
Originally Posted by
ForHisglory
Sorry, but though this is a standard position it is full of holes.
Firstly you have God making TWO NHNE's - why? What a weird thought!
Further Rev 21 states:
Rev 21:1* Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
You however have a first earth (meaning the present one), then a new one (which is therefore the second), and then ANOTHER new one, which would be the third and not following the first.
Now dealing with your points:
Are you a new creation? If so has the old you complete disappeared? Why claim something for the earth which isn't even true for yourself?
Perhaps you are basing of this verse I quoted - yet we need to ask ourselves what is it meaning, that it has passed away. Is it speaking of a physical reality or a spiritual one? Now when you say, I have spiritually changed, which is why I am new, the same is true for the old earth - the dominion of Man is replaced by the dominion of Jesus.
In Isaiah it is a new Jerusalem, for it is in a new earth, so obviously it is not the old. The fact it hasn't been prefixed with the word new isn't necessary.
In Rev when the NJ comes down, where does it come down to? It will leave heaven to a place on earth - any idea where that place will be? You see Revelation doesn't state anything contrary to Isaiah.
Did you not now that Rev 21 & 22 speaks of sinners? They are OUTSIDE Jerusalem, but they are still in existence.
Note Rev 21:12 has angels at the gate - why? The role seems to be the same as the angel at the Garden of Eden.
21:24 has nations, and kings. 25 has gates which are open - so you can come in and go out - there is a whole world beyond the NJ. 21:27 states that the impure things will not enter it, which again speaks of there being impure things.
22:2 speaks of the leaves for healing the aforementioned nations.
22:14 speaks of those who have the right to enter, and about others who are outside who do not.
Actually there is a temple in the NJ. this is one that gets a lot of people. What is the temple? It is the throne room of God. At present this is in heaven, but when Jesus descends to rule on earth, His throne room (from whence flows the river) will be in the NJ.
So a man-made temple will not exist, but the TRUE temple will. Revelation tells us about this.
There will also be the sea. This has been true from the beginning of the creation of the world. Read Genesis 1 to get this.
So again we need to ask ourselves what does sea mean in the Bible and especially in Revelation.
In Rev 20 it is the place of the dead, it is also in Rev 13 the place from which the beast comes. Neither of these seas are physical places. The sea is a symbol of a change, just like the mention of no temple, for there will be no intermediary for us with God, for we will be with Him.
I hope this clarifies for you. There are yet more arguments which show that the NHNE comes at the time of Jesus, but I'll leave you to consider these. It is one reason Amils reject Premil, because most have the NHNE coming AFTER the Millennium, yet the truth is it comes with Jesus. He sets the world free of its curse.
Bookmarks