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Thread: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

  1. #691
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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    I want to bring up some verses for the next part, but I can't until I have an answer from you

    This theology, you say that ONE sin, God cuts you off... so if God tells you to do something, is it a sin to refuse and in that refusal (sin), will God cut you off?

    OR... as I've been saying, will stay with you and convict you of the error of refusal, for the purpose of having you choose to be obedient (stop sinning)??
    If you are not talking from the Bible then you are really not talking with any kind of spiritual authority or truth for me. My authority is the Bible and not your thoughts.

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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    While this is a response, I can't discern an answer that addresses the question that informs me whether or not God was with you when you were sinning and He was the one who helped you turn from that sin, SO...

    Was God still with you when you began to willfully sin and He helped you to turn back from that sin?
    As I stated before, when a person commits grievous sin, and they do not repent, they are unsaved and God is not abiding with them anymore. But they can come back by seeking God's forgiveness as long as they did not reject Jesus as their Savior. James 5:19-20 and the Parable of the Prodigal Son talk about backsliding into sin and becoming unsaved and then saved again. Hebrews 6:4-6 talks about apostasy or rejection of Christ (i.e. to depart from the living God (See Hebrews 3:12).

    Please take not that the Scriptures apply to me like they do everyone else.
    I am not above God's Word anymore than you are.

    If you won't bring up Scripture, then we have nothing to talk about. I already told you that I will not answer questions that I feel are hostile or that seek to attack me that are personal from folks like yourself who do not believe the Bible as I do. So you are wasting your time in asking me questions that seek to condemn me. So I think you should skip to part 2. If not, I am just going to either ignore your posts or keep saying the same thing to you over and over.

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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    If you are not talking from the Bible then you are really not talking with any kind of spiritual authority or truth for me. My authority is the Bible and not your thoughts.
    I just informed you that once you address this, I will raise scriptures... the purpose is to help you and ALL I find, is your resistance.

    Let me make this one easier then and I'll break it down step by step and THEN, I will raise the scriptures needed to support what will be my response to all your answers.

    If God tells someone to "do something" and they refuse and run away from doing it... is the disobedience as sin?

    If sin, would God abandon them (cut them off)??
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    As I stated before, when a person commits grievous sin, and they do not repent, they are unsaved and God is not abiding with them anymore. But they can come back by seeking God's forgiveness as long as they did not reject Jesus as their Savior. James 5:19-20 and the Parable of the Prodigal Son talk about backsliding into sin and becoming unsaved and then saved again. Hebrews 6:4-6 talks about apostasy or rejection of Christ (i.e. to depart from the living God (See Hebrews 3:12).

    Please take not that the Scriptures apply to me like they do everyone else.
    I am not above God's Word anymore than you are.
    OK... a little closer I think.

    When you did the sins you were doing, was God with you during the time of sinning and He helped you turn away from the sins?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    Please expound how you think this relates to Luke 9:62.
    In fact, please tell me first what you think Luke 9:62 even means according to your belief.
    It relates to you Jason thinking you are right (rich), but with no discernment.

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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    OK... a little closer I think.

    When you did the sins you were doing, was God with you during the time of sinning and He helped you turn away from the sins?
    God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
    I believe there are believers who have fallen away from salvation and never came back, too.
    I believe a saved person can become permanently unsaved, as well.
    I mean, stop and think for a moment. If your belief was true, then names would not be able to be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. They would just forever be there. The fact that a name can be blotted out suggests that a person can go from a saved state to an unsaved state (See Revelation 3:5).

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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
    I believe there are believers who have fallen away from salvation and never came back, too.
    I believe a saved person can become permanently unsaved, as well.
    I mean, stop and think for a moment. If your belief was true, then names would not be able to be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. They would just forever be there. The fact that a name can be blotted out suggests that a person can go from a saved state to an unsaved state (See Revelation 3:5).
    OK.. a little closer but not answering the question directly...

    Was God still with you when you began to willfully sin and He helped you to turn back from that sin?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    OK... a little closer I think.

    When you did the sins you were doing, was God with you during the time of sinning and He helped you turn away from the sins?
    God can help a believer come back and be saved, but it is not a guarantee. A believer can still resist God. Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (in the sense of like how one would misplace one's car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

    Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:


    • Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
    • The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) (Only temporary lost salvation) *
    • Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
    • Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)
    • Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)
    • Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
    • Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)
    • Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)
    • Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)


    And here is a list of potential fallen believers:


    • The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)
    • Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
    • The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)
    • Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
    • Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
    • Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)
    • Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
    • Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
    • Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)
    • The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19, 20) (Only temporary lost salvation) *



    For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).

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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    It relates to you Jason thinking you are right (rich), but with no discernment.
    Nice attack against my character but that really doesn't prove your belief is correct in any way. Instead, why don't you try explaining what Luke 9:62 means according to your belief.

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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    Nice attack against my character but that really doesn't prove your belief is correct in any way. Instead, why don't you try explaining what Luke 9:62 means according to your belief.
    Why? I have not seen you engaging in Scripture I or others have given. You just dismiss them and go on to your own pet verses. It sure does not look if you came to debate or be edified, but to come and teach. This all has agreed to be false with Scripture.

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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    God can help a believer come back and be saved, but it is not a guarantee. A believer can still resist God. Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (in the sense of like how one would misplace one's car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

    Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:


    • Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
    • The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) (Only temporary lost salvation) *
    • Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
    • Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)
    • Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)
    • Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
    • Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)
    • Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)
    • Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)


    And here is a list of potential fallen believers:


    • The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)
    • Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
    • The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)
    • Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
    • Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
    • Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)
    • Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
    • Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
    • Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)
    • The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19, 20) (Only temporary lost salvation) *



    For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).
    Hmmm, still not answering the question. A response though, no doubt about that

    When you did the sins you were doing, was God with you during the time of sinning and He helped you turn away from the sins?

    Would it help you to be honest, if you got to know me more?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    I am not impressed that you read good books on hermeneutics. Scripture is ultimately taught by the Spirit and not in the wisdom of men. .
    The Spirit has taught me. Why do we disagree on grace/works?
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    Well, I have not changed anything that I have believed by talking to anyone here. If anything, I have become more grieved by my time spent here. The other forum I talk on is not exactly like this. There are actually a few there who will stand up and fight for what God's Word says (with me) on this topic in Scripture.
    Trust me, your grieving is a result of your theological error being exposed.

    Maybe the Holy Spirit is trying to get through to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    Past sins can be forgiven, but future unrepentant sins are not automatically forgiven.
    So God is stuck in time as we are?
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    Most here believe 1 John 1:8, Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 is a declaration that the believer will always be in some kind of sin in their life. They believe that overcoming sin is not possible this side of Heaven. Naturally, multiple sins awaits their future as a matter of fact for them.
    Another bogus assumption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    "He became sin who knew no sin , that I may become the righteousness of God"....

    Thank you Jesus for bearing a burden that not one single person could ever bear. Thank you for your righteousness, and not my own. Forgive me , a sinner !!!
    Amen. Glory to God.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Is eternal security or a sin and still saved belief Biblical - Pt 2

    You know Jason after attending our Pentecost service today I realize that one can not obey God's command by following your doctrine. Do you know why it is impossible?

    We know that God's command is to love God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself. To love one's neighbour one must become the servant of your neighbour and to do upon him as unto yourself in love. Now if one is to continuously keep one's eye on yourself and the law to make sure that you do not by any chance sin and become separated from God, then there is no way that you can love God and your neighbour as the Bible teaches. Then you are serving two masters, love and the law. It will give you a hardened heart like the Pharisees in not helping their neighbour because of the law and not doing good, which is what God demands. See parable of the good Samaritan.

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