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Thread: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

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    Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    The topic of this thread is taken from the prophecies found in Ez 39.

    Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


    The timing of this verse is meaning after 'my judgment that I have executed'(verse 21), where we see that judgment is against Gog and his multitude accompanying him.

    The question one must honestly ask themselves, has this judgment He is to execute, has it already been fulfilled? And if after asking oneself that, and if the answer is no, the next question one must honestly ask themselves, who would the LORD have been hiding His face from? Would He have been hiding His face from believing Jews, or from unbelieving Jews? Believing Jews would be meaning Jews who have converted to Christianity. Unbelieving Jews would be meaning Jews who hadn't converted to Christianity. Which makes better sense? The former or the latter below?

    Neither will I hide my face any more from believing Jews, those that have converted to Christianity, IOW the church: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

    Neither will I hide my face any more from unbelieving Jews, those that have not converted to Christianity: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

    It seems to me then, God has hardly washed His hands of all unbelieving Jews who don't convert to Christianity eventually. If that was true, how does one explain that God no longer hides His face from them, not before He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude, but not until after He executes His judgment on Gog and His multitude instead?

    Anyone who still claims that the Jews currently occupying that region in the ME, that these are fakes, thus not God's people, and that the regathering back into the land that began in the last century, that this was not of God, how does one explain the prophecies in Ez 39 then? Someone has to fulfill them, otherwise they are false prophecies. Obviously the ones that fulfill them are unbelieving Jews, which then fits a good majority of the Jews currently regathered to that particular region in the ME.

    Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

    And guess what, meaning to those who deny unbelieving Jews are still God's people, regardless? Verse 7 clearly indicates they are still His people, and that His people meant here are meaning the same people He no longer hides His face from once He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude. How then can some of you on this board speak so demeaning of the Jews currently regathered in that region in the ME, in spite of prophecies, such as are found in Ez 39?

    Fortunately most on this board don't demean the unbelieving Jews currently occupying that region in the ME, yet some on this board apparently do. And the ones that do are mainly the ones you see butting heads with Fenris at times. Where you see these same ones claiming the Jews currently regathered in that region in the ME, that these are trespassers, that they are no longer God's people, that their regathering was not of God, so on and so on. If that is supposed to be true, debunk the OP then...seriously.

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    Faces are a manifest token of identification. God's face is the manifest token of his limitless glory and holiness. For mortal man to gaze into that glory meant certain death to him. To no longer be able to "profane his name anymore" means that they (Israel) will have a manifest token of his very presence dwelling among them. There will be no more false testimonies to his unending glory and holiness. God will be dwelling among them, either by a temple or the Lord (JESUS) himself. Without a temple, and with Christ dwelling in heaven, God's face has been hidden from them for many moons. So it is in the future that God will again dwell among them.

    *[[Eze 20:44]] KJV* And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

    Israel, will seek, return to, and find the Lord their God, because he will deal with them (and we are talking mainly about the time AFTER Jacobs trouble) according to his names sake and his loving nature, rather than according to their iniquities and their wicked ways. In the time of Jacobs trouble, he will deal with them according to THEIR ways, but then he will show them unmerited grace ON THEIR ROAD to salvation. It's almost as if it is just the opposite of our personal road to salvation. We believed and became the recipients of his grace. With them, he will show them his grace, THEN they will believe on him and receive him.
    Blessings
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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    When God turns His face upon them, then this speaks of blessing and more, and it also speaks of them looking upon the one whom they have pierced...
    It is a similar thing to what God states to Haggai in 2:19
    God turns His face to them, to bless them, so it speaks of the start of a change, but they are called to give careful thought and respond back to God.

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    When God turns His face upon them, then this speaks of blessing and more, and it also speaks of them looking upon the one whom they have pierced...
    It is a similar thing to what God states to Haggai in 2:19
    God turns His face to them, to bless them, so it speaks of the start of a change, but they are called to give careful thought and respond back to God.
    So when do you see the time meant in Ez 39 to be meaning, where it officially comes the time He no longer hides His face from them? Has that time already come? Or is it still yet to come?

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    So when do you see the time meant in Ez 39 to be meaning, where it officially comes the time He no longer hides His face from them? Has that time already come? Or is it still yet to come?
    I see this occurring in two parts (a bit like Zechariah 14.)
    Eze 38:8 speaks to me of the present situation, which leads to a future invasion of Israel.
    Eze 38:20 then speaks of the Ac coming and taking control, killing the 2W, yet at the same time God acts, and there is the great earthquake, which for me fits Zech 14:5 and Rev 11:13 (an d 12:15)
    Then the rest of Ezekiel 38 & 39 peaks of the time of the vials being pured out against the Ac and those who take the mark.
    Eze 39:26 is a recap of how they were and so why God who had brought them in, had let be exiled, and yet He will bring them back again.
    So I have Eze 38 & 39 really being about now to the time of tribulation, the flight into the wilderness, but His protection of them and His punishment on those nations (the 10 kingdoms) who acted against Israel.

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    daviD, In your OP, you ask when the Gog/Magog attack has happened, who is it that God will reveal Himself to.
    This is answered in 2 Thessalonians 1:10 .....amongst all believers.... Not to anyone who has failed to believe now.

    The Jewish nation of Israel is part of God's plan, they have been helped by God in their wars and prosperity. But they still reject Jesus, so this places them is the same category as every other ungodly nation. The Lord Jesus is about to administer His Judgement and punishment of the nations and they too will drink the wine of God's wrath. Obadiah 1:15-16, Revelation 14:17-20

    Who is the true Israel of God?

    Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises? It isn’t those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who assert they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.
    The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and in their moral and ethical behavior, prove they belong to Him. 1 Peter 2:9-10

    It was always possible for foreigners to join Israel, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant:
    Leviticus 19:33-34…foreigners are to be treated as native born among you…..
    Isaiah 56:1-8….foreigners who give their allegiance to Me will be acceptable in My House of Prayer…..I shall add them to those who are already gathered.
    Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather…
    .John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is counted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18

    So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:
    1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. There are no proofs of ancestry back to Abraham extant today.
    2/ They cannot become an Israelite by conversion to Judaism.
    3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17

    Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20
    So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel. Jews have been cut off, but can be grafted back, as individual Christian believers. Bible prophecy proves that only a remnant will do that. Ezekiel 6:1-14, Zechariah 13:7-9, Romans 9:27
    WE Christians are all the born again people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8

    This truth that all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. We will never go to live in heaven, but eventually heaven comes down to earth. Revelation 20:4
    The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4
    It will be all the true, righteous Christian people that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Ezekiel 39:21-29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Ephesians 1:11, Romans 9:24-26

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I see this occurring in two parts (a bit like Zechariah 14.)
    Eze 38:8 speaks to me of the present situation, which leads to a future invasion of Israel.
    Eze 38:20 then speaks of the Ac coming and taking control, killing the 2W, yet at the same time God acts, and there is the great earthquake, which for me fits Zech 14:5 and Rev 11:13 (an d 12:15)
    Then the rest of Ezekiel 38 & 39 peaks of the time of the vials being pured out against the Ac and those who take the mark.
    Eze 39:26 is a recap of how they were and so why God who had brought them in, had let be exiled, and yet He will bring them back again.
    So I have Eze 38 & 39 really being about now to the time of tribulation, the flight into the wilderness, but His protection of them and His punishment on those nations (the 10 kingdoms) who acted against Israel.
    I can see it playing out like that. No major disputes here that I can think of. Based on what you wrote here, this seems to indicate that when He will no longer hide His face from them ever again, that time hasn't officially arrived yet.

    And if that time hasn't officially arrived yet, those Christians who claim the regathering back into their land that began in the last century, that this was not of God, are in opposition to God's plans then, concerning His people, the same ones He has hidden His face from. Speaking for myself, it is never a good idea to be opposed to God's plans when it comes to His people. You will never be on the winning side of things in the end. No one can oppose God's plans and actually think they will succeed in the end, and that God won't.

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    daviD, In your OP, you ask when the Gog/Magog attack has happened, who is it that God will reveal Himself to.
    This is answered in 2 Thessalonians 1:10 .....amongst all believers.... Not to anyone who has failed to believe now.

    The Jewish nation of Israel is part of God's plan, they have been helped by God in their wars and prosperity. But they still reject Jesus, so this places them is the same category as every other ungodly nation. The Lord Jesus is about to administer His Judgement and punishment of the nations and they too will drink the wine of God's wrath. Obadiah 1:15-16, Revelation 14:17-20

    Who is the true Israel of God?

    Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises? It isn’t those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who assert they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.
    The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and in their moral and ethical behavior, prove they belong to Him. 1 Peter 2:9-10

    It was always possible for foreigners to join Israel, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant:
    Leviticus 19:33-34…foreigners are to be treated as native born among you…..
    Isaiah 56:1-8….foreigners who give their allegiance to Me will be acceptable in My House of Prayer…..I shall add them to those who are already gathered.
    Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather…
    .John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is counted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18

    So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:
    1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. There are no proofs of ancestry back to Abraham extant today.
    2/ They cannot become an Israelite by conversion to Judaism.
    3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17

    Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20
    So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel. Jews have been cut off, but can be grafted back, as individual Christian believers. Bible prophecy proves that only a remnant will do that. Ezekiel 6:1-14, Zechariah 13:7-9, Romans 9:27
    WE Christians are all the born again people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8

    This truth that all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. We will never go to live in heaven, but eventually heaven comes down to earth. Revelation 20:4
    The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4
    It will be all the true, righteous Christian people that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Ezekiel 39:21-29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Ephesians 1:11, Romans 9:24-26
    The main point I was making in the OP, when He no longer hides His face, that is meaning after He has executed His judgment on Gog and His multitude. Until then, He is obviously still hiding His face from the ones meant in Ez 39. In light of that, your arguments above seem to fall short of addressing any of that.

    My take is, as we speak, He is still hiding His face from someone, and that sometime in the future He no longer will be. Who would He still be currently hiding His face from if not unbelieving Jews?

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I can see it playing out like that. No major disputes here that I can think of. Based on what you wrote here, this seems to indicate that when He will no longer hide His face from them ever again, that time hasn't officially arrived yet.

    And if that time hasn't officially arrived yet, those Christians who claim the regathering back into their land that began in the last century, that this was not of God, are in opposition to God's plans then, concerning His people, the same ones He has hidden His face from. Speaking for myself, it is never a good idea to be opposed to God's plans when it comes to His people. You will never be on the winning side of things in the end. No one can oppose God's plans and actually think they will succeed in the end, and that God won't.
    Yes, basically we either have to see Eze 38 & 39 as speaking of the return from exile in 536 BC and then a far later attack by Rome, and then an even longer time before God acts. Otherwise,as I do, to see this explanation as looking to a future when Israel would be dispersed, even as they had been, then being brought back in the land, and then a final quick exile and return. I can understand why some might think there is no quick exile, but I think 39:26 sort of clarifies this, along with the fact that this 7 years and 7 months haven't happened yet in history.

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    The main point I was making in the OP, when He no longer hides His face, that is meaning after He has executed His judgment on Gog and His multitude. Until then, He is obviously still hiding His face from the ones meant in Ez 39. In light of that, your arguments above seem to fall short of addressing any of that.

    My take is, as we speak, He is still hiding His face from someone, and that sometime in the future He no longer will be. Who would He still be currently hiding His face from if not unbelieving Jews?
    Obviously, since Jesus went back to heaven, God's Face has been hidden from mankind. He has allowed us to go our own way and although many have kept the faith, most have ignored and rejected the Gospel and now the world is in a serious state of apostasy; in fact we are as in the days of Noah.

    My point in #6, is that there is only two types of people in God's eyes. Those who have faith in Him and all the rest who don't. Soon there will happen the many prophesied Day of the Lord's wrath, that will change the world, as referred to in 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9. THEN He will reveal Himself to His faithful Christian believers. He will be seen by them, standing on Mt Zion, Revelation 14:1 and Rev 7:1-9

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    Psalm 80:3
    O God, restore us And cause Your face to shine upon us, and we will be saved.


    Psalm 80:7
    O God of hosts, restore us And cause Your face to shine upon us, and we will be saved.


    Psalm 80:19
    O Lord God of hosts, restore us; Cause Your face to shine upon us, and we will be saved.

    2 Corinthians 4:6
    For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

    Gods face has been revealed and its Jesus Christ.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    I'm rethinking my position on some of Luke 21, based on the following possible connections between Luke 21 and Ezekiel 39, where yesterday as I was formulating a post for this thread, the following is what I ended up with.

    Ez 39 clearly indicates God is hiding His face until a time when He no longer is.

    Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
    18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
    19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
    20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
    21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
    22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
    23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
    24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
    25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
    26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
    27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
    28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
    29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.



    Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

    Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    so fell they all by the sword(Ezekiel 39:23)....And they shall fall by the edge of the sword(Luke 21:24)

    and gave them into the hand of their enemies(Ezekiel 39:23)...and shall be led away captive into all nations(Luke 21:24)

    because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them (Ezekiel 39:23).... until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled (Luke 21:24).

    Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD....For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
    And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob(Romans 11:25-26)

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    If one excises the Jews from the equation, there are many verses in the bible that cause the same problems as the one in Ezekiel. For example, my sig from Isaiah: "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you. With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord...


    Who did God forsake? Who is God going to gather? Who did God hide his countenance from in wrath?
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Psalm 80:3
    O God, restore us And cause Your face to shine upon us, and we will be saved.


    Psalm 80:7
    O God of hosts, restore us And cause Your face to shine upon us, and we will be saved.


    Psalm 80:19
    O Lord God of hosts, restore us; Cause Your face to shine upon us, and we will be saved.

    2 Corinthians 4:6
    For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

    Gods face has been revealed and its Jesus Christ.
    Nothing I would dispute here, yet this doesn't really address the OP, since the OP is asking when He no longer hides His face from the house of Israel meant in Ez 39. Keeping in mind that the text indicates He will no longer hide His face from them once He has executed judgment on Gog and his multitude. So, has He already executed judgment on Gog and his multitude? If the answer is no, that has to mean the last verse in Ez 39 has not been fulfilled yet.

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    Re: Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Neither will I hide my face any more from them

    The topic of this thread is taken from the prophecies found in Ez 39.

    Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


    The timing of this verse is meaning after 'my judgment that I have executed'(verse 21), where we see that judgment is against Gog and his multitude accompanying him.

    The question one must honestly ask themselves, has this judgment He is to execute, has it already been fulfilled? And if after asking oneself that, and if the answer is no, the next question one must honestly ask themselves, who would the LORD have been hiding His face from? Would He have been hiding His face from believing Jews, or from unbelieving Jews? Believing Jews would be meaning Jews who have converted to Christianity. Unbelieving Jews would be meaning Jews who hadn't converted to Christianity. Which makes better sense? The former or the latter below?

    Neither will I hide my face any more from believing Jews, those that have converted to Christianity, IOW the church: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

    Neither will I hide my face any more from unbelieving Jews, those that have not converted to Christianity: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

    It seems to me then, God has hardly washed His hands of all unbelieving Jews who don't convert to Christianity eventually. If that was true, how does one explain that God no longer hides His face from them, not before He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude, but not until after He executes His judgment on Gog and His multitude instead?

    Anyone who still claims that the Jews currently occupying that region in the ME, that these are fakes, thus not God's people, and that the regathering back into the land that began in the last century, that this was not of God, how does one explain the prophecies in Ez 39 then? Someone has to fulfill them, otherwise they are false prophecies. Obviously the ones that fulfill them are unbelieving Jews, which then fits a good majority of the Jews currently regathered to that particular region in the ME.

    Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

    And guess what, meaning to those who deny unbelieving Jews are still God's people, regardless? Verse 7 clearly indicates they are still His people, and that His people meant here are meaning the same people He no longer hides His face from once He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude. How then can some of you on this board speak so demeaning of the Jews currently regathered in that region in the ME, in spite of prophecies, such as are found in Ez 39?

    Fortunately most on this board don't demean the unbelieving Jews currently occupying that region in the ME, yet some on this board apparently do. And the ones that do are mainly the ones you see butting heads with Fenris at times. Where you see these same ones claiming the Jews currently regathered in that region in the ME, that these are trespassers, that they are no longer God's people, that their regathering was not of God, so on and so on. If that is supposed to be true, debunk the OP then...seriously.
    I agree. The unbelieving Jews, presently in Israel and elsewhere, are still "Israel," and will be restored as a spiritual nation. To say the British are not God's People, or Americans are not God's People, or the Russians or Chinese are not God's People, is begging the question: Why did God call his 12 apostles to go out to the far corners of the world to reach every nation? Is Israel alone to be excluded as "God's People?"

    Clearly, as you well illustrate, the Scriptures call for an eschatological regathering of the Jews, in their unbelief, with the intent of restoring their nation. As Christians we know this will be a Christian restoration.

    The prophecy of Gog and Magog some place at the end of this age, at the 2nd Coming of Christ, whereas others place the prophecy towards the end of the Millennium. Perhaps both are true? Perhaps Magog attacks Israel at the end of this age, and also towards the end of the Millennium?

    Regardless, we know that Israel will be restored as a nation at the end of this age, at the 2nd Coming of Christ, and will be restored spiritually. It will be a *Christian restoration!* The fact that most Jews today are not yet Christians does not prevent them from their destiny. They can still legitimately be referred to as "Jews." And they do constitute true "Israel." They just haven't yet achieved their Christian goal, just as many people have not yet reached their Christian goal, and many nations have not yet reached their Christian goal.

    The sober reality, however, is that many Jews will continue to miss the mark. Many Jews will *not* attain Christian salvation, nor participate in the national restoration. God will divide the sheep from the goats in Israel, just as He does in all nations.

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