14, under the command of the Anti Christ. Revelation 19:19 Jesus destroys them and chains up Satan. Revelation 19:20-21

    Psalms 68:28-31 Summon Your power, show Your strength, O God, as you have done before. Kings will bring gifts to Your Temple.
    Rebuke those wild beasts, scatter those nations who make war. Envoys will come from the other nations in submission to God.

    Reference, REB, some verses abridged

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    212

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Who is it that says; BLESSED IS HE THAT COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD

    Matthew 23:39 & Luke 13:35 For I tell you, you will not see Me again until you say: Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord.”
    Luke 18:8...when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?

    Who are the inhabitants of Israel and Jerusalem at the time of Jesus’s Return?
    Zechariah 13:7-9... says how the Lord will judge Judah and the citizens of Jerusalem. Two thirds will die and the remainder will be refined, the dross removed and the remnant will call on the Lord and be accepted as His people. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Amos 2:4-5, Isaiah 6:11-13, Jeremiah 12:14, Romans 9:27

    The House of Israel, the people that we know now refers to every true Christian, Isaiah 51:1-2, Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, are told how they have defiled themselves. Then, how they will be brought out of the peoples and lands where they are dispersed into. They are judged and the righteous will be allowed to enter and settle into all of the Promised Land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31
    Note, in v36...the same as I did in Egypt – see also Ezekiel 20:9....the Lord says- how I revealed Myself to the Israelites. That was in a cloud, not as a visible Person.
    Therefore; these judgements are before the Lords Return.

    Zechariah 14:1-3 A Day is coming for the Lord to act and plunder taken from you will be shared out, while you stand by. I shall gather the nations to make war on Jerusalem- the city will be taken, houses ransacked and women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, the rest will stay.... Then, the Lord will Return in glory. He will destroy the armies of the nations. Revelation 16:13
    Verses 1-2 only fit at the time the Anti-Christ and his army comes to the holy Land, Daniel 7:25, to the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, 3 years after he has made a peace treaty with them. He will set up his image in the Temple at that time. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31
    Those who go into exile are righteous Israel are the ‘woman’ of Revelation 12. Those who remain must face further refinement and testing. Daniel 11:35 During this 3 year Tribulation period, the two witnesses will preach in Jerusalem to them. When the two witnesses are killed and taken up to heaven there is an earthquake that kills 7000 people. Revelation 11:13
    Those who remain are the royal house of priests, who will reign with Jesus on earth. Revelation 5:9-10. THEY will welcome Jesus as He Returns in His glory, at the end of the Tribulation and the armies of all the nations will be there, Revelation 16:12-14, under the command of the Anti Christ. Revelation 19:19 Jesus destroys them and chains up Satan. Revelation 19:20-21

    Psalms 68:28-31 Summon Your power, show Your strength, O God, as you have done before. Kings will bring gifts to Your Temple.
    Rebuke those wild beasts, scatter those nations who make war. Envoys will come from the other nations in submission to God.

    Reference, REB, some verses abridged



    Many of these prophecies are clear references to the house of Judah and Israel, NOT gentile Christians.

    There is not a verse in the entire bible that teaches gentiles will (at the Resurrection) become the house of Judah and live out a 2nd life in the flesh all over again. Paul clearly teaches we are changed into incorruptible, immortal glorified beings at the Resurrection.

    You don't start all over as as adult and live out an entire life in the flesh again. Our Lord Christ does not do that and neither does His body.
    Last edited by shepherdsword; Feb 6th 2018 at 09:42 PM. Reason: Insulting comment

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johosophat View Post
    Many of these prophecies are clear references to the house of Judah and Israel, NOT gentile Christians.

    There is not a verse in the entire bible that teaches gentiles will (at the Resurrection) become the house of Judah and live out a 2nd life in the flesh all over again. Paul clearly teaches we are changed into incorruptible, immortal glorified beings at the Resurrection.

    You don't start all over as as adult and live out an entire life in the flesh again. Our Lord Christ does not do that and neither does His body.

    That is not only unbiblical, its just plain stupid.
    I have reported your rude comment.

    We Christians ARE the Israelites of God. Ethnicity has nothing to do with Christianity. Ephesians 2:11-18 makes that perfectly clear.
    We are the Overcomers for God; literally His Israelites.
    We are the 'nation' that bears the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43

    Your claim that Paul teaches immortality at the Return of Jesus is wrong.
    1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is a prophecy about the final Judgement; the Great White Throne, after the Millennium. Proved by it is only then. the Book of Life is opened.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    212

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I have reported your rude comment.

    We Christians ARE the Israelites of God. Ethnicity has nothing to do with Christianity. Ephesians 2:11-18 makes that perfectly clear.
    We are the Overcomers for God; literally His Israelites.
    We are the 'nation' that bears the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43

    Your claim that Paul teaches immortality at the Return of Jesus is wrong.
    1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is a prophecy about the final Judgement; the Great White Throne, after the Millennium. Proved by it is only then. the Book of Life is opened.


    If you seriously "reported" me for something that small, then we should probably just avoid future discussion. You could call any opinion I have crazy or stupid, the last thing that would ever occur to me is to go tattle on you to the authorities. Particularly if I felt you were just wrong and mixed up scripturally.

    I think its best we just not discuss these things any more.

    Grace and peace to you my brother.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    6,164

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I have reported your rude comment.

    We Christians ARE the Israelites of God. Ethnicity has nothing to do with Christianity. Ephesians 2:11-18 makes that perfectly clear.
    We are the Overcomers for God; literally His Israelites.
    We are the 'nation' that bears the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43

    Your claim that Paul teaches immortality at the Return of Jesus is wrong.
    1 Corinthians 15:50-56 is a prophecy about the final Judgement; the Great White Throne, after the Millennium. Proved by it is only then. the Book of Life is opened.
    I have followed your dispute on the periphery. In no way has Johosophat been rude. He as merely said what a good number of the rest of us have said. That is, Israel is Israel and has its destiny, and the Church is the Church and has its destiny - AND NEVER THE TWAIN SHALL MEET. Not one of the verses you have produced to date has indicated that the Church will occupy the Good Land in the Millennium. And finally, you have disqualified yourself. Our Lord Jesus Himself, when addressing His disciples in Matthew 7:16 and 20 said; "Ye shall know them by their fruits." It is not a matter whether your argument is right or wrong. It is that the disciple of Jesus will turn the other cheek when struck, and NOT revile in return (Matt.5:39; 1st Pet.2:23). This you have failed to do. "By your fruit we shall know you".

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I have followed your dispute on the periphery. In no way has Johosophat been rude. He as merely said what a good number of the rest of us have said. That is, Israel is Israel and has its destiny, and the Church is the Church and has its destiny - AND NEVER THE TWAIN SHALL MEET. Not one of the verses you have produced to date has indicated that the Church will occupy the Good Land in the Millennium. And finally, you have disqualified yourself. Our Lord Jesus Himself, when addressing His disciples in Matthew 7:16 and 20 said; "Ye shall know them by their fruits." It is not a matter whether your argument is right or wrong. It is that the disciple of Jesus will turn the other cheek when struck, and NOT revile in return (Matt.5:39; 1st Pet.2:23). This you have failed to do. "By your fruit we shall know you".
    This is a most unfair and incorrect comment.
    People who make rude accusations should be reported, such behavior is unacceptable on an international forum. Personally: being called 'stupid', does not harm me, it shows the inability of my opponent to make a proper and decisive rebuttal.

    Re the Church and Israel;you just can't seem to overcome the fact that they are two entities; the Established Christian Church and the Jewish State of Israel, BUT those names have different meanings to God.
    Spiritually, they are one; born again Christians and the Lord's Israelite people, all of His Overcomers and we meet as Jew and Gentile, male and female, servant and leaders, etc. They will be named Hephzibah [My delight] In the new nation of Beulah, [Whom the Lord loves] in all that area given to Abraham and God will rejoice over them. Isaiah 62:1-5

    Any other outcome for our future as the Lord's faithful Christian people, is wrong and conflicts with Bible teachings.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    212

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    This is a most unfair and incorrect comment.
    People who make rude accusations should be reported, such behavior is unacceptable on an international forum. Personally: being called 'stupid', does not harm me, it shows the inability of my opponent to make a proper and decisive rebuttal.

    .


    If you are going to wrap yourself in the clock of honesty, you should start by admitting that NO ONE called you stupid. I called a specific theory "stupid".

    There is a DRAMATIC difference between the two, and you should not be so trigger sensitive over you views. Many people here have given you a very scriptural rebuttal, as well as me in this thread and others. You are in an extreme minority here, which is why you are so ultra sensitive on these matters.

    One thing is for sure, I will not be discussing these issues with you any further.

    God bless

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johosophat View Post
    If you are going to wrap yourself in the clock of honesty, you should start by admitting that NO ONE called you stupid. I called a specific theory "stupid".

    There is a DRAMATIC difference between the two, and you should not be so trigger sensitive over you views. Many people here have given you a very scriptural rebuttal, as well as me in this thread and others. You are in an extreme minority here, which is why you are so ultra sensitive on these matters. .
    Labelling what I say and believe 'stupid', is the same as a personal attack.

    Scriptural rebuttal to the truth of when immortality is conferred?
    I point out when the Bible tells us this will happen: at the GWT Judgement. No one - least of all you, have yet posted any Biblical proof of an earlier spiritual transformation of any human. Excepting the 2 Witnesses, special cases of individuals; like Elijah and Enoch.

    When a person is proved wrong in any matter and they just reject correction, then what adjective best applies to them?

    As for me being in an minority, believing and teaching that immortality is only given when the Book of life is opened; then I stand with all those who promote what the Bible actually says and not what man thinks it says.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    212

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Labelling what I say and believe 'stupid', is the same as a personal attack.

    No, it is not.

    Attacking a theory is attacking a theory. Attacking a person is attacking a person.

    Two very different things. You want to conflate the two because you want to feel justified in your hyper sensitive overreaction. You are also contradicting yourself by claiming its a biblical doctrine then saying my post was a attack on YOU PERSONALLY. If you believe its a biblical doctrine, then is not YOUR personal doctrine, its a biblical one and no one attacked YOU at all.

    I am not willing to argue this or the scriptural point with you any further. What was already posted can speak for itself.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,834
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk
    Did Israel possess their land?
    I am surprised that no one has quoted the verse that explicitly states how the entire promised land was completely occupied by Israel during the reigns of David and Solomon.

    Judah and Israel were as many as the sand by the sea. They ate and drank and were happy. Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt. They brought tribute and served Solomon all the days of his life.

    ... he had dominion over all the region west of the Euphrates from Tiphsah to Gaza, over all the kings west of the Euphrates. And he had peace on all sides around him. And Judah and Israel lived in safety, from Dan even to Beersheba, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, all the days of Solomon.
    (1 Kings 4:21-24)
    This territory was the full extent of the promise given to Abraham. Notice how the scripture even uses the term, "Israel were as many as the sand by the sea." This is a direct reference to the Abramic covenant.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    I am surprised that no one has quoted the verse that explicitly states how the entire promised land was completely occupied by Israel during the reigns of David and Solomon.

    This territory was the full extent of the promise given to Abraham. Notice how the scripture even uses the term, "Israel were as many as the sand by the sea." This is a direct reference to the Abramic covenant.
    Occupied and ruled over; yes, but never cleared as God required. Judges 1:19-36
    This awaits fulfillment and we know from Bible prophecy that it will be every faithful Christian form every tribe, race, nation and language, that will live there in peace and prosperity. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 5:9-10

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    6,164

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    This is a most unfair and incorrect comment.
    People who make rude accusations should be reported, such behavior is unacceptable on an international forum. Personally: being called 'stupid', does not harm me, it shows the inability of my opponent to make a proper and decisive rebuttal.

    Re the Church and Israel;you just can't seem to overcome the fact that they are two entities; the Established Christian Church and the Jewish State of Israel, BUT those names have different meanings to God.
    Spiritually, they are one; born again Christians and the Lord's Israelite people, all of His Overcomers and we meet as Jew and Gentile, male and female, servant and leaders, etc. They will be named Hephzibah [My delight] In the new nation of Beulah, [Whom the Lord loves] in all that area given to Abraham and God will rejoice over them. Isaiah 62:1-5

    Any other outcome for our future as the Lord's faithful Christian people, is wrong and conflicts with Bible teachings.
    I'll say it again just for the record.

    What makes an Israelite an Israelite? It is his/her LINE OF BIRTH. On any one day in Jacob's time, one of his wives or concubines gave birth to a child. On the same day, their neighbors, Moab, have a child born to them. And that child may, by decree of God in Deuteronomy 23:2-3, not enter the ranks of Israel even if that Moabite resides in Israel until the tenth generation. Jacob's child on the other hand, is an Israelite because it came from Jacob who came from Isaac and God has decreed Genesis 17:19, 21:12, 35:12, Romans 9:7 and Hebrews 11:18, "... for in Isaac shall thy seed be called." That is, God's Promises are directed at the "SEED of Isaac".

    But when our Lord Jesus came He spoke of AN-OTHER, NEW and SPIRITUAL BIRTH. Nicodemus, just like you, could not fathom this and asked how a man could get back into the WOMB and be born again. He, like you, LOOKS SOLELY TO THE FLESH. But John 3:6 says that this New and Heavenly and Spiritual Birth is NO BIRTH ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. What is more, this BIRTH is, "... not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:13). According to Genesis 1:11-12, where God made an immutable Law that everything with SEED inside itself would produce the same thing, the Church of the Living God is the SEED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THUS IS A TOTALLY NEW, SPIRITUAL AND DIVINE ENTITY THAT IS LIKE NO OTHER IN THE UNIVERSE.

    1. The Moabites, SEED of Lot's incest - the flesh, have their destiny. They can never be MIXED with Israel
    2. Israel, SEED of Isaac - the FLESH, have their destiny BUT REMAIN OFFSPRING OF THE FLESH
    3. The Church, SEED of the Christ (Jn.12:24)* and the Holy Spirit, have their destiny AND THEY CAN NEVER MIX WITH ISRAEL. Galatians 5:17 DECLARES THEM MORTAL ENEMIES THAT ARE "CONTRARY" TO ONE ANOTHER. It reads; "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

    After Christ's return the prophecies concerning Israel's restoration as a nation will be fulfilled. But NONE of these prophecies APPLY TO THE CHURCH. While there are Types and Shadows of the Church in the Old Testament, there is not a single Old Testament prophecy which concerns the Church. The Church had NOT BEEN REVEALED to any prophet of old. It is a MYSTERY RESERVED FOR CHRIST AND THE APOSTLES TO REVEAL (Eph.3:5, 9, Rom.16:25).


    * It is through the SEED of our Lord Jesus that we are made partakers of the Promises made to Abraham (Gal.3:29). Our Lord Jesus, Seed of Isaac according to the FLESH, carries the Covenant of Promise from God. He NEVER has children. But He produces SEED AFTER HE HAS DIED (Jn.12:24) AND THIS SEED IS OF THE SPIRIT - NOT THE FLESH. Nevertheless, because in Christ are valid Promises, so also are those who are IN Christ made partakers of the Covenant of Promise.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    18,200

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    I am surprised that no one has quoted the verse that explicitly states how the entire promised land was completely occupied by Israel during the reigns of David and Solomon.


    It would be pointless to do that. Unless one wants to claim , that in the book of Ezekiel, for example, when Ezekiel prophesied about Israel taking possession of the land forever, that he didn't literally mean forever, and that he wasn't really prophesying at all, but instead was referring to the times of the reigns of David and Solomon.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,001
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Did Israel possess their land?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    It would be pointless to do that. Unless one wants to claim , that in the book of Ezekiel, for example, when Ezekiel prophesied about Israel taking possession of the land forever, that he didn't literally mean forever, and that he wasn't really prophesying at all, but instead was referring to the times of the reigns of David and Solomon.
    It also ignores the statement made in Hebrews 11:10 & 39 where Abraham was a stranger looking forward to what God would do, yet none of those commended for their faith received what had been promised.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Land promised to Israel
    By kyCyd in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: Jul 27th 2017, 12:13 PM
  2. Is die land Israel van vandag, die land waarvan die Bybel praat?
    By CFJ in forum Gesprek oor die Eindtye en Aktuele sake
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: Jul 14th 2014, 12:37 PM
  3. Hasn't Israel already received the promise of land?
    By DavidBuck in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: Jan 4th 2011, 08:59 PM
  4. Israel and the Land?
    By HeavenlyVision in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: Jul 24th 2009, 02:20 PM
  5. Replies: 15
    Last Post: Feb 3rd 2009, 02:10 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •