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Thread: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

  1. #196

    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    Dan. 11:36
    ...and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god,

    Do you see anybody in that equation, other than he, himself, and God? There is no mention of anybody else worshipping him there. Nobody.
    So, do you think that "And the king shall do according to his will" (same verse) means that some random king will sit up in his enclosed castle eating all the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and chocolate milkshakes and bon-bons his heart desires, day and night? And we all [or ANYONE] needed to know that, why?

  2. #197
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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    So, do you think that "And the king shall do according to his will" (same verse) means that some random king will sit up in his enclosed castle eating all the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and chocolate milkshakes and bon-bons his heart desires, day and night? And we all [or ANYONE] needed to know that, why?
    I'm sorry. I don't understand what you are asking. Could you be a little less dramatic with your question?
    Thanks
    The PuP

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    So, do you think that "And the king shall do according to his will" (same verse) means that some random king will sit up in his enclosed castle eating all the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and chocolate milkshakes and bon-bons his heart desires, day and night? And we all [or ANYONE] needed to know that, why?
    I'm sorry. I don't understand what you are asking. Could you be a little less dramatic with your question?
    Thanks
    The PuP

  3. #198
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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    So, do you think that "And the king shall do according to his will" (same verse) means that some random king will sit up in his enclosed castle eating all the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and chocolate milkshakes and bon-bons his heart desires, day and night? And we all [or ANYONE] needed to know that, why?
    I guess you are trying to say that he will hide himself from the world so that he won't be worshipped? I am not saying that he won't be worshipped. [That is obviously a true statement]. I am saying that he won't make the claim to be God. Look at the next verse:

    *[[Dan 11:37]] KJV* Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

    He shall not regard the God of his fathers, NOR shall he regard ANY GOD! He will be the ultimate secular humanist.

    Blessings
    The PuP

  4. #199

    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    I guess you are trying to say that he will hide himself from the world so that he won't be worshipped? I am not saying that he won't be worshipped. [That is obviously a true statement]. I am saying that he won't make the claim to be God. Look at the next verse:

    *[[Dan 11:37]] KJV* Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

    He shall not regard the God of his fathers, NOR shall he regard ANY GOD! He will be the ultimate secular humanist.

    Blessings
    The PuP
    "for he shall magnify himself above all" seems to follow how he will not have regard for ANY god [the list supplies 3] because he's claiming to be *IT* as we say it in English... He is displaying himself to be *all that* [slang for 'the one' / 'the ultimate' ].

    "for he shall NOT REGARD..."

    --"the God of his fathers"

    --"the desire of women" (which most take this to mean "the Messiah")

    --"nor any god" [any little 'g' god other ppl worship]


    Why? because "he will magnify himself above all"

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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    In the beginning was the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. Gen. 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness:
    I have an answer for every one of these. But it's beyond the scope of this discussion, and doesn't belong in ETC. If you'd like to start a discussion in "contro", I would be happy to chat with you there. For our purposes, I'm just delineating what the Jewish beliefs are, without going into "why".

    God bless
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  6. #201
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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    "for he shall magnify himself above all" seems to follow how he will not have regard for ANY god [the list supplies 3] because he's claiming to be *IT* as we say it in English... He is displaying himself to be *all that* [slang for 'the one' / 'the ultimate' ].

    "for he shall NOT REGARD..."

    --"the God of his fathers"

    --"the desire of women" (which most take this to mean "the Messiah")

    --"nor any god" [any little 'g' god other ppl worship]


    Why? because "he will magnify himself above all"
    I guess you are saying that he claims to be God. I ask, if he is #1, (even over the FP) who institutes the mark? The beast or the FP? IF he is the big dog, he can make it happen. Instead, it is the FP who institutes the mark.
    Blessings
    The PuP

  7. #202
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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    I guess you are saying that he claims to be God. I ask, if he is #1, (even over the FP) who institutes the mark? The beast or the FP? IF he is the big dog, he can make it happen. Instead, it is the FP who institutes the mark.
    Blessings
    The PuP
    The FP is the Antichrist, the leader and ruler of the ten kingdom/7 mountain empire. The number of his name adding to 666 is the name of the false prophet, the mark of the beast is issued by him because it's his mark. He is also known as the little horn in Daniel.

    Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
    Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    Here a ten horned beast arises and after it rises the little horn who takes control of this ten horned kingdom.

    Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

    The same little horn makes war with the saints and prevails!

    Who do you think the little horn is in Revelation? Same guy that arises AFTER the ten horned beast rises up.

    Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    Same beast Daniel described but with the added 7 heads.


    Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
    Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
    Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
    Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.


    And here comes the little horn just like it is in Daniel.

    Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power.
    Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power.

    Same "players" same order of appearance.

    Little horn = false prophet = antichrist.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  8. #203
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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The FP is the Antichrist, the leader and ruler of the ten kingdom/7 mountain empire. The number of his name adding to 666 is the name of the false prophet, the mark of the beast is issued by him because it's his mark. He is also known as the little horn in Daniel.

    Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
    Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    Here a ten horned beast arises and after it rises the little horn who takes control of this ten horned kingdom.

    Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

    The same little horn makes war with the saints and prevails!

    Who do you think the little horn is in Revelation? Same guy that arises AFTER the ten horned beast rises up.

    Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    Same beast Daniel described but with the added 7 heads.


    Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
    Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
    Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
    Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.


    And here comes the little horn just like it is in Daniel.

    Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power.
    Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power.

    Same "players" same order of appearance.

    Little horn = false prophet = antichrist.
    In the holy trinity it would be the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The unholy trinity would be satan, the beast with the deadly wound that was healed, and the fp. Each one of these would be mimicking someone from the holy trinity.

    I would see satan in the role of the Father. That means the roles of the Son and Holy Spirit are played by the other two.

    Let's try something here.

    Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them

    Would the Son also fit a role similar to that, or would it be the Holy Spirit that would?

    Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

    As can be seen, it is the Son and not the Holy Spirit, who makes war with someone and then overcomes them.

    Based on this alone, the holy trinity, the Father, His opposite is satan. The Son, His opposite is the first beast. The Holy Spirit, His opposite is the FP. BTW, as to prophets in general, meaning prophets of God. One can't be one apart from the Holy Spirit.

    2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
    21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

  9. #204
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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    In the holy trinity it would be the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The unholy trinity would be satan, the beast with the deadly wound that was healed, and the fp. Each one of these would be mimicking someone from the holy trinity.

    I would see satan in the role of the Father. That means the roles of the Son and Holy Spirit are played by the other two.
    I've never been a fan of that comparison. Sure, there is an evil trinity in the whole Satan and two beasts but they don't use the father/son/spirit metaphors...
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    And here comes the little horn just like it is in Daniel.

    Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power.
    Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power.

    Same "players" same order of appearance.

    Little horn = false prophet = antichrist.
    I think this really sums up the source of your view.
    However you are confused in your order.
    You see we are told in Rev 17 that we have the 7 headed beast, yet the AC is NOT one of those 7 heads. There are 10 horns, yet the AC is not one of the 10 horns.
    The entirety of the beast, including the 7 heads and the 10 horns IS the AC - or as we might say, the spirit of the AC. Yetthe Ac is an 8th, and is OF the 7, having been one of them.

    So when we read Revelation we have this:
    7 headed, 10 horned beast arise, the AC is given power by Satan, and afterwards he has the false prophet.

    the power of Satan is NOT given to the FP, but to the AC, who then has the FP direct people to worship the AC.
    So your claim, has a logic, but falls short of the actual picture.

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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I think this really sums up the source of your view.
    However you are confused in your order.
    You see we are told in Rev 17 that we have the 7 headed beast, yet the AC is NOT one of those 7 heads. There are 10 horns, yet the AC is not one of the 10 horns.
    The entirety of the beast, including the 7 heads and the 10 horns IS the AC - or as we might say, the spirit of the AC. Yetthe Ac is an 8th, and is OF the 7, having been one of them.

    So when we read Revelation we have this:
    7 headed, 10 horned beast arise, the AC is given power by Satan, and afterwards he has the false prophet.

    the power of Satan is NOT given to the FP, but to the AC, who then has the FP direct people to worship the AC.
    So your claim, has a logic, but falls short of the actual picture.
    Are you saying, Glory, that the reason Antichrist was, and *is not,* is because he was not *physically* present in the Beast, but only *spiritually* present in the Beast, until his future physical appearance? If that fits, it seems possible...

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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Are you saying, Glory, that the reason Antichrist was, and *is not,* is because he was not *physically* present in the Beast, but only *spiritually* present in the Beast, until his future physical appearance? If that fits, it seems possible...
    Basically yes, except it seems in one version of the heads he WAS physically present - which I take to mean A4E.
    The AC is like Satan a demonic being, yet he lived as a man, and we have that he will live as a man again. Now this becomes a side question as to how exactly a demonic / angelic being can be a man. Is this through impersonation, or possession or something else?
    As the spirit of AC is throughout the beast, so I don't think it is referring to possession, but rather impersonation, but may be it is something else.

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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Basically yes, except it seems in one version of the heads he WAS physically present - which I take to mean A4E.
    The AC is like Satan a demonic being, yet he lived as a man, and we have that he will live as a man again. Now this becomes a side question as to how exactly a demonic / angelic being can be a man. Is this through impersonation, or possession or something else?
    As the spirit of AC is throughout the beast, so I don't think it is referring to possession, but rather impersonation, but may be it is something else.
    I don't know, but I certainly find it interesting. I've entertained similar ideas, that Antichrist may have been physically present in either Babylon or Antiochus 4. In saying he "was" may indicate that had power over God's people, up until the time Christ defeated him. And then he "was not."

    Or perhaps Antichrist *was and is not* in the sense he existed in the previous 4 empires in the *spirit of Antichrist* and yet *is not* in the sense that he is not yet physically present.

    I've never figured any of this out to any degree of satisfaction!
    I'm still praying...

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    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I don't know, but I certainly find it interesting. I've entertained similar ideas, that Antichrist may have been physically present in either Babylon or Antiochus 4. In saying he "was" may indicate that had power over God's people, up until the time Christ defeated him. And then he "was not."

    Or perhaps Antichrist *was and is not* in the sense he existed in the previous 4 empires in the *spirit of Antichrist* and yet *is not* in the sense that he is not yet physically present.

    I've never figured any of this out to any degree of satisfaction!
    I'm still praying...

    The was is represented by the dragon in Rev 12 having ten horns and 7 heads...a previous version of the Rev 13:1 beast. I also believe Satan is the AC so the whole 7 headed beast and AC of the past (represented by the dragons having 10 horns and 7 heads) is found to rise up again in Rev 13...that all "was" it existed long ago, was not in John's time, but would rise again in the future. The 8th King (the AC) being of the 7th (the 7th is the Rev 13:1 beast kingdom) is merely Satan and his big 7 mountain multi-kingdom pattern again.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  15. #210

    Re: So who's this Anti-Christ character?

    The "anti-christ(s)" appear to refer to a false religious influence that completely altered the early Christian congregation instituted by Christ in 33 CE, at least for a significant period until the return of Christ.

    Mentioned specifically both in singular and plural entities at 1 John 2:18, 2:22, 4:3; 2 John 7

    The concept finds a parrallel in Jesus' illustration of the wheat and the weeds in Matthew 13:24-43.

    It also seems alluded to by the apostles as 'the man of lawlessness', 'false teachers' (2 Thess 2:3-5; 2 Peter 2:1) against whom the apostles presence were acting as a "restraint" (2 Thess 2:7). When the apostles died this "anti-christ" element took over the church with paid clergy, oppressive doctrines and eventually persecution of the "holy ones" throughout history by acts such as destroying the bible translations, crusades, persecuting heretics, mixing in warfare and statecraft ect. concepts that were completely in denial of their master's instructions.

    The result was that within 200 years of that scripture true christianity with it's humble, meek honest individuals (those willing to die for their faith at the roman circuses) were replaced with a counterfeit Christian state-linked domineering institution whose teachings mirror ancient Babylonian mythologies, secular philosophies and pagansim. (see "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop)

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