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Thread: Why God Allows Adversity

  1. #16
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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    The question is: with your interpretation, doesn't these sound contradictory?

    First, by your interpretation, God does not tempt(test) anyone. Then God tested Abraham.
    Does that synch?
    No it is only in the way you seem to understand my words. God does test people, but not tempt anybody.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Yes Paul said that, but he didn't say 'never lay hands on any man'. The scriptural instruction is clear. It says, "Lay hands suddenly on no man" as many has twisted it to be.

    But my question is, why are we always expectant of the negative?
    The last time I checked the scripture, it says, to the pure all things are pure. And of course, that is also true for the impure, the word of God says "to the impure, all things are impure".
    I like your question: "why are we always expectant of the negative?". If you haven't noticed, we live in a wicked world controlled by Satan. Of course, Paul didn't say, not to pray for others; it all comes down to discernment. Is the person laying hands on another in right standing with God?

    My position is that a false minister's prayer for another will not add any value to that person.

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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I like your question: "why are we always expectant of the negative?". If you haven't noticed, we live in a wicked world controlled by Satan. Of course, Paul didn't say, not to pray for others; it all comes down to discernment. Is the person laying hands on another in right standing with God?

    My position is that a false minister's prayer for another will not add any value to that person.
    Also, many examples of "laying on of hands" is about the "imparting" of something and this is why Paul warns about receiving from the laying on of hands.

    I lay hands on all the time but some I don't know, such as when I am visiting another church, I ask if I may layon of hands and when they say no, and some do say no... I hold my hand up in praise and pray over them.
    Slug1--out

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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    The Greek says God does not tempt anybody, the Hebrew that God tested Abraham.

    Aristarkos
    Very good point. To further strengthen your point, Joseph tested Judah in the same way.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Yes Paul said that, but he didn't say 'never lay hands on any man'. The scriptural instruction is clear. It says, "Lay hands suddenly on no man" as many has twisted it to be.

    But my question is, why are we always expectant of the negative?
    The last time I checked the scripture, it says, to the pure all things are pure. And of course, that is also true for the impure, the word of God says "to the impure, all things are impure".
    It's called discernment. I don't want someone who worships a god they've constructed in their own mind to lay hands on me.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  6. #21
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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    I basically agree with the description of why God allows diversity. I would only add to it one thing. God allows the righteous to experience in this contaminated world things that were brought about by human sin generally, and not by the sin of the one who is suffering. For example, we may get the flu, not because we committed a sin, but rather, because we live in a world in which sinful people sin, and spread their contagion.

    It is very much like Christ himself, who came into this world sinless, and yet suffered abuse at the hands of sinful man. Nothing Jesus did brought about his suffering--he had nothing to feel guilt for. But he willingly entered into our contaminated environment, knowing he would suffer the consequences.

    When you pray for someone, I don't believe you should pray by any formula. When Jesus prayed, he brought 100% healing because it was his time, and it was Israel's time, to see the Messiah at work. He knew who to pray for, and he did not pray for all in Israel.

    Jesus prayed by discernment, and not by any formula. He did *only* what he saw the Father doing. Today, the Faith Movement encourages us to pray by formula, guaranteeing 100% success, even without results. I've seen it a thousand times. My own ministers in church "claim" they are healed, and yet regularly go to the doctor for treatments. These are now very serious maladies. I suppose they will only say it is their time. This does not deal with the deception behind Faith Doctrine.

    There is indeed a time to lay hands on the sick. We shouldn't be embarrassed if we don't always know how to pray, or do not get the results we pray for. People know when we are asking God on their behalf, and they know it is God alone who can heal. We should pray upon request, or simply to show compassion. And we should expect God will hear, and show us, over time, what He is doing. But we should indeed expect a supernatural result.

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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    1. You are Able to Handle it: God allows adversities to come to believers, because he knows they already have the ability to handle the situation. And thereby, growing in that ability by exercise, through adversities, to the glory, praise and honor of his holy name—1 Corinthians 10:13; 1 Peter 1:6-7.
    2. Development of Patience: The bible tells us that we should count it all joy when we fall into various trials; knowing this, that the trying of our faith works patience (James 1:2-3). Hence, development of patience in us is a reason God could allow adversity in our lives sometimes.
    3. Disciplinary Motive: Another reason a Christian could experience adversity, may be for the purpose of divine discipline. God can allow a believer to experience adversity, in order to curtail or cut off a vice from him. This vice could be pride, impatience, materialism, e.t.c. This was the case of the Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians12:7. God had to give him a thorn in the flesh so he won’t be exalted above measure.
    4. Chastening Motive: God can also use adverse situations, such as sickness , financial or material loss and yes, even death to chasten believers for profane or rebellious attitudes. The scriptural instance of this is what happened to the people who profaned the communion in 1Corinthians 11:29-32. And Jesus’ proposed Judgement on the prophetess in Revelation 2:20-23. But if we can always judge ourselves, God would not have to judge or chasten us.
    5. Proving Motive: Scripturally, it is clear that God uses adversity to prove the dedication and love of his children from time to time. Someone has said; “God offends the mind to reveal the heart”. And that is scripturally true. A perfect example of this is the case of Job. God used great adversity to prove Job’s fear, love and dedication to him (read the entire book of Job).


    So God allows adversities in the lives of believers for the reasons above.
    I happen to agree with much of this list. And even though it almost exclusively cites NT texts, I think there are analogues in the OT as well. I consider 1,2, and 5 to be essentially the same reason: God only sends us challenges that we are capable of overcoming. But He doesn't do so for His own knowledge. God already knows what we're capable of. But He gives us these challenges so that we learn what we're capable of. In Hebrew, the word for "test" is the same as the word for "banner". Because tests are a visible manifestation of what we are capable of doing.

    I also see 3 and 4 as being essentially the same. God does send us adversity to send us back on the correct path. In 2 Samuel 14, God says of David's progeny "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men." If this could happen to the Jewish kings, how much more so for the common people.

    The challenge, of course, is not knowing what God's motives could be, but knowing what they are in a given instance. And even if we say that we don't understand or don't deserve what is happening, part of having faith is accepting what God metes out to us. And that I think is the primary message in the book of Job.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I happen to agree with much of this list. And even though it almost exclusively cites NT texts, I think there are analogues in the OT as well. I consider 1,2, and 5 to be essentially the same reason: God only sends us challenges that we are capable of overcoming. But He doesn't do so for His own knowledge. God already knows what we're capable of. But He gives us these challenges so that we learn what we're capable of. In Hebrew, the word for "test" is the same as the word for "banner". Because tests are a visible manifestation of what we are capable of doing.

    I also see 3 and 4 as being essentially the same. God does send us adversity to send us back on the correct path. In 2 Samuel 14, God says of David's progeny "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men." If this could happen to the Jewish kings, how much more so for the common people.

    The challenge, of course, is not knowing what God's motives could be, but knowing what they are in a given instance. And even if we say that we don't understand or don't deserve what is happening, part of having faith is accepting what God metes out to us. And that I think is the primary message in the book of Job.
    Well put. What he said...

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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Also, many examples of "laying on of hands" is about the "imparting" of something and this is why Paul warns about receiving from the laying on of hands.

    I lay hands on all the time but some I don't know, such as when I am visiting another church, I ask if I may layon of hands and when they say no, and some do say no... I hold my hand up in praise and pray over them.
    I do not believe anything occurs (such as imparting of something physical or spiritual) through peoples physical hands.
    Imparting communicates. So in that vein I would agree. Faith is enough to receive the Holy Spirit or to heal, even if as people we are physical, believe that physical touch will heal us, the healing (through prayer) is always from faith.

    The Holy Spirit Heals miraculously, physical people and/or scientific understanding heal through Him and knowledge imparted TO those people to deal with physical issues. Humans in the physical are physically/mentally fallible. That is why they need insurance.

    There is and has been a physical show--- (from the O.T. the laying on of hands symbolizing sin imparting to the sacrifice, but sin did not come from those peoples hands onto the sacrifice, the act is SYMBOLIC and through the faith of the Priest by obedience to God)

    Because we are physical beings, a public commendation of laying on of hands to an official office, (taking responsibility for that choice) or understanding that one is praying specifically for healing as in anointing. The oil is physical, the hands are physical the prayer is spiritual, the healing is spiritual.
    You stated it yourself: If someone says no, you hold your hand up in praise and pray over them and still believe in healing, I hope.

    IMO-Paul does not warn about laying of hands other than being responsible for the choice of individual for office to serve others, which is the context of that scripture.
    Peace to you!

    It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

    1 Corinthians 1:30


  10. #25

    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    A good Christian brother once sent me a quote from Augustine that I've held onto in meditation for a time now... It says, "God deemed it better to bring good from evil, rather than to suffer evil to not exist..."

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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Falconcheff View Post
    A good Christian brother once sent me a quote from Augustine that I've held onto in meditation for a time now... It says, "God deemed it better to bring good from evil, rather than to suffer evil to not exist..."
    Our reconciliation to Him is a much better story than He made us fallible, so it is His fault in some way. He gives us purpose and life through Himself. We CAN be what He created us to be, in miraculous complexity (and I think us humans like complexity as He made us in His image)
    Peace to you!

    It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

    1 Corinthians 1:30


  12. #27

    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Everything point posted above, has the corresponding scriptures appended to them. So basically I believe you need to put your pet doctrines aside and meditate on the scriptures before coming up with your rebuttals.

    To start with I want to know your opinion concerning what God did to Abraham when he asked him to sacrifice Isaac. The scripture categorically states that "God tempted Abraham".

    After answering that, I will explain to you what James meant by God not tempting anyone with evil.
    A person is tempted with an evil work or thing in order for him/her to fall and be cursed. Adam and Eve were tempted with with a fruit from the tree of good and evil that they ate and were cursed. Satan tempted them.

    A person is tested with a godly work or thing in order for him/her to go through or obtain and be blessed. Abraham was tested with a commandment he had to obey. He obeyed and was blessed. God tested Abraham.

    I hope you can see why God does not tempt, but does test. He does test with works of obedience unto righteousness and/or with works of holiness unto sanctification so that the tested person might be rewarded with a blessing.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    A person is tempted with an evil work or thing in order for him/her to fall and be cursed. Adam and Eve were tempted with with a fruit from the tree of good and evil that they ate and were cursed. Satan tempted them.

    A person is tested with a godly work or thing in order for him/her to go through or obtain and be blessed. Abraham was tested with a commandment he had to obey. He obeyed and was blessed. God tested Abraham.

    I hope you can see why God does not tempt, but does test. He does test with works of obedience unto righteousness and/or with works of holiness unto sanctification so that the tested person might be rewarded with a blessing.
    I wanted to know you and Aristarkos' definition of the term 'tempt'. As in, I want a definition in plain English. English synonyms will be preferable
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    No it is only in the way you seem to understand my words. God does test people, but not tempt anybody.

    Aristarkos
    True. God doesn't tempt anyone James 1:13).

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    Re: Why God Allows Adversity

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Why God Allow Adversities

    Scripturally, these are the possible reasons why God can allow adversities to come to a believer:

    1. You are Able to Handle it: God allows adversities to come to believers, because he knows they already have the ability to handle the situation. And thereby, growing in that ability by exercise, through adversities, to the glory, praise and honor of his holy name—1 Corinthians 10:13; 1 Peter 1:6-7.
    2. Development of Patience: The bible tells us that we should count it all joy when we fall into various trials; knowing this, that the trying of our faith works patience (James 1:2-3). Hence, development of patience in us is a reason God could allow adversity in our lives sometimes.
    3. Disciplinary Motive: Another reason a Christian could experience adversity, may be for the purpose of divine discipline. God can allow a believer to experience adversity, in order to curtail or cut off a vice from him. This vice could be pride, impatience, materialism, e.t.c. This was the case of the Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians12:7. God had to give him a thorn in the flesh so he won’t be exalted above measure.
    4. Chastening Motive: God can also use adverse situations, such as sickness , financial or material loss and yes, even death to chasten believers for profane or rebellious attitudes. The scriptural instance of this is what happened to the people who profaned the communion in 1Corinthians 11:29-32. And Jesus’ proposed Judgement on the prophetess in Revelation 2:20-23. But if we can always judge ourselves, God would not have to judge or chasten us.
    5. Proving Motive: Scripturally, it is clear that God uses adversity to prove the dedication and love of his children from time to time. Someone has said; “God offends the mind to reveal the heart”. And that is scripturally true. A perfect example of this is the case of Job. God used great adversity to prove Job’s fear, love and dedication to him (read the entire book of Job).


    So God allows adversities in the lives of believers for the reasons above. And if you find yourself in any adversity, don’t be offended in God. Instead, first attack the situation by faith and prayers. But after so much prayers and exercise of faith, and the situation persists, don’t assume anything. The challenge may be for any of the above listed reasons. But Like the Apostle Paul, go to God in prayers to discern the reason for the challenge.

    And as you find out the reason, you can then deal with the situation accordingly with scriptural wisdom.
    Isn't it worthy of note that allowing adversity to befall a believer e.g. Job is not the same as God himself instigating the adversity? Otherwise, James 1:13 will be a lie, wouldn't it?

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