So who's this Anti-Christ character?

[Sonajero]

The Fourth Beast is PAST, no credible voice states it isn't/wasn't Rome. The Little Horn Arises out of the Fourth Beast. This isn't really that hard when we stop imagining things like Rome wasn't the Fourth Beast, which I see as silly. Go check any archives, all the Jews felt Rome was the Fourth Beast thus they were looking for the Little Horn at any moment circa just before 70 AD . The Jewish leaders even put forth "Messiahs" because they just knew Rome was the Fourth Beast.

The Greatest power ever in that Region was NOT A BEAST !! Come on !!

The E.U. can do whatever it wills, but there will be a 10 King Confederation that arises out of Europe who give their POWER unto the Beast. He also has to be born in Greece as per Daniel ch. 8. So he must arise out of 2 Kingdoms a once. Why do you think we are given the detailed lineage in Daniel ch. 11 ? It runs the gambit all the way to Antiochus Epiphanes, where he is the forerunner to the Anti-Christ.

Here is something everyone misses, I just saw this recently. The False Prophet also has a Forerunner/TYPE via Antiochus Epiphanes who murdered the pious High Priest Onias III and replaced him with his brother who bribed him to kill his brother and name him as the High Priest. His name was Jason he wanted to Hellenize Jerusalem/Israel thus the name which he changed from Yeshua to Jason. I find it startling that once Israel repent just before the 1260, when the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335, and start serving Jesus who will then be their High Priest, they will get a False Prophet with another name !!

As per Islam, that is the same as the RCC theory. Who do you think the 1.5 billion people who are killed will be? Christians will be Raptured. The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION, and she must needs be done away with. This Gentile Beast will destroy the Arabs and Muslims. Read Daniel 11:40-43, he Conquers all of North Africa, Lebanon and Israel. Thus he creates the same territory as the Roman Empire had. The King of the South that pushes at him will be Turkey and others, but he will quash them.

The RCC is a HEADFAKE by Satan as is the Islamic angle.

So no credible voice says it isn't Rome, and even though nearly 2000 years have passed it just has to be a current political entity?

[randyk]

Well said. I am, however, fascinated by some Christian beliefs, and one of them is this Anti-Christ person. And I do appreciate how everyone here indulges my curiosity and shares their beliefs on the matter. I'm not passing judgment and nobody is wrong, you're just sharing your understanding. Thanks all and God bless.

I appreciate your attitude. As Christians we must give the Christian pov. We cannot compromise what we believe to be true. So you'll sometimes hear a little rudeness as we try to state our beliefs, which obviously means that others are wrong, and perhaps in danger of divine judgment.

But the Antichrist comes, as I said, from Dan 7--the Little Horn. And Daniel also vividly describes Antiochus 4, side by side with this future Antichrist character. It is as if Antiochus 4 is a precursor--a foreshadowing-- of the Antichrist.

And I think that's how it will be. Christians believe an Antichrist will rise up in a great empire, frightening the whole world with this evil man's audacity to claim God-like authority. He will oppose those who worship the one true God, just as happened during the reign of Antiochus 4.

Whether or not this only involves Christians in Israel or Christians in Europe, or even Christians everywhere, is a matter for discussion. But the original idea in Daniel was focused upon the righteous in Israel.

There is a passage in the book of Revelation that seems to indicate a Woman, representing Israel, will be safeguarded to her place in the land of Israel, away and out of the Devil's reach. So it may not be Israel that is immediately threatened by the Antichrist.

Some, however, feel that Antichrist will set up shop in Israel, making his temple there. But if Israel is protected from the Antichrist, this "man of sin" may be located in the heart of Europe, perhaps Berlin or Rome? And he will then persecute Christians in Europe primarily. Obviously, the religious war that develops will end up in Israel anyway, because the Battle of Armageddon is fought at Armageddon, ie in Israel!

[DurbanDude]

You don't seem to get it brother. God gives us riddles, Jesus gave us parables and the book of Revelation. HINT: God doesn't want the world to understand the things of God per se. Likewise in Daniel 7 we see 5 Beasts even though only 4 are mentioned. Believe what YOU SEE !!

We are told of Four Beasts. We then see a Little Horn arise 2000 years later and THIS MAN is called a Beast all by himself !!

Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

SAME HERE: Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Fourth Beast suffered the Mortal Wound. Thus the Seven Headed beast CEASED being a Beast over Israel for almost 2000 years, there was no Israel, thus there could be NO BEAST. When the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem the Mortal Wound of the FIGURATIVE Beast will be healed.


I really don't take anyone that serious who says Rome was not the Fourth Beast of Daniel which would be the 6th HEAD of Rev. ch. 13 counting Egypt and Assyria. Its their opinion, but I don't take that opinion serious. They may be great on every other subject, but sometimes we go bonkers on select subjects.

This is east stuff once given the keys, if people reject the keys then that their business. But that doesn't change the facts that Rome is the Fourth Beast and the 5th Beast A MAN arises out of its old territory.

I don't always agree with you, but this makes sense. Yes Rome is the fourth beast. Rome is also the 6th head. And Rome moves to a new location effectively creating another beast.

Due to Rome actually existing at the time Rev 17 states "5 were and one IS" , it is obvious that Rome is the 6th. But Rome exists right until the end, therefore I always say Rome is the 6th, 7th , and 8th.

Rev 13 describes two beasts , not one, during the great tribulation. I see this as the two traditional capitals of Rome (Rome/Istanbul) supporting the new location of the capital city of the region (Jerusalem). Thus both beasts of Rev 13 again point to Rome.

[Revelation Man]

s

I don't always agree with you, but this makes sense. Yes Rome is the fourth beast. Rome is also the 6th head. And Rome moves to a new location effectively creating another beast.

Due to Rome actually existing at the time Rev 17 states "5 were and one IS" , it is obvious that Rome is the 6th. But Rome exists right until the end, therefore I always say Rome is the 6th, 7th , and 8th.

Rev 13 describes two beasts , not one, during the great tribulation. I see this as the two traditional capitals of Rome (Rome/Istanbul) supporting the new location of the capital city of the region (Jerusalem). Thus both beasts of Rev 13 again point to Rome.

As per the Two-Beasts of Rev. 13, God gave me something recently, I guess I better say the Holy Spirit, you would be surprised how many people/Christians say that you act like you are special "God gives you things" hey, well yes, the Holy Spirit is God. ANYWAY......ON-WARD.

One is a Government Beast like all the others (Egypt to Rome to the Anti-Christ) but all of the Beasts for the most part allowed the other nations they subdued to serve their own Gods. Daniel in Babylon served God. Cyrus allowed the Jews to go home and serve their God, Greece until Antochus Epiphanes did likewise, and Rome until well into their Kingdom did likewise, the reason they came against Christians is because Christianity preached ONE GOD and they tried to convert all human beings, whereas the Jews usually kept their Religion unto themselves, but they did fear Rome was the Fourth Beast and thus rebelled, thus the 70 AD event.

So this False Prophet is a RELIGIOUS BEAST, he is taking the place of the Harlot who will be DESTROYED. No Religion is allowed, save THE BEAST. He is given power to LORD over all peoples Religious Beliefs, hes going to DEMAND that all men worship the First Beast a MAN over the E.U., who eventually Conquers the whole world IMHO. I really don't think people have thought of him as this Religious Beast. I got the idea by looking at Jason who bribed Antiochus to kill his Pious brother Onias III the High Priest and to name him the High Priest and GET THIS he wanted to Hellenize Jerusalem/Israel, thus he changed his name from (LOL) Yeshua to Jason, and Yeshua (Jesus) is the Jews real High Priest and this FALSE PROPHET wants to do likewise, Hellenize or make the whole world Worship a MAN as God !! This is just really way cool to be given this stuff. It gave me chills.

As per the 6th, 7th and 8th Beast. I think the 7th Beast is A MAN, thus his Body is burned, the whole 7 Heads is 7 Mountains is God reducing the Kingdoms to KINGS via Kings who have FALLEN where we understand the LAST KING is a one man show as per the Kingdom, he comes to power AND falls, none of the others were like that, so IN ESSENCE, the Beast is a MAN !!

The 8th is a Demon Spirit. I think I might can explain it better by showing the difference between the Beast(s) of Rev. 12, 13 and 17.

We have three different Beasts in Rev. 12, 13 and 17, believe it or not, but the exact same powers on earth are being spoken of. In each case the designation of the one being spoken of is shown via CROWNS or lack thereof.

Rev. 12 is the Red Dragon = Satan, he has ultimate rule over all Kingdoms of the Earth just as he told Jesus in Luke ch. 4, for all this is GIVEN unto me and I do as I will with it (Kingdoms he offered Jesus to bow down and worship him). So there are no crowns on the 10 Horns but 7 CROWNS on the 7 HEADS or Earthly Beasts which are over the Mediterranean Sea Region (MSR) and thus Israel. Now Satan is also over NYC, Berlin, Moscow, London, Mexico, Cuba etc. all, but that being spoken of in Rev. ch. 12 is the Seven Beast Kingdoms over the (MSR) and thus over Israel, thus the SEVEN CROWNS designate Satan as the King/Beast power being spoken of here. And it is indeed Satan the Dragon who tried to kill Baby Jesus via King Herod, and who will chase Israel into the Wilderness via the coming Anti-Christ

Rev. 13 is the Beast that Arises out of the [Mediterranean] Sea, it has Seven Heads and 10 Horns also, this Beast is THE SEVENTH HEAD and he is known as the Little Horn that arises with the other 10 Horns. Here we see that the 10 Horns have the CROWNS on them, designating that this Beast is King over these other 10 Kings or the European Union...........Rev. 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast......

Rev. 17 is the Scarlet Colored Beast (Different color than RED believe it or not). This is Apollyon, the Beast that Ascends out of the bottomless pit in Rev. chapter 9 and kills the Two-witnesses in Rev. ch. 11. Thus the Seven Headed Beast with 10 Horns has NO CROWNS, he has Satan over him of course. So why is he a Beast? Well he was placed over the (MSR) by Satan, he is a Principality in High Places so to speak like Paul spoke of.

Rev. 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. {Hes a FALLEN ANGEL so its already a given, hes going to hell/perdition/destruction. He is OF THE SEVEN means he was placed over the Region by Satan, he is the Prince of Persia which Micheal fought.}

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit (Rev. 9), and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

What does this even mean? Well he was over the 5 Kings that fell (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece had A KING at the helm when they lost Power of course) he was over Rome until they dispersed Israel all over the world, thus they CEASED being a Beast and thus there was NO BEAST and will not be a BEAST until the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem and HEALS the Mortal Wound !!

So God locked Apollyon up in the bottomless pit when Rome ceased being a BEAST over Israel by dispersing them the world over. God saw them as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years until 1948 via the Prophecy of the Valley of Dry Bone's. God saw Israel as DEAD !! Thus Apollyon was locked into the pit and will be RELEASED at the First Woe via Rev. ch. 9.

Thus HE WAS.........IS NOT............YET IS.

[Aijalon]

This just in, the antichrist is not going to be a real dude.

So I'm really getting the picture here that all this hype about the antichrist is just not panning out. It was all hogwash, and always was. But it's more than hogwash, it's a hijacking of the Return of Christ, spun as the arrival of the antichrist.

A) he's going to say he's God (Christ is God)

B) he's going to enact some kind of one world currency with it's financial headquarters in either a rebuilt Babylon, or possibly Jerusalem (Scripture says all nations will visit, worship/pay tribute to Christ in Jerusalem)

C) he's going to be some kind of Universalist that forces everyone to believe him (Christ says everyone must believe in him)

D) he's going ally to Israel, or force Israel into a treaty then somehow "break" his treaty and attack Israel (Christ has promised destruction to Jewish Zealots on his land in the past -and- also promised to restore his everlasting covenant of peace with Israel)

E) he's going to start WW3 and send everything back into the bronze age (Scripture says God is going to make the wisdom of the wise foolish, shatter the nations like pottery, and remove all things that cause sin)

F) he's going to enforce some kind of 'world peace' (Scripture says after Christ's return that the nations will no longer study warfare)

G) he's going to build a temple in Jerusalem (Yahweh promises to sit in a literal temple in Jerusalem) and permit animal sacrifices in it (Ezekiel 40-44 depicts a rebuilt temple with animal sacrifices in the eternal kingdom)

H) he's could come from Turkey or Assyria - ISIS territory now - and form some kind of Assyrian/Kurdish superstate or Caliphate in the process forcing Israel into peace (Isaiah says that Assyria is the handiwork of God and will be an ally to Israel after the Day of the Lord. Also Isaiah and Ezekiel say that there will be a war on the mountains of Northern Israel and the region of Damascus before the Day of the Lord)

I) he will come from Jordan or Edom (Christ will enter Israel from the East after coming through Edom -Jordan- on his way into Israel, just before he destroys the nations opposed to him, on Day of the Lord and splitting the Mount of Olives East of Jerusalem)

This is an old post and I now believe that the splitting of the Mount of Olives under the last one (I) is actually related to Christ's intercessory prayer at the foot of the Mt of Olives in the Garden of Gathesemane when his heart broke in high priestly prayer, making a way of salvation in the new covenant, invoking his blood (through sweat).

[Trivalee]

Yes i could have Trivalee but with 41,000 posts under his belt I'm sure he's had time to look up the umpteen thousand threads on the subject..

Jude

True. However, since he is yet to accept Jesus Christ, surely it is incumbent on us believers to indulge him even if it amounts to repeating has been said before?

[Trivalee]

He is anti-Messiah. He does this by impersonating the Messiah which causes an Apostasy within Christianity. There's a lot of verses to show this but I wanted to give a grief explanation.

The Antichrist will not cause apostasy "within Christianity"! Those who become apostate do so by a wilful rejection of the grace of Jesus Christ. And since it is their choice to reject Christ, God helps them along with delusion that makes them even more susceptible to believe the *lies* of the AC.

[Trivalee]

Ok so a false messiah. He impersonates Jesus, something to that effect?

Not only that the AC will impersonate Jesus, he will be the greatest threat Israel has ever faced in their entire history! He will attack the Jews and Jerusalem will eventually capitulate. But the good news is that the majority of Israel (who at that time would have received Christ as their Messiah) will have 30 days to escape into the desert where they will be supernaturally protected and succoured for 3.5 years till the Glorious Return of the Messiah.

[Trivalee]

Sometimes. In this instance I'm looking for interesting ideas. Whether they are true or not will become apparent in time, I suppose.

Fenris, what is your understanding of the Two Olive Branches that Christians call the Two Witnesses that God will to Jerusalem in the end-times?

Zech 4:11 (Revelation 11:3-12) Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

[Fenris]

Fenris, what is your understanding of the Two Olive Branches that Christians call the Two Witnesses that God will to Jerusalem in the end-times?

This came up above. I'm not firmly committed, but the Jewish understanding is that since kings and priests are anointed, it means the royal line and the priesthood.

[Trivalee]

The Fourth Beast is PAST, no credible voice states it isn't/wasn't Rome. The Little Horn Arises out of the Fourth Beast. This isn't really that hard when we stop imagining things like Rome wasn't the Fourth Beast, which I see as silly. Go check any archives, all the Jews felt Rome was the Fourth Beast thus they were looking for the Little Horn at any moment circa just before 70 AD . The Jewish leaders even put forth "Messiahs" because they just knew Rome was the Fourth Beast.

The Greatest power ever in that Region was NOT A BEAST !! Come on !!

The E.U. can do whatever it wills, but there will be a 10 King Confederation that arises out of Europe who give their POWER unto the Beast. He also has to be born in Greece as per Daniel ch. 8. So he must arise out of 2 Kingdoms a once. Why do you think we are given the detailed lineage in Daniel ch. 11 ? It runs the gambit all the way to Antiochus Epiphanes, where he is the forerunner to the Anti-Christ.

Here is something everyone misses, I just saw this recently. The False Prophet also has a Forerunner/TYPE via Antiochus Epiphanes who murdered the pious High Priest Onias III and replaced him with his brother who bribed him to kill his brother and name him as the High Priest. His name was Jason he wanted to Hellenize Jerusalem/Israel thus the name which he changed from Yeshua to Jason. I find it startling that once Israel repent just before the 1260, when the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335, and start serving Jesus who will then be their High Priest, they will get a False Prophet with another name !!

As per Islam, that is the same as the RCC theory. Who do you think the 1.5 billion people who are killed will be? Christians will be Raptured. The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION, and she must needs be done away with. This Gentile Beast will destroy the Arabs and Muslims. Read Daniel 11:40-43, he Conquers all of North Africa, Lebanon and Israel. Thus he creates the same territory as the Roman Empire had. The King of the South that pushes at him will be Turkey and others, but he will quash them.

The RCC is a HEADFAKE by Satan as is the Islamic angle.

Some of your assertions are plausible while others are plainly wrong.
The EU sprang up from ancient Rome, so I believe that the Antichrist is likely to be European. Like you, I don't believe he will be an Arab.
Population (Muslims) has no bearing on what will transpire.
Whether the False Prophet will be Jewish or not, is speculative and moot.

But attributing Dan 11:40-43 to the Antichrist is woefully off track because Daniel 11 has been fulfilled! The vs 40-43 was fulfilled by Octavius Caesar after his defeat of Mark Antony/Queen Cleopatra at the battle of Actium. You might wonder what the Roman civil war had to do with Daniel's people? The answer lies in v36 "the king" without designation of either north or south. And that king is Herod the Great, who was on the throne of Israel at the coming of the Messiah.

Read it up.

[marty fox]

This came up above. I'm not firmly committed, but the Jewish understanding is that since kings and priests are anointed, it means the royal line and the priesthood.

How about symbolic for the law & the prophets that pointed to Jesus

[Trivalee]

Obviously, I don't agree with that. The Antichrist persecutes *Christians.* The only question is, would the ones being persecuted by the Little Horn be Jewish believers, or would it include Christians from all nations, including Israel? I think it is the latter.

The Antichrist will persecute ALL (Jews, both believing and non-believing, Christians, Muslims, etc.) who won't accept him as God. Remember that even though the majority of Jews and Muslims may still reject Christ, it doesn't mean they will automatically accept the Antichrist either.

Christ-rejecting Jews will not accept him as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The majority of Muslims on the other hand, may not readily accept him as their Allah, thereby invoking his wrath.

However, we do not know the full power and extent of the delusion (2 Thess 2:11) God will pour out on the unbelievers in those days. If it causes them to believe the AC, then there will only be believers (Christians) and non-believers and nothing else in between.

[Fenris]

How about symbolic for the law & the prophets that pointed to Jesus

C'mon, you know better than to ask me my opinion on that subject.

[marty fox]

C'mon, you know better than to ask me my opinion on that subject.

Just saying what I believe they are LOL