what about "prophets" of today?

[randyk]

What do you think of "prophets" such as Neville Johnson, Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj, David Wilkerson, and I guess there are others, such as Rick Joyner, the Kansas City Prophets, etc.? I've been listening to Neville Johnson, and find him inspiring. And though I've had some criticism for D.Wilkerson, due to his Pretrib Rapture belief and identifying of America with the Great Harlot, I'm starting to rethink my positions. Is it possible some of these fellows really do receive visions and prophecies, and even though they are imperfect and human, do communicate truth from God? In what way can we accept them as perfect and human, while at the same time determine that what they say is trustworthy?

Like everyone else I thought the way to determine a true prophet was by the accuracy of their predictions. And I'm sure that has some validity. But if prophets are imperfect, and they have to be, there must be some room for their imperfections? Perhaps what the Bible warns us about is prophets who tend to steer us away from God, rather than depend on the perfection of their life and prophecy?

I'm beginning to look more to the spiritual nature of the prophet, because their spirit can be felt, and their holiness observed in the way they conduct themselves. If so, they likely will speak the word of God in their messages. And of course, we can judge their message by the Scriptures. The problem is, so much of making predictions goes beyond the Scriptures, and we are forced to judge not directly from Scriptures, but generally. All comments welcome.

[jesusinmylife]

Deuteronomy 18:20 New International Version (NIV)

20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”

[Aijalon]

What do you think of "prophets" such as Neville Johnson, Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj, David Wilkerson, and I guess there are others, such as Rick Joyner, the Kansas City Prophets, etc.?

Without bashing anyone in particular, I suspect that they are essentially false prophets and sooth sayers. Please understand that I don't believe this means they are not saved or not Christians. A bad preacher is still a Christian. As to the visions they receive, lets set that to the side for the moment, each would need to be evaluated for it's content specifically.

and even though they are imperfect and human, do communicate truth from God?

The hallmark of prophets are that they are sent for a specific reason, and that reason was never to simply predict things.
The reason they are sent is because the people of God are going astray, and need to be corrected. (We are all like sheep who have gone astray)
The Bible instructs us that the method of identifying a false prophet is when their predictions don't come true. That is not the same as the REASON prophets are sent.
To discover the reason for God sending prophets, study the situation and commissioning of each prophet.....
Secondly, ensure that you properly divide the types of prophets, the major ones that had leadership authority are not necessarily indicative of all prophets.
Prophets expose the sin of the people of God, call them to repent, give signs of confirmation when the situation is bad, in order that the people understand the prophet is from God.

In what way can we accept them as perfect and human, while at the same time determine that what they say is trustworthy?

Note the methods that God uses to deal with the false prophets of Israel.
Note that the prophets that had powerful messages fellowshipped with God in order that they clearly hear from him.
If you are sinning in your life, you cannot fellowship with God in order to hear from him.
"imperfect" prophets is a lame excuse for false prophets.
God's word is not imperfect, nor is the call to repentance in some way vague or weak.

Like everyone else I thought the way to determine a true prophet was by the accuracy of their predictions. And I'm sure that has some validity.

It is worth reiterating.... predictions is not the purpose of prophecy, it is a tool of the prophet to exhibit their authority when the people reject the prophet, or doubt God.
Paul instructs us that prophecy is for all believers, which is simply to say that the call to the church to examine it's heart and keep a clean conscience is partly everyone's job.

But if prophets are imperfect, and they have to be, there must be some room for their imperfections?

There is not room for imperfection. However, that isn't the same thing as there being a variety of ways in which one could respond to a prophecy.
Example prophecy: "God said don't covet, therefore repent of coveting the church building down the road"
Example response: cancel the fund raising drive and devote the church to a relationship to God

Perhaps what the Bible warns us about is prophets who tend to steer us away from God, rather than depend on the perfection of their life and prophecy?

Here's the rub.... looking to prophets to make predictions is an example of the people steering away from God. Predictions are signs, and sign seeking is a sin.
Prophets were not popular, and never will be, critiquing the life of a prophet can be a sign that you are resisting God, however, when a prophet gives a sign, the sign speaks for itself. If the sign fails, asking about the prophet's sins is pointless - the prophecy was is false - it was from the imagination of man.

I'm beginning to look more to the spiritual nature of the prophet, because their spirit can be felt, and their holiness observed in the way they conduct themselves. If so, they likely will speak the word of God in their messages. And of course, we can judge their message by the Scriptures. The problem is, so much of making predictions goes beyond the Scriptures, and we are forced to judge not directly from Scriptures, but generally. All comments welcome.

once you see that prophecy was never ABOUT making predictions, you'll see. The spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophets BECAUSE it is a spirit of contrite-ness of heart. The call of God to the people that are not hearing him well comes through the prophet. People that hear from God and follow his laws have no need for a prophet, because they hear God. The essential thing of a prophet is to examine your heart.

EZEKIEL 14:6 "Therefore say to the people of Israel, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Repent! Turn from your idols and renounce all your detestable practices!

[Walls]

What do you think of "prophets" such as Neville Johnson, Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj, David Wilkerson, and I guess there are others, such as Rick Joyner, the Kansas City Prophets, etc.? I've been listening to Neville Johnson, and find him inspiring. And though I've had some criticism for D.Wilkerson, due to his Pretrib Rapture belief and identifying of America with the Great Harlot, I'm starting to rethink my positions. Is it possible some of these fellows really do receive visions and prophecies, and even though they are imperfect and human, do communicate truth from God? In what way can we accept them as perfect and human, while at the same time determine that what they say is trustworthy?

Like everyone else I thought the way to determine a true prophet was by the accuracy of their predictions. And I'm sure that has some validity. But if prophets are imperfect, and they have to be, there must be some room for their imperfections? Perhaps what the Bible warns us about is prophets who tend to steer us away from God, rather than depend on the perfection of their life and prophecy?

I'm beginning to look more to the spiritual nature of the prophet, because their spirit can be felt, and their holiness observed in the way they conduct themselves. If so, they likely will speak the word of God in their messages. And of course, we can judge their message by the Scriptures. The problem is, so much of making predictions goes beyond the Scriptures, and we are forced to judge not directly from Scriptures, but generally. All comments welcome.

A prophet's "imperfections" have nothing to do with his/her prophecy. All men and women are "imperfect", but the prophecy is INSPIRED by the Holy Spirit. Thus, while there is much room for the prophet for failure, there is thus no room for prophecy to fail. It was either inspired and comes to pass, or the prophet is a LIAR. That prophet that says he/she received of God, but did not, lies to the Church. Do I have to point to Ananias and Saphira? Not only the Old Testament prophet is in mortal danger, as Jesusinmylife reports above, but so is the Christian.

The translators of the King James did a magnificent job. But now and again they, in trying to transmit the idea of the text, went too far. Such an example is found in 1st Corinthians 12:1-7. The King James reads, in verse 1; "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant." The word "gifts" (which I made red) is not in the original text. That is why the translators put it in italics. The literal rendering of this verse is actually, "Now concerning THE INSPIRED, brethren, I would not have you ignorant." The Greek is "pnuematikos" the which Vine tells us; "always connotes the ideas of invisibility and of power". (Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.) The context in verses 2 and 3 support this. It is, in verse 2 "dumb" idols - the opposite of one which has "power" to speak, and in verse 3 it is, "... man speaking by the Spirit of God" - that is, he is inspired. So also verse 6 where the "operation" is "worked by God", and in verse 7 it is a "manifestation GIVEN".

Finally, in connection with this theme,

1. 1st Corinthians 14:3 defines a Christian prophet, and foretelling things is not the most important thing. It reads; "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to (1) edification, and (2) exhortation, and (3) comfort." The reason that foretelling the future is very limited in the Church is that, "... The just shall live by faith!" (Rom.1:17; Gal.3:11; Heb.10:38). The Christian is to leave the future in God's hands.
2. 1st Corinthians 14:29 says; "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge." Testing by the "other" of the Church is mandatory. I cannot find a verse in the New Testament concerning the consequences to a false prophet in the Church, but the consequences should at least be that the speaker of these things is "shunned" and never believed again. We have an indication in 2nd Timothy 2:14-18.

14 "Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."

In verse 14 the context is "striving about words to no profit". This could be anything if we only had verse 16 and "vain babblings". But the other verses expand on the "vain babblings" and show it to be;

• a matter of the truth (v.15 & 18)
• a prophecy that the resurrection had already taken place (v.18)

In any case, let the man and woman who would deign to prophecy without inspiration remember two sobering facts:

1. Matthew 12:36 warns of a FUTURE reckoning that will not go away. "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."
2. Ananias and Saphira lied to the Church, but God sees that as lying to the Holy Spirit. The unforgivable sin of Matthew 12:31-32 and Luke 12:10 is when a man or woman attribute something to the Holy Spirit when it did not originate there. What a fearsome thought!

[randyk]

I've fought tooth and nail with these things, regarding prophets, for a long, long time now. Unique circumstances in my life have made this unavoidable. There have been many, many stumbling blocks, and there continue to be some. However, I'm inclined to believe that at least some of these "prophets" are the genuine article. And all of the issues raised thus far I've considered, and I appreciate the input. I've disliked the emphasis on predictions, the pull to want to seek the prophet, the sensationalism, and the aberrant doctrine in some of them, including prophecies that some claim were not fulfilled.

However, I keep coming back to them, and feel that there is more there than I realized. And some of the "defects" do not seem to be a major problem. The emphasis is on the message, rather than on the perfections of the prophet himself or herself.

In my own church one of our pastors "prophesied," and is thought to be a "prophet." It has caused a major split in our church, because she prophesied against the worship team. There is evidence the prophecy was true. However, the very act of doing something like this appeared to me to be inappropriate. I'm stuck going over and over these things, hoping things will become clear over time. Thanks for your input!

Let me just add that although I initially dismissed Neville Johnson for his testimony about angelic visitations, I've come to reassess him. He has a powerful sense of the Holy Spirit around his messages, and I find I cannot dismiss him simply because he seems "odd." Furthermore, I see actual prophetic signs around him, such as when I recently listened to a recorded message from a year ago. I was listening on youtube on the very day Billy Graham died. And here I was listening to this message from Neville, recorded a year prior, when an hour and one minute into the message he stopped and apologized, claiming he wasn't a lune. Then he said he saw the face of Billy Graham, and began to talk about how after his death we would enter into a new era.

Then I looked Neville up on the internet and noticed he had worked with men of God who I had heard in the distant past--men like Judson Cornwall and Brian Bailey who I knew to have been "prophetic" in their teaching ministries. So before writing off any of these specific men and their prophecies, simply because of seeming "aberrations," I suggest you get on youtube and give them a listen. Men like Neville I just can't dismiss. I always come away, after listening to him, feeling spiritually energized! If you listen to him, let me know if you don't feel the same way?

[Old man]

What do you think of "prophets" such as Neville Johnson, Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj, David Wilkerson, and I guess there are others, such as Rick Joyner, the Kansas City Prophets, etc.? I've been listening to Neville Johnson, and find him inspiring. And though I've had some criticism for D.Wilkerson, due to his Pretrib Rapture belief and identifying of America with the Great Harlot, I'm starting to rethink my positions.

I don’t think much of them. I wasn't called to follow those who are said to be prophets. The Lord has my concentration elsewhere. Are they prophets? They actually could be (honestly). Of course … it depends on whether what they say comes true or not. Or if they teach us to seek God or someone else. But being perfect is not a criteria of being a prophet nor is having all your doctrines correct. Pre-trib is wrong so is America = Great Harlot. Mankind is the Great Harlot.

Is it possible some of these fellows really do receive visions and prophecies, and even though they are imperfect and human, do communicate truth from God? In what way can we accept them as perfect and human, while at the same time determine that what they say is trustworthy?

Even if they get it wrong on some teachings they can still be gifted in the prophetic. They just may not be teachers though many may think otherwise based on them being gifted in prophecy. Not all pastors teach truth on all doctrines but that does not negate their position of a pastor in the body of Christ.

The difficulty many of those in the prophetic have is over embellishing the actual words or visions God does give them. They add many of their own impressions and feeling into the words they give.

You can never accept them as perfect, nor should you try. I avoid listening to the ones who are always preaching God’s blessings. Scripturally the majority of prophecies were corrections and warnings and many down right judgments. I also avoid those who are always prophesying judgment on nations (including and especially the US).

Determining what they say as being trustworthy is a rather difficult thing to do and involves a great deal of faith but it all must be backed up and founded in scripture. God is not going to change His character from what He has revealed in scripture. He will not contradict Himself.

Like everyone else I thought the way to determine a true prophet was by the accuracy of their predictions. And I'm sure that has some validity. But if prophets are imperfect, and they have to be, there must be some room for their imperfections? Perhaps what the Bible warns us about is prophets who tend to steer us away from God, rather than depend on the perfection of their life and prophecy?

If a prophet says “The Lord says such and such” If such and such does not happen then it obviously was not the Lord who said it and they are not speaking rightly. I would not consider them a prophet. There must be accuracy to what they say other wise they are not speaking for God. It’s not the perfection of their life but perfection of their words from God is still a requirement.

Another issue I take offense to is the idea that you can pass your prophetic gift onto someone else by laying on of the hands and praying over them to receive it. We don't determine who gets what gift the Holy Spirit does. All we produce by doing the above mentioned procedure is produce a lot of "wanna be" prophets running around prophesying from their impressions and feelings. Causing considerable damage to those who listen and to themselves.

I'm beginning to look more to the spiritual nature of the prophet, because their spirit can be felt, and their holiness observed in the way they conduct themselves. If so, they likely will speak the word of God in their messages.

Not any more than a pastor’s spirit can be felt as he walks with the Lord in truth. Or the teacher, or the evangelist. There is nothing about a prophet that makes them any more spiritual that anyone else who loves God and desires Him to be their greatest and most magnificent obsession.

And of course, we can judge their message by the Scriptures. The problem is, so much of making predictions goes beyond the Scriptures, and we are forced to judge not directly from Scriptures, but generally. All comments welcome.

It doesn’t have to be scripture and it can be out-side of it as long as it does not contradict it or try to supersede it.

[Aijalon]

In my own church one of our pastors "prophesied," and is thought to be a "prophet." It has caused a major split in our church, because she prophesied against the worship team. There is evidence the prophecy was true. However, the very act of doing something like this appeared to me to be inappropriate. I'm stuck going over and over these things, hoping things will become clear over time.

You are a persistent fellow, at least in posts....

Would you mind sharing the basic nature of the prophecy "against" the worship team? Would you mind including any essential details about possible clique-ishness going on? (I tend to think that it's likely there was an "inner" circle regarding worship leaders, as worship teams are often fraught with problems over who is allowed to display their talent....

Let me just add that although I initially dismissed Neville Johnson for his testimony about angelic visitations, I've come to reassess him. He has a powerful sense of the Holy Spirit around his messages, and I find I cannot dismiss him simply because he seems "odd." Furthermore, I see actual prophetic signs around him, such as when I recently listened to a recorded message from a year ago. I was listening on youtube on the very day Billy Graham died. And here I was listening to this message from Neville, recorded a year prior, when an hour and one minute into the message he stopped and apologized, claiming he wasn't a lune. Then he said he saw the face of Billy Graham, and began to talk about how after his death we would enter into a new era.

Then I looked Neville up on the internet and noticed he had worked with men of God who I had heard in the distant past--men like Judson Cornwall and Brian Bailey who I knew to have been "prophetic" in their teaching ministries. So before writing off any of these specific men and their prophecies, simply because of seeming "aberrations," I suggest you get on youtube and give them a listen. Men like Neville I just can't dismiss. I always come away, after listening to him, feeling spiritually energized! If you listen to him, let me know if you don't feel the same way?

Feeling spiritually "energized" ... this doesn't seem like that is necessarily limited to prophets... why not motivational speakers? Is it the style in which ANY prophet of the Bible's ministry is portrayed? That said, the Holy Spirit does energize us to do the will of God. But simply feeling energetic after a meeting is not the same thing as the fruit of the spirit which comes from within... (Peace, Love, joy, Kindness). If your energy does not translate into a meaningful increase in those things, that fruit is not from God, but is rather the emotional energy inspired by man.

Neville Johnson..... he seems to be of a decent age, so he's been around. I wonder about his track record on prophecy?
He seems to have a dark past and a scandal in his early days as a pastor in New Zealand, and he got back on track in the 90's?
Do any dead people appear in his angelic visitations? Do any of the visitations include especially feminine characters?
What are his depictions of the Lord like? (are they God glorifying? see Revelation 1....)
Are there elements of guilt, shame, anger, fear, or confusion in his visions?

[Keraz]

I believe that we have no prophets now. Psalms 74:9 still applies.
However, there are some people who have the gift of prophecy over individuals. And maybe over groups, even nations. But not about what God has Planned for the future of this planet. The ancient prophets told it all, and if people fail to read it, assign it all to the past or to ethnic Israel, they are simply in the dark.

Many will try to gain this knowledge.... Daniel 12:4 But only a few will understand. Daniel 12:10

Ezekiel 33:30-33 People gather in groups and talk among themselves, saying: Let us see if there is any message from the Lord.
So people will read what is Written, but they will not act on it. Fine words, they will say, with insincerity, for their hearts are set on going their own way and they believe false teachers who promote prosperity and removal from any Tribulation.
To them, anyone who tells the truth of the Prophetic Word, is no more than a singer of fine songs, or a gifted musician. They will read the truth as presented, but none will take heed of it.
When disaster comes, as it come will, only then will they remember that they were warned, but failed to take notice of what God's prophets had told them.

[randyk]

I don’t think much of them. I wasn't called to follow those who are said to be prophets. The Lord has my concentration elsewhere. Are they prophets? They actually could be (honestly). Of course … it depends on whether what they say comes true or not. Or if they teach us to seek God or someone else. But being perfect is not a criteria of being a prophet nor is having all your doctrines correct. Pre-trib is wrong so is America = Great Harlot. Mankind is the Great Harlot.



Even if they get it wrong on some teachings they can still be gifted in the prophetic. They just may not be teachers though many may think otherwise based on them being gifted in prophecy. Not all pastors teach truth on all doctrines but that does not negate their position of a pastor in the body of Christ.

The difficulty many of those in the prophetic have is over embellishing the actual words or visions God does give them. They add many of their own impressions and feeling into the words they give.

You can never accept them as perfect, nor should you try. I avoid listening to the ones who are always preaching God’s blessings. Scripturally the majority of prophecies were corrections and warnings and many down right judgments. I also avoid those who are always prophesying judgment on nations (including and especially the US).

Determining what they say as being trustworthy is a rather difficult thing to do and involves a great deal of faith but it all must be backed up and founded in scripture. God is not going to change His character from what He has revealed in scripture. He will not contradict Himself.



If a prophet says “The Lord says such and such” If such and such does not happen then it obviously was not the Lord who said it and they are not speaking rightly. I would not consider them a prophet. There must be accuracy to what they say other wise they are not speaking for God. It’s not the perfection of their life but perfection of their words from God is still a requirement.

Another issue I take offense to is the idea that you can pass your prophetic gift onto someone else by laying on of the hands and praying over them to receive it. We don't determine who gets what gift the Holy Spirit does. All we produce by doing the above mentioned procedure is produce a lot of "wanna be" prophets running around prophesying from their impressions and feelings. Causing considerable damage to those who listen and to themselves.



Not any more than a pastor’s spirit can be felt as he walks with the Lord in truth. Or the teacher, or the evangelist. There is nothing about a prophet that makes them any more spiritual that anyone else who loves God and desires Him to be their greatest and most magnificent obsession.



It doesn’t have to be scripture and it can be out-side of it as long as it does not contradict it or try to supersede it.

Sounds like I would enjoy a good long conversation with you. I've had a lot of the same kinds of feelings. I just feel God pulling me back to the prophetic ministry. I didn't even think there was much of a thing called a "prophetic ministry." I didn't dismiss the spiritual gifts. I just distrusted the sensationalism, etc.

Anyway, thanks for your honest thoughts and good advice.

[randyk]

I believe that we have no prophets now. Psalms 74:9 still applies.
However, there are some people who have the gift of prophecy over individuals. And maybe over groups, even nations. But not about what God has Planned for the future of this planet. The ancient prophets told it all, and if people fail to read it, assign it all to the past or to ethnic Israel, they are simply in the dark.

Many will try to gain this knowledge.... Daniel 12:4 But only a few will understand. Daniel 12:10

Ezekiel 33:30-33 People gather in groups and talk among themselves, saying: Let us see if there is any message from the Lord.
So people will read what is Written, but they will not act on it. Fine words, they will say, with insincerity, for their hearts are set on going their own way and they believe false teachers who promote prosperity and removal from any Tribulation.
To them, anyone who tells the truth of the Prophetic Word, is no more than a singer of fine songs, or a gifted musician. They will read the truth as presented, but none will take heed of it.
When disaster comes, as it come will, only then will they remember that they were warned, but failed to take notice of what God's prophets had told them.

What about the two prophets of Rev 11?

[marty fox]

What about the two prophets of Rev 11?

Keraz is right there is no more need for any more prophets as the ones in the past told it all. I believe the two witnesses in Rev 11 to be symbolic of the law and the prophets which all pointed to Jesus

[shepherdsword]

I think all of the spiritual gifts are active today. They are needed now,in this end time great deception,more than ever. For example, I can make the bible say whatever I want by selectively assigning symbols to passages because a literal interpretation would collapse my position.

[randyk]

I think all of the spiritual gifts are active today. They are needed now,in this end time great deception,more than ever. For example, I can make the bible say whatever I want by selectively assigning symbols to passages because a literal interpretation would collapse my position.

That was an interesting twist! Normally, people think the prophet would get it wrong with sensationalistic prophecies and crystal-ball reading. But you think the prophet would straighten out all of the doctrinal aberrations and cultic theologies? I could agree with that, given the prophet is a good one.

Actually, I think the Bible referred to Paul as a prophet. And he helped us all, doctrinally!

[randyk]

You are a persistent fellow, at least in posts....

Would you mind sharing the basic nature of the prophecy "against" the worship team? Would you mind including any essential details about possible clique-ishness going on? (I tend to think that it's likely there was an "inner" circle regarding worship leaders, as worship teams are often fraught with problems over who is allowed to display their talent....




Feeling spiritually "energized" ... this doesn't seem like that is necessarily limited to prophets... why not motivational speakers? Is it the style in which ANY prophet of the Bible's ministry is portrayed? That said, the Holy Spirit does energize us to do the will of God. But simply feeling energetic after a meeting is not the same thing as the fruit of the spirit which comes from within... (Peace, Love, joy, Kindness). If your energy does not translate into a meaningful increase in those things, that fruit is not from God, but is rather the emotional energy inspired by man.

Neville Johnson..... he seems to be of a decent age, so he's been around. I wonder about his track record on prophecy?
He seems to have a dark past and a scandal in his early days as a pastor in New Zealand, and he got back on track in the 90's?
Do any dead people appear in his angelic visitations? Do any of the visitations include especially feminine characters?
What are his depictions of the Lord like? (are they God glorifying? see Revelation 1....)
Are there elements of guilt, shame, anger, fear, or confusion in his visions?

I didn't know there were any scandals in Neville Johnson's life. I only recently began listening to his youtube messages. I was initially turned off by his references to angelic visitations, and discourses with Enoch and a host of biblical characters.

However, Neville grew on me, and his powerful spirit gave me something to believe in. It truly did feel like the Holy Spirit. I've been fooled by spiritual imitations of the Holy Spirit before, but Neville seemed like the real deal.

I was listening to one of his messages on the day Billy Graham died. And Neville stopped in the middle of the message he was bringing, and said he was no lune--he was seeing the face of Billy Graham. And this message was dated perhaps a year before Graham died. And I was listening to it on the day Graham died!

Anyway, strange things happen in God's world. So I'm giving Mr. Johnson a chance. And after investigating him, I learned he had worked with some people in my past that I really believed in--Judson Cornwall and Brian Bailey--two excellent, and very spiritual, teachers.

Anyway, our church is a small church, but had some musically gifted people in our worship team. One of the ladies was so gifted she appeared in competition on the 700 Club--according to her. She certainly has the ability.

But our pastor's wife, who is herself a pastor, told this gifted lady to sit down and wait on God. Trouble is, this lady has miles of experience in ministry, and is only a bit eccentric. Anyway, this lady's friend was also on the music team, and our pastor's wife also spoke to her about trouble on the worship team. In fact, our pastor's wife gave a prophecy in a Sunday service, stating that Satan was at work in the worship team!

Well, these people quit the worship team, and a split in our church developed. For 9 months a group of eight formed, recruiting a pastor and others within our church, to force the pastors out. Eventually the denomination had to step in and forced the "trouble-makers" out.

There's a lot more to it. I think there's wrong on both sides, but more wrong on the side of the "trouble-makers." Rather than try to divide the church internally they might've been better just quitting. I don't know.

But since that time, several years ago, our church has stagnated. There are no longer any children in our church, no Sunday School, and very little newcomers. I have to believe something is still wrong in our little church.

Somehow we manage financially, but I wonder for how long? When do people give up on a church like this? But I'm a loyal kind of a guy, up to a point. And so, I look to prophecy about prophecy--I have nowhere else to turn. My wife and I pray regularly about it. Still don't know much--we're just waiting on God's voice.

[Glorious]

As long as there is the earth and the words of truth, there will be the Spirit.

As long as there is the Spirit on earth, there must be prophets declaring the truth, glory of the truth, power of the truth and love of the truth.

Without prophets, saints won't prosper and multiply.