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Thread: Churches handling personal issues

  1. #16

    Re: Churches handling personal issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Yes it is sad. And while I don't disagree with you , I will reiterate the danger in leaving the body of Christ ( not necessarily a particular church ) for ANY reason. You may have to look , but I would be willing to say that there is a decent enough church near you to attend. That is unless you live in China or the like.


    There are biblical reasons to plant churches and then there are not. There are biblical reasons for leaving a church, then there are not. I don't pretend to know your exact situation, but I am telling you that it can be dangerous. I ( and several other church leaders on this site ) could write a book about the people who just KNEW that they were justified to leave the body when God absolutely did not tell them go, get sifted like wheat. It's real.

    I can speak from actual experience here David so please hear me. To plant a church without specific call and instruction from God can be a recipe for disaster. There are places in the jungles where I just knew that we needed a church plant, but God had other plans, and as we waited, we realized why He didn't allow us there. Even Paul was told NOT to go to certain places, but only spent time where "doors of opportunity" were opened "for fruitful work". Gathering 2 or 3 in His name is awesome for bible study , or even at the onset of a church plant, so don't misunderstand me. But to remove yourself from the body and immerse yourself into a small group where you aren't equipped will leave you as an infant in Christ. And soon enough , just like almost everyone else who follows this pattern does.... you will grow to dislike "organized" church. Read the first four chapter of Ephesians. God calls people to edify and equip the saints. If this isn't happening, then you aren't having church brother.


    Apples and oranges. Read the first chapter of Acts.. What do you see ? An exact number of saints attending the first church service. then by the time you get to chapter 3 what happened ? BAMMM !!! the church exploded. God was equipping the church to reach the world. This is still what He is doing.



    Brother.... I love you in the name of Jesus, but without the body you have zero accountability. Please read what I'm saying and take it to heart. The problem with separating yourself voluntarily from the body of Christ is that not only will you suffer for it ( if it's not in God's will) but so will others who are needing you to equip and edify them ...Also you are splitting hairs here. I would say that your partly right as there are those who don't have churches to go to... but by your own admission, your not one of those people. I would also say that in the end when Christ comes back , that He gets His church.. we are His bride. Don't trivialize the body of Christ David. And I'm not insinuating that you are.



    Smug ? Come on man. Really ? I'm shooting you straight and doing it out of love for YOU... If you hang around this board long enough you will see a pattern emerge. Those who have separated themselves from the body have the absolute worst doctrine and understanding of God on here. Look at the Bible chat thread on losing your salvation for instance. The man who is preaching "sinless perfection" .... wait for it .... has separated himself from the body of Christ. He is one example of MANY on this board who have done the same exact thing.

    Why do these things happen ? Because his "church" doesn't edify him, nor could it because it doesn't exist. He doesn't have the God called pastor as outlined in Ephesians to properly preach the word to him. So now , he has formulated his own doctrine and has bought in hook line and sinker into flat out heretical teaching. While I'm not saying you would do so, it's a reality that happens far more than you are aware of.
    The only way a person can leave the Body of Christ is to reject Christ Himself, it is Universal. We are born again into Christ and adopted into the family of God, this is all supernatural and has nothing to do with a building called a church.

    Going to a building called a church is a good way to meet like minded people (hopefully), but if that place causes harm to your walk, then maybe it isn't right for that person.

    The churches themselves are actually divided on beliefs, hence the vast amount of denominations, which ones are not the Body of Christ, or which ones are the Body of Christ? Are churches meeting in homes, with only 4 members not included in the Body of Christ? If there are churches in homes in China and there are only 3 people who go, are they the Body of Christ?

    Who is to say these are or are not the Body of Christ? Do local pastors determine it? People on forums determine it? Who would decide this?

    I wasn't speaking directly about you being smug, but when people ask you what church you attend, if you say none, then you are automatically "not in the Body of Christ" and they are self righteous, like it is they who deem a person in the Body or not.

    Do you see what I mean?

  2. #17
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    Re: Churches handling personal issues

    The only way a person can leave the Body of Christ is to reject Christ Himself, it is Universal. We are born again into Christ and adopted into the family of God, this is all supernatural and has nothing to do with a building called a church.
    There is the Body of Christ ( all believer's everywhere ) and the Body of Christ ( your local congregation of believer's). You are correct on point one. No argument there. But, point two is what I'm discussing , just to be clear.
    Going to a building called a church is a good way to meet like minded people (hopefully), but if that place causes harm to your walk, then maybe it isn't right for that person.
    the building is not the church but the congregation of the people in that building are. And if that place causes you harm, then I would suggest finding the cause of it, and addressing it. You have already stated that you have, in which case it may be time to move on , which you say you have.

    The churches themselves are actually divided on beliefs, hence the vast amount of denominations, which ones are not the Body of Christ, or which ones are the Body of Christ? Are churches meeting in homes, with only 4 members not included in the Body of Christ? If there are churches in homes in China and there are only 3 people who go, are they the Body of Christ?
    Let's stick with the subject at hand, not denominational differences. You said you have tons of churches in your area. I would suggest searching until you find one. Keep an open mind. While I am not saying what you're doing is wrong for now ( meeting with others for study ) I would be careful to know exactly what God's plan is for you concerning what particular body.

    Who is to say these are or are not the Body of Christ? Do local pastors determine it? People on forums determine it? Who would decide this?
    Read Ephesians. Read Acts. The word of God decides.
    I wasn't speaking directly about you being smug, but when people ask you what church you attend, if you say none, then you are automatically "not in the Body of Christ" and they are self righteous, like it is they who deem a person in the Body or not.
    You know that's not what I was saying. But I understand your point.
    Do you see what I mean?
    Sure do. I'll also add to what "church" consists of ... Preaching of the word of God by someone called to preach it, worshiping God in song, edification of the believer's, and helping those in need.

  3. #18

    Re: Churches handling personal issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    There is the Body of Christ ( all believer's everywhere ) and the Body of Christ ( your local congregation of believer's). You are correct on point one. No argument there. But, point two is what I'm discussing , just to be clear.


    the building is not the church but the congregation of the people in that building are. And if that place causes you harm, then I would suggest finding the cause of it, and addressing it. You have already stated that you have, in which case it may be time to move on , which you say you have.



    Let's stick with the subject at hand, not denominational differences. You said you have tons of churches in your area. I would suggest searching until you find one. Keep an open mind. While I am not saying what you're doing is wrong for now ( meeting with others for study ) I would be careful to know exactly what God's plan is for you concerning what particular body.



    Read Ephesians. Read Acts. The word of God decides.


    You know that's not what I was saying. But I understand your point.


    Sure do. I'll also add to what "church" consists of ... Preaching of the word of God by someone called to preach it, worshiping God in song, edification of the believer's, and helping those in need.
    There is only one Body of Christ, regardless where the person fellowships or worships. In Acts, they did meet in people's homes. I am not saying it's better or worse, I just think people should not judge another because they aren't attending a religious organization at the moment.

  4. #19
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    Re: Churches handling personal issues

    That's what I said David. Don't get hung up on a misunderstanding. There is THE BODY aka all of us. then your local congregation... aka "the church of Ephesus, the church of Corinth" etc.

    I'm not judging you, I'm warning you. One is not out of love , the other is.

  5. #20

    Re: Churches handling personal issues

    I must say that I am truly lucky to be able to attend the church that I do. This past month, we focused on notorious sinners and how Jesus came to heal them. We talked a lot about how we wish we had more non-believers in our seats than we do. It is true, the sick need a hospital, not the healthy, and our church welcomes any and all. Our pastor and volunteer staff are the most loving people you'd ever meet. Not all churches are so close-minded. Keep up the search and you will find your gem that allows you to feel God's love just by walking through the door.

  6. #21
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    Re: Churches handling personal issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Faithful Joshua View Post
    I must say that I am truly lucky to be able to attend the church that I do. This past month, we focused on notorious sinners and how Jesus came to heal them. We talked a lot about how we wish we had more non-believers in our seats than we do. It is true, the sick need a hospital, not the healthy, and our church welcomes any and all. Our pastor and volunteer staff are the most loving people you'd ever meet. Not all churches are so close-minded. Keep up the search and you will find your gem that allows you to feel God's love just by walking through the door.
    This is so good. I love it when people are drawn to the body of Christ to hear the Gospel and be healed. Thanks for sharing.

  7. #22
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    Re: Churches handling personal issues

    In Revelations Christ points out that of the 7 churches, only 2 are the true Church.
    When Charles came here, i already was a member of that church for a couple of years. He instantly recognized their false theology but also knew to be patient for me to see that myself. The turning point came when the minister came to our house as he had done many times before and we were talking about homose*uality and he said that he was looking forward to marry a gay couple in church. That made my stomache turn. But it got worse.... The OT we should just tear out of the Bible as it didnt apply anymore and the scripture Charles presented to him about what God thinks of marrying two men or two women in Romans didnt apply anymore according to him. In fact he said openly that he believes that only the gospels and Acts should stay in the Bible and the rest should go out. I was thinking are you lying then when the church leaders tell you to preach from Romans? Because then if you dont believe your own teachings, how can you help and explain to your flock what it means?? And he topped it off with saying that a personal relationship with God was impossible so then and there we decided to stop the housecalls. When the elder who already came to our house for 11 years refused to do Biblestudy with us (we are 99% housebound) and when we brought up a few verses which made it clear that she picked and chose what she wanted to believe as well as being in favor of a weird kind of universalism (everybody will go to Heaven but the atheists had to be in the earth first to be taught the truth before they could appear before God) we also let her go the same way and never looked back again.

    Love you,
    Mieke 😘

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