View Poll Results: Is Daniel chapter 11 past or future?

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  • Daniel 11 is a continuous prophecy of now historical past events.

    3 23.08%
  • Daniel 11 is a continuous prophecy of future events yet to come.

    1 7.69%
  • Daniel 11 is split, the 1st section pertaining to the past; the last section things to come.

    7 53.85%
  • Other interpretation. (please explain)

    2 15.38%
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Thread: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

  1. #1
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    Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Daniel 11:31 says, “Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate.

    Then in Daniel 11:36 it continues, “And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods.”

    Now, my NIV Study Bible says that everything before verse 36 is a perfect fit for the scene from Alexander the Great until the Seleucid tyrant, Antiochus Epiphenes. He sacrificed swine flesh - an abomination - in 167 BC. However, the study Bible goes on to say that from verse 36 on, it describes Antiochus no longer. It describes a future ‘Antichrist’ that hasn’t come yet.

    So, we have 3 possible interpretations here, and Ive summarised them briefly above. Please do the poll and take a moment to give your reasons why. Ive put an “other” option in case Fenris wants chime in.

    Cyber
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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    I see Daniel 11 as split; from verse 1-19 [or maybe 20] being ancient history, up to A4E and his demise. The abomination and desecration of the 2nd Temple by A4E, is described in Daniel 8:12, proved by the time gap of 2300 evenings and mornings, that equal 1150 days, the exact period between his conquest of Jerusalem and the Battle of Akrabattene in 164 BC, and the rededication of the Temple by Judas Maccabee.

    Then verses 20- 45 are future. Verse 31 is the desecration of the new Temple as prophesied by Jesus. Matthew 24:15

    Note in verses 30-32, how it is those who have the Covenant with God; the faithful Christians, the occupiers of all of the holy Land; who make a treaty with this king and then he breaks it by conquering them. Zechariah 14:1-2 and Revelation 13:7

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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz
    I see Daniel 11 as split; from verse 1-19 [or maybe 20] being ancient history, up to A4E and his demise.
    Umm, as best as I can follow the Seleucid line of kings, verse 19 refers to Antiochus 3, a predecessor of A4 Epiphanes.
    "Your name and renown
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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Daniel 11:31 says, “Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate.

    Then in Daniel 11:36 it continues, “And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods.”

    Now, my NIV Study Bible says that everything before verse 36 is a perfect fit for the scene from Alexander the Great until the Seleucid tyrant, Antiochus Epiphenes. He sacrificed swine flesh - an abomination - in 167 BC. However, the study Bible goes on to say that from verse 36 on, it describes Antiochus no longer. It describes a future ‘Antichrist’ that hasn’t come yet.

    So, we have 3 possible interpretations here, and Ive summarised them briefly above. Please do the poll and take a moment to give your reasons why. Ive put an “other” option in case Fenris wants chime in.

    Cyber
    I voted OTHER because it was pretty much ALL FUTURE or Prophetic Prophecy when it was written so it wasn't split in that essence when it was written.

    But I think you are speaking about as pertaining to the HERE & NOW.

    So Daniel 11:1-33 is about the Persian, then the Greeks all the way to Antiochus Epiphanes who is a forerunner to the Anti-Christ and I think Jason is a forerunner to the False Prophet the Hellinistic Jew that sold out his High Priest brother Onias III.

    Verses 34 & 35 is what I see as the transition period, speaking of all the Deaths and PURIFYING that goes on from AE4 until the Anti-Christ.

    Verses 36-45 is indeed the Anti-Christ, King of the North, Little Horn etc. etc.

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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I voted OTHER because it was pretty much ALL FUTURE or Prophetic Prophecy when it was written so it wasn't split in that essence when it was written.

    But I think you are speaking about as pertaining to the HERE & NOW.

    So Daniel 11:1-33 is about the Persian, then the Greeks all the way to Antiochus Epiphanes who is a forerunner to the Anti-Christ and I think Jason is a forerunner to the False Prophet the Hellinistic Jew that sold out his High Priest brother Onias III.

    Verses 34 & 35 is what I see as the transition period, speaking of all the Deaths and PURIFYING that goes on from AE4 until the Anti-Christ.

    Verses 36-45 is indeed the Anti-Christ, King of the North, Little Horn etc. etc.

    This of course is my personal opinion, and that I should have a right to my opinion whether one agrees with it or not, but it seems rather silly to me if Daniel 12:11 has no connection to that of Daniel 11:31, and that these aren't even speaking of the same events.

    Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

    Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    Assuming both verses above are indeed referring to the same events, there is a pronoun in verse 31, his, that has to belong to someone. Shouldn't be hard to determine that since it would have to belong to the last person mentioned prior to this verse. Obviously it is the one meant in verses 28-30. But those verses contain only pronouns, too. That means we have to determine who those pronouns are referring to, in order to determine who the pronoun in verse 31 is meaning.

    Daniel 11:27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.


    Obviously it's meaning one of these kings as to whom is being meant in verse 31.

    Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

    Tracing the pronouns back clearly leads to this vile person in 21, that is who is meant in verse 31. Your proposed interpretation is impossible and makes no sense if the vile person in verse 21 is the one meant in verse 31, which then means this vile person is also the king meant in verse 36, one of these same two kings of verse 27. Daniel 12:11 proves Daniel 11:31 has nothing to do with the era of time you are applying it to.

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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Per the poll I wanted to choose this option....Daniel 11 is split, the 1st section pertaining to the past; the last section things to come....but this option isn't defining where the split is, thus not defining what is meant by the first section and what is meant by the last section. Where one person might see the last section initially beginning, another person might not. So I chose other then.

  7. #7

    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Tho there may be a prophetic foreshadowing of events thru much of the chapter, I see the end times essentially beginning in verse 7. The king of the South will be a descendent of (a branch of her) a noted queen of the South and a king of the north. Since it references her progeny(branch) my guess would be Cleopatra, queen of Egypt, thru her child Ceasarian.

    *[[Dan 11:7]] KJV* But out of a branch of her roots shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail:

    I see the vile king of the north, gaining accession to the throne of the king of the South by flattery.

    *[[Dan 11:21]] KJV* And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

    The reference to "in his estate" is referring to the successor to the king of the south (the initial one in verse 7), who is a raised of taxes, who continues only for "within a few days". This "raiser of taxes", rules during the "glory of the kingdom",

    *[[Dan 11:20]] KJV* Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

    The glory of the kingdom, IMHO, refers to kingdom of Israel, during which the completed temple shall be standing. When it says that he is destroyed not by anger or battle, this is when he loses the kingdom via the flattery of this vile king of the north.

    Blessings
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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Daniel 11:31 says, “Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate.

    Then in Daniel 11:36 it continues, “And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods.”

    Now, my NIV Study Bible says that everything before verse 36 is a perfect fit for the scene from Alexander the Great until the Seleucid tyrant, Antiochus Epiphenes. He sacrificed swine flesh - an abomination - in 167 BC. However, the study Bible goes on to say that from verse 36 on, it describes Antiochus no longer. It describes a future ‘Antichrist’ that hasn’t come yet.

    So, we have 3 possible interpretations here, and Ive summarised them briefly above. Please do the poll and take a moment to give your reasons why. Ive put an “other” option in case Fenris wants chime in.

    Cyber
    How can the split be at verse 36? How can there be this mysterious king that appears out of nowhere, in which the text prior to verse 36 knows nothing about?

    Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.


    I would think, if most people were like me, they would be asking themselves...what king? Obviously it has to be meaning a king the text has already mentioned prior to this verse.

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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    Tho there may be a prophetic foreshadowing of events thru much of the chapter, I see the end times essentially beginning in verse 7. The king of the South will be a descendent of (a branch of her) a noted queen of the South and a king of the north. Since it references her progeny(branch) my guess would be Cleopatra, queen of Egypt, thru her child Ceasarian.

    *[[Dan 11:7]] KJV* But out of a branch of her roots shall one stand up in his estate, which shall come with an army, and shall enter into the fortress of the king of the north, and shall deal against them, and shall prevail:

    I see the vile king of the north, gaining accession to the throne of the king of the South by flattery.

    *[[Dan 11:21]] KJV* And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

    The reference to "in his estate" is referring to the successor to the king of the south (the initial one in verse 7), who is a raised of taxes, who continues only for "within a few days". This "raiser of taxes", rules during the "glory of the kingdom",

    *[[Dan 11:20]] KJV* Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

    The glory of the kingdom, IMHO, refers to kingdom of Israel, during which the completed temple shall be standing. When it says that he is destroyed not by anger or battle, this is when he loses the kingdom via the flattery of this vile king of the north.

    Blessings
    The PuP

    You know what, I have thought along those same lines as well. Maybe you are right, I don't know. But I don't discount that as a possibility altogether.

    Daniel 11:6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

    In this verse it calls it in the end of years. That eerily sounds like last days lingo to me. Of course though, most will disagree that it does.

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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    This of course is my personal opinion, and that I should have a right to my opinion whether one agrees with it or not, but it seems rather silly to me if Daniel 12:11 has no connection to that of Daniel 11:31, and that these aren't even speaking of the same events.

    Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

    Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    Assuming both verses above are indeed referring to the same events, there is a pronoun in verse 31, his, that has to belong to someone. Shouldn't be hard to determine that since it would have to belong to the last person mentioned prior to this verse. Obviously it is the one meant in verses 28-30. But those verses contain only pronouns, too. That means we have to determine who those pronouns are referring to, in order to determine who the pronoun in verse 31 is meaning.

    Daniel 11:27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.


    Obviously it's meaning one of these kings as to whom is being meant in verse 31.

    Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

    Tracing the pronouns back clearly leads to this vile person in 21, that is who is meant in verse 31. Your proposed interpretation is impossible and makes no sense if the vile person in verse 21 is the one meant in verse 31, which then means this vile person is also the king meant in verse 36, one of these same two kings of verse 27. Daniel 12:11 proves Daniel 11:31 has nothing to do with the era of time you are applying it to.
    Your whole "PRONOUN" theory via the English doesn't even register with me to start with. You try and study the English to the nth degree but the bible was written in Hebrew. You have to study the original root words in which the Hebrew had no vowels. Not that that even matters, I am just pointing out that anyone trying to get to technical about the ENGLISH is missing the mark to start with.

    As per 12:11 it is not about Antiochus Epophanes and verse 11:31. Its about the Anti-Christ, AE4 is just a forerunner with a like mind. The 2300 days IN HEBREW means 1150 days, not 2300 days, any Jew can tell you that. Its 2300 Evenings and Mornings.

    Daniel 11:36-45 is the Anti-Christ.

    Antiochus was killed right after verse 31 happened.

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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Your whole "PRONOUN" theory via the English doesn't even register with me to start with. You try and study the English to the nth degree but the bible was written in Hebrew. You have to study the original root words in which the Hebrew had no vowels. Not that that even matters, I am used pointing out that anyone trying to get to technical about the ENGLISH is missing the mark to start with.

    As per 12:11 it is not about Antiochus Epophanes and verse 11:31. Its about the Anti-Christ, AE4 is just a forerunner with a like mind. The 2300 days IN HEBREW means 1150 days, not 2300 days, and Jew can tell you that. Its 2300 Evenings and Mornings.

    Daniel 11:36-45 is the Anti-Christ.

    Antiochus was killed right after verse 31 happened.
    Prove your point then if pronouns don't matter.

    Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


    Here's a passage. Illustrate how the 'he' in verse 27 doesn't matter, and that it doesn't mean the last person mentioned, in this case, the prince that shall come.

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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Prove your point then if pronouns don't matter.

    Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


    Here's a passage. Illustrate how the 'he' in verse 27 doesn't matter, and that it doesn't mean the last person mentioned, in this case, the prince that shall come.
    To start with allow me to show you the Masoretic text and the Hebrew it was translated from to show my point sister. I will go over verses 26-27 later.

    9:26 And after 310 threescore 8346 and two 8147 weeks 7620 shall Mäšîåç מָשִׁיחַ 4899 be cut off, 3772 z8735 but not x369 for himself: and the people 5971 of the prince 5057 that shall come 935 z8802 shall destroy 7843 z8686 the city 5892 and the sanctuary; 6944 and the end 7093 thereof [shall be] with a flood, 7858 and unto x5704 the end 7093 of the war 4421 desolations 8074 z8802 are determined. 2782 z8737

    9:26 w' (THE) achárëy (HIND) ha (THE) SHävuiym (SEVENED) shiSHiym (SIXTY) û (AND) sh'nayim (TWO) yiKärët (CUT) mäshiyªch (MESSIAH/ANOINTED) w'(BUT) ëyn(NOT) lô (TOWARDS/SELF/Prefix) w(AND) 'hä(THE) iyr(CITY/PEOPLE) w(AND) 'ha(THE) Qodesh(SANCTUARY) yash'chiyt(DECAY/DESTROYED) am(TRIBE/TROOPS) nägiyd(MILITARY/COMMANDER) ha(THAT) Bä(COMES) w'(AND) qiTZô(EXTREMITY/END) va(THEREFORE/BY) SHe†ef(FLOOD/DELUGE)) w'(AND) ad(UNTO) qëtz(EXTRMITY/END) mil'chämäh(WARS) nechéretzet(POINTS TOWARDS) shomëmôt(STUN/DEVASTATE or DESOLATION'S)

    So from this here....The hind the sevened sixty and two cut Messiah but not towards self and the city/people and the sanctuary decay tribe/troops commander that comes and end therefor/by deluge/flood and unto end wars point towards desolation's/STUNS...........WE GET THIS VERSE BELOW !!

    Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


    My point sister is you are putting a lot of stock in these PRONOUNS when many of these things were added in many instances by the English Translators.

    Now I will show how verses 9:25-27 show Two Different time-frames. For starters there were no verses or chapters. I will place the passages as they should be.

    Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:



    (AND) and the people(Romans) of the prince(Anti-Christ/Commander) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;(70 A.D.) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Army), and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he (Prince to come) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (He will demand they STOP worshiping Jesus in the Temple), and for the overspreading of abominations (he places an IDOL in the Temple) he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Reading the Holman Bible might help some people get it, I don't know.

    Daniel 9:25 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah*the Prince* will be seven weeks and 62 weeks. It will be rebuilt with a plaza and a moat, but in difficult times. 26*After those 62 weeks* the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing.


    The people of the coming prince will destroy the city*and the sanctuary. The*end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be*war; desolations are decreed. 27*He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing*of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”

    This is VERY CLEAR...We have the City/Sanctuary rebuilt in 49 years (7 x 7) the Messiah DIES/CUT OFF after a 434 year period (7 x 62) AND THEN....The last Seven Years will be about a Peace Agreement of Seven Years AFTER THE CHURCH AGE, and the Military Commander that is to come at the END OF THE AGE, will come from the same PEOPLE (Romans/Europeans) that will Destroy the City/Sanctuary in 70 AD. (1 X 7 ends the Age).

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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Umm, as best as I can follow the Seleucid line of kings, verse 19 refers to Antiochus 3, a predecessor of A4 Epiphanes.
    Maybe, but there is no doubt that the switch to future events occurs at verse 20. Verse 24.....he will succeed where his ancestors failed.

    As for getting into pedantic semantics and language interpretations, these are the domain if the so called 'wise'. The ones that Jesus said will never be able to understand the truth of prophecy. Matthew 11:25, and 1 Corinthians 3:18-20

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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    To start with allow me to show you the Masoretic text and the Hebrew it was translated from to show my point sister. I will go over verses 26-27 later.

    9:26 And after 310 threescore 8346 and two 8147 weeks 7620 shall Mäšîåç מָשִׁיחַ 4899 be cut off, 3772 z8735 but not x369 for himself: and the people 5971 of the prince 5057 that shall come 935 z8802 shall destroy 7843 z8686 the city 5892 and the sanctuary; 6944 and the end 7093 thereof [shall be] with a flood, 7858 and unto x5704 the end 7093 of the war 4421 desolations 8074 z8802 are determined. 2782 z8737

    9:26 w' (THE) achárëy (HIND) ha (THE) SHävuiym (SEVENED) shiSHiym (SIXTY) û (AND) sh'nayim (TWO) yiKärët (CUT) mäshiyªch (MESSIAH/ANOINTED) w'(BUT) ëyn(NOT) lô (TOWARDS/SELF/Prefix) w(AND) 'hä(THE) iyr(CITY/PEOPLE) w(AND) 'ha(THE) Qodesh(SANCTUARY) yash'chiyt(DECAY/DESTROYED) am(TRIBE/TROOPS) nägiyd(MILITARY/COMMANDER) ha(THAT) Bä(COMES) w'(AND) qiTZô(EXTREMITY/END) va(THEREFORE/BY) SHe†ef(FLOOD/DELUGE)) w'(AND) ad(UNTO) qëtz(EXTRMITY/END) mil'chämäh(WARS) nechéretzet(POINTS TOWARDS) shomëmôt(STUN/DEVASTATE or DESOLATION'S)

    So from this here....The hind the sevened sixty and two cut Messiah but not towards self and the city/people and the sanctuary decay tribe/troops commander that comes and end therefor/by deluge/flood and unto end wars point towards desolation's/STUNS...........WE GET THIS VERSE BELOW !!

    Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


    My point sister is you are putting a lot of stock in these PRONOUNS when many of these things were added in many instances by the English Translators.

    Now I will show how verses 9:25-27 show Two Different time-frames. For starters there were no verses or chapters. I will place the passages as they should be.

    Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:



    (AND) and the people(Romans) of the prince(Anti-Christ/Commander) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;(70 A.D.) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Army), and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he (Prince to come) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (He will demand they STOP worshiping Jesus in the Temple), and for the overspreading of abominations (he places an IDOL in the Temple) he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Reading the Holman Bible might help some people get it, I don't know.

    Daniel 9:25 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah*the Prince* will be seven weeks and 62 weeks. It will be rebuilt with a plaza and a moat, but in difficult times. 26*After those 62 weeks* the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing.


    The people of the coming prince will destroy the city*and the sanctuary. The*end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be*war; desolations are decreed. 27*He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing*of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”

    This is VERY CLEAR...We have the City/Sanctuary rebuilt in 49 years (7 x 7) the Messiah DIES/CUT OFF after a 434 year period (7 x 62) AND THEN....The last Seven Years will be about a Peace Agreement of Seven Years AFTER THE CHURCH AGE, and the Military Commander that is to come at the END OF THE AGE, will come from the same PEOPLE (Romans/Europeans) that will Destroy the City/Sanctuary in 70 AD. (1 X 7 ends the Age).
    And so what if the translators added the pronouns? They obviously had good reason to, therefore used good common sense by doing so, in order to make sense of the texts involved, and in order that it is clear whom is being referred to everytime. Those pronouns matter then, regardless whether they were added by the translators or not. There has to be a logical flow to the texts involved.

    Take verse 24 for instance.


    Daniel 11:24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.


    With or without the pronouns, somebody shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province. Somebody shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers. etc. What then is so wrong by wanting to know whom is meant here? How can one make logical sense of the texts involved if it's not a good idea to try and determine whom is being meant in the texts involved?


    BTW, it's not sister in my case. No big deal though. You obviously didn't know...an honest mistake then.

  15. #15
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    Re: Daniel 11 Past, Future, or Split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man
    So Daniel 11:1-33 is about the Persian, then the Greeks all the way to Antiochus Epiphanes who is a forerunner to the Anti-Christ and I think Jason is a forerunner to the False Prophet the Hellinistic Jew that sold out his High Priest brother Onias III.
    That makes sense to me too. So I voted "Daniel 11 is split, the 1st section pertaining to the past; the last section things to come." Yes, I agree with you that the Antichrist is in mind after verse 36.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man
    Verses 34 & 35 is what I see as the transition period, speaking of all the Deaths and PURIFYING that goes on from AE4 until the Anti-Christ.
    Not sure what you mean here RevMan. AE4 to the final Anti-Christ is a looooong transition time.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
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