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Thread: Revelation & history part 2

  1. #16
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    Re: Revelation & history part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    This makes good sense. And if one looks at Matt 23, Jesus was obviously describing their spiritual condition, which then could apply to anyone having some of those same traits. Such as...

    Matthew 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
    26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

    Why would this only be applicable to those scribes and Pharisees at the time? None of this can apply to anyone in our day and time? Something such as this can't apply to a Gentile as well?
    It could indeed apply to a Gentile. For a long time I thought that it especially applied to those IN the church. After all, as successors to the Jews, we have the TRUTH etc, yet do we live that way.
    It was why I could also see the Whore as being the church.
    However is that what this is on about? Will the church again degenerate - and which church?
    The Pharisees and Scribes though were not simply religious leaders but also civil leaders forming the Sanhedrin (with the Sadducees) and so I am wondering now whether this isn't speaking of the combined form, a bit like clay and iron don't mix, yet they try to...

  2. #17
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    Re: Revelation & history part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Who killed Jesus? I am pretty sure it was the Romans. Are was He not a prophet?
    I guess we all did but the Jewish leadership were responsible for it

    Matthew 27:25
    All the people answered, "His blood is on us and on our children!"

  3. #18
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    Re: Revelation & history part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Babylon is Satan's Dark Kingdom (THIS WHOLE WORLD). When Babylon falls, Satan loses his Kingdom and is locked into the bottomless pit. Babel means Confusion, Satan is the author of confusion. All the Prophets and Saints were killed on Earth by Satan's peoples, he is their father, thus they kill, steal and destroy.
    She is called the great city in the bible

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    Re: Revelation & history part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I guess we all did but the Jewish leadership were responsible for it

    Matthew 27:25
    All the people answered, "His blood is on us and on our children!"
    I have heard people say to someone in post 2000 AD...you're still living in the 70s. Why can't you get out of the 70s? Meaning the 1970s. But in your case though....you're still living in the 70s. Why can't you get out of the 70s? Meaning the 70s AD. lol.

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    Re: Revelation & history part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I have heard people say to someone in post 2000 AD...you're still living in the 70s. Why can't you get out of the 70s? Meaning the 1970s. But in your case though....you're still living in the 70s. Why can't you get out of the 70s? Meaning the 70s AD. lol.
    I was more of an 80's guy LOL

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    Re: Revelation & history part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I guess we all did but the Jewish leadership were responsible for it

    Matthew 27:25
    All the people answered, "His blood is on us and on our children!"
    They too k responsibility, but the Romans still did it.

  7. #22
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    Re: Revelation & history part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Old man View Post
    True ... Israel persecuted saints and prophets but Israel is hardly the only nation who did.

    Regardless. Is Israel responsible for "all who have been slaughtered on the earth". Not just saints and prophets ... but "all who have been slaughtered"?
    you are right on the money. No nation or city can be responsible for every martyr ever killed. The answer must lie in the spiritual source of resistance against the prophets of God. The source is idolatry and by the nature of the "her" (woman element) this should inform us that God has in mind a very big picture that incorporates all of the saints over all of time that he considers "his". This is nothing less than the Bride of Christ's evil double, her wicked sister Babylon.

    Knowing that God loves the whole world, and he describes the world as a woman..... the woman Babylon is THE WHOLE WORLD.

    The mystery woman in the wilderness is the church WITHIN that woman, the persecuted righteous saints IN THE WORLD BUT NO OF THE WORD.
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

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    Re: Revelation & history part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
    you are right on the money. No nation or city can be responsible for every martyr ever killed. The answer must lie in the spiritual source of resistance against the prophets of God. The source is idolatry and by the nature of the "her" (woman element) this should inform us that God has in mind a very big picture that incorporates all of the saints over all of time that he considers "his". This is nothing less than the Bride of Christ's evil double, her wicked sister Babylon.

    Knowing that God loves the whole world, and he describes the world as a woman..... the woman Babylon is THE WHOLE WORLD.

    The mystery woman in the wilderness is the church WITHIN that woman, the persecuted righteous saints IN THE WORLD BUT NO OF THE WORD.
    I didn’t claim the nation was responciable for all killed but the wrath would come on them as that is what Jesus said

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    Re: Revelation & history part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But only Israel persecuted and killed the prophets & the saints Rome didn't they only killed and persecuted the saints
    I suppose that's a legitimate question. I look at it from the perspective of the Apostle John, who wrote Revelation. He saw Rome murder the apostles and prophets *of the Church!* I don't think he was referring to OT saints and prophets, although I could be wrong. It is also possible that Rome murdered Jewish saints immediately before Christ came, or that Rome was part of a larger entity that encompassed pagan nations who murdered Jewish saints in the OT period.

    But there was, in fact, NT prophets--not just apostles. John undoubtedly had them in mind when he wrote Revelation!

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    Re: Revelation & history part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I suppose that's a legitimate question. I look at it from the perspective of the Apostle John, who wrote Revelation. He saw Rome murder the apostles and prophets *of the Church!* I don't think he was referring to OT saints and prophets, although I could be wrong. It is also possible that Rome murdered Jewish saints immediately before Christ came, or that Rome was part of a larger entity that encompassed pagan nations who murdered Jewish saints in the OT period.

    But there was, in fact, NT prophets--not just apostles. John undoubtedly had them in mind when he wrote Revelation!
    If you haven't seen this before check this out

    Below are a list of 10 points from the bible that tie Jerusalem and mystery Babylon together. I believe that these 10 points from the bible will tell us who mystery Babylon is.

    1) Ezekiel 16 and Revelation 18

    If you read Ezekiel 16 you will see that God says Jerusalem prostituted herself to the nations. See how it resembles Revelation 18 when God judges that great prostitute who the kings of the earth commit adultery with. There are many similarities between Ezekiel 16 and Revelation 18.

    2) The woman in the wilderness.

    In Revelation 12:6 & 12:14 the woman Israel is taken into the wilderness for protection for a set time. We then find a women in the wilderness in Revelation 17:3 sitting on a beast as John is taken into the wilderness. This woman is called the great prostitute. The name on her forehead is

    Babylon the great
    the mother of prostitutes
    and of the abominations of the earth.

    If this wasn’t the same woman in Revelation 12 what happened to the woman in Revelation 12 after the set time?

    3) The great city

    Mystery Babylon is called the great city in Revelation 17:18 and Revelation 18:21. Not a great city but the great city. A great city could be one of many cities but the great city could only be one city. Revelation 11:8 says that the great city is the city where our lord was crucified. Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem. In Revelation 18:2 mystery Babylon is called Babylon the great.

    4) 1 Peter 5:13 says she who is in Babylon greets you.

    This shows that the saints knew who Babylon was at that time. It has been said that the she in Babylon was the church in Jerusalem where it is believed that Peter lived at that time.

    5) The woman dressed in scarlet and gold.

    In Revelation 17:4 the woman is dressed in scarlet, gold and precious stones. Jeremiah 4:30 also says that Jerusalem is dressed in scarlet jewels and gold.

    6) Your lovers will despise and kill you.

    Both Jerusalem in Jeremiah 4:30-31 and mystery Babylon in Revelation 17 are killed by her lovers.

    Some people believe that Mystery Babylon will be the city that a future antichrist
    known as the beast will rule from. In Revelation 17:16-17 it says that the beast and
    the 10 horns will hate the prostitute and bring her to ruin because God had put it into
    their hearts to accomplish his purpose (Rome also destroyed Jerusalem for Gods
    purpose). Why would the beast destroy the city or empire that he rules from?


    7) The nations will mourn

    Jeremiah 4:28 says the earth will mourn at the destruction of Jerusalem. Revelation 18:9,11,15 and 19 all say that the kings, merchants and all who work on the seas will mourn at the destruction of mystery Babylon.

    8) The cup of Gods wrath

    Both Jerusalem and mystery Babylon drink the cup of Gods wrath. Isaiah 51:17 & Revelation 16:19

    9) A queen and a widow.

    In Revelation 18:7 mystery Babylon says I sit as queen I will never be a widow. n Jerusalem in Lamentations 1:1-2 is described as a queen who is now a widow. Both mystery Babylon and Jerusalem’s friends betray and destroy them.

    10) All who have been killed on the earth. This is the most important point.

    Revelation 18:20
    20 “Rejoice over her, you heavens!
    Rejoice, you people of God!
    Rejoice, apostles and prophets!
    For God has judged her
    with the judgment she imposed on you.”

    Revelation 18:24
    24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
    of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

    Revelation 18:20 says that mystery Babylon killed both the saints and the prophets. Revelation 18:24 says Babylon the great is responsible for all of the blood of the saints and prophets and all that have been killed on the earth.

    Only Israel is responsible for killing both the prophets and the saints.

    Now read what Jesus said in Matthew 23:35 as he was prophesying about the destruction of Jerusalem

    35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

    Jesus was saying that Jerusalem just like mystery Babylon is responsible for and will be judged of all the blood that has been shed on the earth. They must be one and the same. This is prophecy fulfilled.

    At the time on Matthew 23:35 the saints where not yet killed. The Jews shortly there after started their persecution of the saints.

    The Beast (who I believe was a demon in control of the empire of Rome) still rules after Babylon the great is destroyed because in Revelation 14:8 an angle says that Babylon the great has fallen and then in Revelation 14:9-10 it says that if anyone worships the beast and his image or receives his mark on their forehand or hand he to shall drink the wine of Gods fury.

    Jesus predicted that the destruction of Jerusalem would happen in his generation in Mathew chapter 24. I believe that prediction was the destruction of mystery Babylon in the year 70AD. This would put a writing date of Revelation before 70AD as it was written to the 7 churches to warn them of what must soon take place because the time is near.

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