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Thread: Revelation & history part 4

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    Revelation & history part 4

    Revelation 12:13-14
    13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

    History
    The Roman army first surrounded Jerusalem in 66AD and was held back by God's grace so some could believe in Him until the city fell in 70AD about a time times and half a time or 3 1/2 years later

    Could it just be a coincidence?


    https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...history-part-5


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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Closer to 4 years, plus where did the woman flee to? Nowhere.

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Closer to 4 years, plus where did the woman flee to? Nowhere.
    Its not a literal place just like the woman found on the scarlet beast wasn't in a literal place

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Revelation 12:13-14
    13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

    History
    The Roman army first surrounded Jerusalem in 66AD and was held back by God's grace so some could believe in Him until the city fell in 70AD about a time times and half a time or 3 1/2 years later

    Could it just be a coincidence?


    https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...history-part-5

    I don't recall there being a noteworthy repentance in Jerusalem after 66AD. THough some are always coming to faith, is that what history shows from 66 to 70 AD? Certainly there was no revival...... what does your historical evidence say? What does Josephus record?
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Its not a literal place just like the woman found on the scarlet beast wasn't in a literal place
    Wowsers, so the woman flees nowhere, even though the Bible says to the wilderness.
    Also not the same woman.

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Wowsers, so the woman flees nowhere, even though the Bible says to the wilderness.
    Also not the same woman.
    Apparently when the woman flees into the wilderness per Rev 12, this hasn't been fulfilled yet, or is presently being fulfilled. If the woman is meaning Israel, and since the time of the first century there later came along a madman such as Hitler, and what he did to the Jews at that time, it doesn't sound like they were in a safe place like Rev 12 depicts them to be once they flee into the wilderness.

    Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


    Obviously when Hitler did what he did to the Jews at the time, satan was 100% behind that. That doesn't match what verse 14 depicts though. We have at least two options. The woman already fled into the wilderness and has since come out of the wilderness in order for Hitler to have done what he did at the time. Or the woman initially flees into the wilderness sometime post the days of Hitler.

    If we assume the former, why then does Rev 12 end with the following verse?

    Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
    I don't recall there being a noteworthy repentance in Jerusalem after 66AD. THough some are always coming to faith, is that what history shows from 66 to 70 AD? Certainly there was no revival...... what does your historical evidence say? What does Josephus record?
    I wasn't saying there was a great revival but there was a time gap in there for a reason and it was a grace period for Jews to convert and some did as they remembered Jesus prediction

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Wowsers, so the woman flees nowhere, even though the Bible says to the wilderness.
    Also not the same woman.
    The bible uses locations at times for metaphors does it not?

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Apparently when the woman flees into the wilderness per Rev 12, this hasn't been fulfilled yet, or is presently being fulfilled. If the woman is meaning Israel, and since the time of the first century there later came along a madman such as Hitler, and what he did to the Jews at that time, it doesn't sound like they were in a safe place like Rev 12 depicts them to be once they flee into the wilderness.

    Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


    Obviously when Hitler did what he did to the Jews at the time, satan was 100% behind that. That doesn't match what verse 14 depicts though. We have at least two options. The woman already fled into the wilderness and has since come out of the wilderness in order for Hitler to have done what he did at the time. Or the woman initially flees into the wilderness sometime post the days of Hitler.

    If we assume the former, why then does Rev 12 end with the following verse?

    Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
    Jerusalem was protected from total destruction for a time period between 66 and 70AD

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Jerusalem was protected from total destruction for a time period between 66 and 70AD
    Wow a claim bordering on fantasy. Yes it was not TOTALLY destroyed, but that was because it was BEING destroyed by internal factions and then from external factions.
    The claim is valueless. Itis like saying I am protected from total destruction because I have lived to the age I am.
    In the same manner, only more so it was protected from total destruction from 34 AD to 66 AD.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    The bible uses locations at times for metaphors does it not?
    Any metaphor ALWAYS has a REAL meaning that the metaphor is a substitute for.
    So what REAL location did the woman flee to if not an actual wilderness?

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I wasn't saying there was a great revival but there was a time gap in there for a reason and it was a grace period for Jews to convert and some did as they remembered Jesus prediction
    I don't recall much evidence of this, nor really have I seen even a clear description of Vespasian surrounding Jerusalem up close until the final assaults in 70AD.

    Rather the record of the war shows merely that the Jews evicted the Romans from Jerusalem then ambushed them in Syria in 66AD. Later that year and into 67, Vespasian invaded Galilee, and before he could move toward Jerusalem he was diverted back to Rome to deal with civil war.

    Prior to the Roman war, the Jews had already severely persecuted and thrown out the Christians, if any Christians did remain, they would have done so in secret. When during 70AD they might have made a final attempt to flee Jerusalem, most Jews were actually going INTO Jerusalem for refuge from the Romans and for the Passover. (Hence it was over a million people trapped in the city).
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
    I don't recall much evidence of this, nor really have I seen even a clear description of Vespasian surrounding Jerusalem up close until the final assaults in 70AD.

    Rather the record of the war shows merely that the Jews evicted the Romans from Jerusalem then ambushed them in Syria in 66AD. Later that year and into 67, Vespasian invaded Galilee, and before he could move toward Jerusalem he was diverted back to Rome to deal with civil war.

    Prior to the Roman war, the Jews had already severely persecuted and thrown out the Christians, if any Christians did remain, they would have done so in secret. When during 70AD they might have made a final attempt to flee Jerusalem, most Jews were actually going INTO Jerusalem for refuge from the Romans and for the Passover. (Hence it was over a million people trapped in the city).
    Yes I have read Josephus book on the siege which was actually by Titus. The Christians actually left the city when the Romans first withdrew but would of warned people that they knew of the coming horrors that Jesus warned them about like "pray that it wouldn't of happened on the Sabbath" as the city gates would be shut so no one could get in or out of the city

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    The bible uses locations at times for metaphors does it not?
    You must be referring to Revelation 12:6...

    And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    The only metaphor in Revelation 12:6 is the word 'woman.' Everything else is literal. Wilderness is better translated 'desert.'

    That's probably the start of the great tribulation. The "thousand two hundred and threescore days" is a dead giveaway.

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah James View Post
    You must be referring to Revelation 12:6...

    And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    The only metaphor in Revelation 12:6 is the word 'woman.' Everything else is literal. Wilderness is better translated 'desert.'

    That's probably the start of the great tribulation. The "thousand two hundred and threescore days" is a dead giveaway.
    The wilderness could be symbolic for a place of protection as it was prepared for her by God

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    Re: Revelation & history part 4

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Revelation 12:13-14
    13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

    History
    The Roman army first surrounded Jerusalem in 66AD and was held back by God's grace so some could believe in Him until the city fell in 70AD about a time times and half a time or 3 1/2 years later

    Could it just be a coincidence?


    https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...history-part-5

    I think what we have is a motif, which uses the concept of 3.5 years to convey a particular time of trouble within a 7 year period. It is precisely half of a 7 year period. It is therefore a "shortened" period of time, or less than a "Week" of years.

    The idea of a shortened "Week" comes from Dan 9 and the 70 Weeks of years. The final and 70th Week is shortened to 3.5 years because Messiah is "cut off" in the "midst of the Week."

    This follows after mention of a 3.5 year period that will belong to Antichrist's rule just prior to the establishment of Christ's Kingdom. And we also have, in ch. 8 and in ch. 11, the rule of Antiochus 4, whose period of desolating Jerusalem lasts about 3.5 years.

    So the 3.5 years period is a motif. We do know that the Jewish War 66-70 AD was approx. 3.5 years. This does not, however, mean that the 3.5 year Jewish War was synonymous with the 3.5 year time that the Woman spends in the wilderness!

    My view is that the 3.5 years in Rev 12 associates with the 3.5 years of Antichrist's reign in Dan 7. In fact, I believe *all* of the 3.5 year periods in the book of Revelation associate with the 3.5 years of Antichrist's reign in Dan 7!

    The 3.5 years, the 42 months, the 1260 days all refer to the 3.5 years mentioned in Dan 7. They have nothing to do with the Jewish War in 66-70 AD, the 3.5 year period of desolation under Antiochus 4, or any other period of 3.5 years in history.

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