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Thread: The Old Testamentís Secret

  1. #16
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    Re: The Old Testamentís Secret

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    How did you arrive at the exodus date of 1444BC?
    The start point and the finish point are the 2 most important dates. Here is a brief explanation of how Bible historians arrive at them, and where I have made a small refinement, to arrive at the true count of the Sabbatical years.

    How we date Israel’s exodus from Egypt.

    Over the last century archaeologists have unearthed Assyrian records of kings Ahab and Jehu. (Ahab died in 853 BC) Biblicists have been able to tie the Hebrew records with those of Assyria, Babylon and Tyre and they all agree with each other. Then by tracing the reigns in the books of Kings and Chronicles backwards to Solomon, we reach the key chronological verse.
    “In the four hundred and eightieth year after the people of Israel came out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the month of Ziv, which is the second month, he began to build the house of the LORD.” (1 Kings 6:1)

    Tracing the above figure from the 4th year of Solomon, most Bible chronologists have dated the Exodus as 1446 BC. But now we get to my date of 1444 BC, two years later. My refinement is based on a small error in the reign of Omri (Ahabs father) and another in the reign of Solomon. For those interested in this technicality, Ive got some more info here. https://www.academia.edu/27691574/Ex...ate_Refinement

    How we date the start of Christ’s ministry.

    The key chronological verse in this case is John 2:20. It was the occasion when Jesus claimed he would rebuild the temple within three days, to which the Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?" (John 2:20)

    This information enables a precision dating of Christ's first ministry year because Herod began construction of the temple in BC 20 and records of his reign are reliable. When we add forty-six years to 20 BC it equals AD 27.

    Now, it is no coincidence that from 1444 BC to 27 AD is exactly 1470 years. Divide that by 49 and we get 30 Jubilees. Divide it by 7 and we get 210 weeks. Divide again by 3 and we get 3 separate eras of 70 weeks. Yeah, this has major implications for prophecy buffs. It has even bigger implications for anyone who doesn’t believe Jesus is the Son of God!
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

  2. #17
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    Re: The Old Testamentís Secret

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post

    Now, it is no coincidence that from 1444 BC to 27 AD is exactly 1470 years. Divide that by 49 and we get 30 Jubilees. Divide it by 7 and we get 210 weeks. Divide again by 3 and we get 3 separate eras of 70 weeks. Yeah, this has major implications for prophecy buffs. It has even bigger implications for anyone who doesnít believe Jesus is the Son of God!
    Make some sense of this for me. Your math is making no sense to me whatsoever.

    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    I don't agree this has a single thing to do with the first century. But for the sake of argument, let's assume we all agree it does.

    One week clearly consists of 7 years. This 7 years in the above verse would have to be a part of your 210 proposed weeks of 7 years. But it seems you are saying the 210 weeks end with 27 AD. 27 AD doesn't consist of 7 years though, it only consists of 1 year. How then can you claim this 70 weeks in Dan 9 involves these same 210 proposed weeks if you have them apparently concluding in 27 AD, and that there would still need to be another week, and that week would have to conclude the 210 weeks instead?

    In order for your 210 weeks theory to be correct, it has to also involve all of Daniel 9:27, the 70th week. If 210 weeks end from your starting point with that of 27 AD, what about Daniel 9:27 then? How can your theory possibly be correct by by not also including the 70th week in this proposed 210 weeks? It seems to me you are trying in vain to make your theories fit the Bible, and that you apparently can't see how illogical you are actually being here.

  3. #18
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    Re: The Old Testamentís Secret

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    How we date the start of Christís ministry.

    The key chronological verse in this case is John 2:20. It was the occasion when Jesus claimed he would rebuild the temple within three days, to which the Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?" (John 2:20)

    This information enables a precision dating of Christ's first ministry year because Herod began construction of the temple in BC 20 and records of his reign are reliable. When we add forty-six years to 20 BC it equals AD 27.
    Actually there a re a few problems with this calculation.
    The first is when did Herod start the construction of the temple. This is calculated using Josephus as the source.
    This is fair enough except Josephus points to the Temple being built within 18 months (Antiquities 15.11.6). This temple having been started in the 18th year of Herod's reign (ibid. 15.11.1), which Josephus calculates from when Herod has conquered Jerusalem, which means the work started at the earliest as 19 BC and was completed in 17 BC.
    Therefore 46 years from 19 BC comes to 28 AD, so you have at least one year discrepancy at this point.
    However in reality you have a far greater discrepancy as Josephus notes that this building work was completed after 18 months.
    IOW the 46 years mentioned in John 2:20 is NOT from the start of Herod rebuilding the temple, but from AFTER that the time the initial temple was finished. and THEN further building work is started. This means the 46 years starts from 17 BC, which would lead to the date of 30 AD.

  4. #19
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    Re: The Old Testamentís Secret

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    Problem with this is that the 69th week is clearly out of sync by 7 years with your Jubilee calendar. You have the Jubilee on the 69th week and not the 70th week. Yet the end of the 70th week is when all is completed for the Jew.
    Quote Originally Posted by divaD
    That's what I noticed as well … How does 70 weeks plus 70 weeks plus 69 weeks equal 210 weeks?
    Quote Originally Posted by divaD
    Make some sense of this for me. Your math is making no sense to me whatsoever ... In order for your 210 weeks theory to be correct, it has to also involve all of Daniel 9:27, the 70th week.
    I know what you’re saying. When I first began studying the Sabbath cycles I got quite baffled by it. I assumed that the last Jubilee in the long cycle (490 years) would arrive at the very end, but it doesn’t. It arrives at the beginning of the 70th week – not the end. This is made clear in Luke 4:19, a direct reference to Jubilee, and right at the start of Jesus’ ministry, AD 27.

    So yes, the Jubilee is offset by seven years and I think there is a reason for that. It was God’s intention that the fallowing of land begin after the children of Israel had finished dividing the land. They would spend the first seven years conquering, and the land sabbaths would begin then. That would have been 1437 BC if they had been obedient, and marched straight in.

    Here is a diagram that explains it better than a whole lot of words. As you can see, there always was a ‘70th week’ in-between the Jubilee and the next 70-week cycle. It was a repeating formula, and I suspect that is why Daniel separates the last ‘seven’ from the previous ‘sixty-nine.’ (Incidentally, the cycle goes right back to Jacob, but the calendar was given to Moses)

    .

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  5. #20
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    Re: The Old Testamentís Secret

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    I know what you’re saying. When I first began studying the Sabbath cycles I got quite baffled by it. I assumed that the last Jubilee in the long cycle (490 years) would arrive at the very end, but it doesn’t. It arrives at the beginning of the 70th week – not the end. This is made clear in Luke 4:19, a direct reference to Jubilee, and right at the start of Jesus’ ministry, AD 27.

    So yes, the Jubilee is offset by seven years and I think there is a reason for that. It was God’s intention that the fallowing of land begin after the children of Israel had finished dividing the land. They would spend the first seven years conquering, and the land sabbaths would begin then. That would have been 1437 BC if they had been obedient, and marched straight in.

    Here is a diagram that explains it better than a whole lot of words. As you can see, there always was a ‘70th week’ in-between the Jubilee and the next 70-week cycle. It was a repeating formula, and I suspect that is why Daniel separates the last ‘seven’ from the previous ‘sixty-nine.’ (Incidentally, the cycle goes right back to Jacob, but the calendar was given to Moses)
    Where there is an issue is that when Jesus started His ministry, He was PROCLAIMING what was to come, yet it had NOT YET come.
    The Jubilee is found in Him, just as He is our rest, our Sabbath.

    I follow your diagram, yet what happened in 464 BC? What happened in 954 and 947 BC? What happened in 1437 BC?
    You also have an initial week missed to get you to the first block of 70 weeks.

  6. #21
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    Re: The Old Testamentís Secret

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Where there is an issue is that when Jesus started His ministry, He was PROCLAIMING what was to come, yet it had NOT YET come.
    The Jubilee is found in Him, just as He is our rest, our Sabbath.
    Luke 4 is Jesus announcing the favorable year of the Lord is being fulfilled right now, today.

    Luke 4:18-22

    18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
    Because He has anointed Me
    To preach the gospel to the poor;
    He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
    To proclaim liberty to the captives
    And recovery of sight to the blind,
    To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
    19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."

    20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."
    NKJV

    Many believe that Isaiah 61 (which Jesus quoted) and Luke 4 speak about the Jubilee year, which many believe was renamed to "The Favorable Year of the Lord". If Cyber is correct, then this would be a very interesting study indeed!
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  7. #22
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    Re: The Old Testamentís Secret

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    I follow your diagram, yet what happened in 464 BC? What happened in 954 and 947 BC? What happened in 1437 BC?
    You also have an initial week missed to get you to the first block of 70 weeks.
    Aww Glory. There's a limit to how much can be stuffed into a diagram. Get the book!

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    is the desire of our hearts."
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  8. #23
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    Re: The Old Testamentís Secret

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Luke 4 is Jesus announcing the favorable year of the Lord is being fulfilled right now, today.

    Luke 4:18-22

    18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
    Because He has anointed Me
    To preach the gospel to the poor;
    He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
    To proclaim liberty to the captives
    And recovery of sight to the blind,
    To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
    19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."

    20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."
    NKJV

    Many believe that Isaiah 61 (which Jesus quoted) and Luke 4 speak about the Jubilee year, which many believe was renamed to "The Favorable Year of the Lord". If Cyber is correct, then this would be a very interesting study indeed!
    I fully accept that Jesus was announcing the favourable year. yet what did that mean? A single year of favour, or a time of favour? Was the second year of Jesus' ministry not also that year? And the third wasn't that also? And wasn't His death the true moment when that favour was out poured?
    You see when Jesus quoted Isaiah 61 He didn't read the rest of the verse, which states "and the day of the vengeance of our God. to comfort all who mourn", which as prophesied by Isaiah means it is speaking of not a single year, but a period of time, which comes to an end with vengeance but also comfort.

    My point was that the PROCLAMATION was not Jesus saying - hey everybody this year is the Jubilee Year, better tell everyone your debt are now finished. He didn't preach that once, not even to the Pharisees, to whom He could have challenged them for NOT keeping a Jubilee.
    The purpose of the statement was that IN Him is this ALL found - He IS the Jubilee, just as He IS our rest.
    Last edited by ForHisglory; Apr 27th 2018 at 05:50 AM.

  9. #24
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    Re: The Old Testamentís Secret

    The video (post #4) mentions in passing an awkward question that comes up with discussions about the Jubilee cycle. Was it 50 or 49 years? Christians tend to rely on rabbinic authority when it comes to these things, since it is assumed they know best. Unfortunately, the rabbis are in disagreement about it. Some are of the opinion that an extra fiftieth year must be slotted in. Isn’t that what the Torah says?

    “Count off seven sabbaths of years - seven times seven years - so that the seven sabbaths of years amount to a period of forty-nine years ... Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you ... The fiftieth year shall be a jubilee for you.”

    Others argue that the fiftieth year must be part of the forty-nine; otherwise the Jubilee cycle would get out of phase with the Sabbath. Divide seven into fifty and see? Try seven into one hundred? It doesn’t work! I believe the answer is: Sabbaths began 1st Abib just like every year did, but the fiftieth year was announced with a fanfare of trumpets on the seventh month of the forty-ninth year. This started on 1st Tishri, straddling the last half of the forty-ninth and the first half of the first year of the next Sabbatic cycle.

    Here’s another diagram. Note, the red and purple dots indicate Sabbath and Jubilee years.



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  10. #25
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    Book Offer

    Book offer to members reading this topic:

    The video is brief. I have a detailed book related to the Ďweeks' that I published a few years back. I would love to get it into your hands because I earnestly believe in its importance. If you don't mind giving me a postal address (perhaps c/o a church office if you donít want to share personal details) I'll send a copy without charge.

    My website is in maintenance at the moment, so here is a description in Amazon:

    But donít get the Amazon copy. I will send a free copy. Just reply by email to bread@5loaves2fishes.net

    Best regards,

    Christian Gedge (aka Cyberseeker)
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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