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Thread: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

  1. #1
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    Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    I pulled this sentence from a member in another thread to start this so not to derail the thread. Here’s the quote....

    Contrary to modern Christian doctrine which requires ceremonies and oaths, marriage in the Bible is when a man copulates with a free woman and lives with her after that.

    Ok. Biblical or not? Go!



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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    I pulled this sentence from a member in another thread to start this so not to derail the thread. Here’s the quote....

    Contrary to modern Christian doctrine which requires ceremonies and oaths, marriage in the Bible is when a man copulates with a free woman and lives with her after that.

    Ok. Biblical or not? Go!


    You mean, unlike ancient ceremonies and oaths?

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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    I pulled this sentence from a member in another thread to start this so not to derail the thread. Here’s the quote....

    Contrary to modern Christian doctrine which requires ceremonies and oaths, marriage in the Bible is when a man copulates with a free woman and lives with her after that.

    Ok. Biblical or not? Go!


    I'm not quite sure that it fully constitutes Biblical marriage.... BUT.... I'm also not convinced that to be Biblically married that a state-sponsored license/ceremony has to take place either.

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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    I pulled this sentence from a member in another thread to start this so not to derail the thread. Here’s the quote....

    Contrary to modern Christian doctrine which requires ceremonies and oaths, marriage in the Bible is when a man copulates with a free woman and lives with her after that.

    Ok. Biblical or not? Go!


    Yes. Although that is the very unrefined way to do it.

    In traditional Jewish law, there are three ways to get married.

    1)By document (called the "Ketubah", which also stipulates alimony)
    2)By gift (traditionally a ring)
    3)By physical consummation of the relationship.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Yes. Although that is the very unrefined way to do it.

    In traditional Jewish law, there are three ways to get married.

    1)By document (called the "Ketubah", which also stipulates alimony)
    2)By gift (traditionally a ring)
    3)By physical consummation of the relationship.
    The Gospels say that Jesus celebrated such a wedding and also enhanced it by turning water to wine. I would say then, according to my faith, God sanctions this type of wedding.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    The oath seems to be the most important factor. It can't simply be sex/living together, otherwise this law wouldn't make sense:

    If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins. (Ex. 22:16)

    IMO marriage is an oath taken by both parties, and nothing more. So then it would fall under the laws about vows in general, which would line up with what we read above. I think everything else about "marriages" are just different ways of representing the intangible agreement. But they don't create the covenant themselves. You don't need a "modern Christian ceremony" either, but I imagine humans started making a big deal about it because there's not a bigger oath you can take on earth. And, it's supposed to be a merry time, so why not have the cake before you eat it?
    여러분은 주님 안에서 항상 기뻐하십시오. 내가 다시 말합니다. 기뻐하십시오.
    모든 사람을 너그럽게 대하십시오. 주님께서 오실 날이 가까웠습니다. Philippians 4


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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    The oath seems to be the most important factor. It can't simply be sex/living together, otherwise this law wouldn't make sense:

    If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins. (Ex. 22:16)
    The act of sex for the sake of consummating a marriage makes the couple married. Again, this is the crudest manner for doing so, although it does the job.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    The act of sex for the sake of consummating a marriage makes the couple married. Again, this is the crudest manner for doing so, although it does the job.
    To confirm it I can see this. But I think the OP was implying you can do all the things relating to consummation without the oath and still be married. I view the physical aspects as like a signature and the oath as the contract. So if you sign your name on a blank paper then it's up to the other party to write the terms above it or just throw the page away. But a signature by itself means nothing.
    여러분은 주님 안에서 항상 기뻐하십시오. 내가 다시 말합니다. 기뻐하십시오.
    모든 사람을 너그럽게 대하십시오. 주님께서 오실 날이 가까웠습니다. Philippians 4


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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    To confirm it I can see this. But I think the OP was implying you can do all the things relating to consummation without the oath and still be married.
    Hmm I think we need clarification as to the intent of the original poster then....
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Hmm I think we need clarification as to the intent of the original poster then....
    That was me. Without going into a long speech let us reverse the argument. Who married Adam and Eve and Isaac and Rebekah? What oath did they take? Which government outside of God's recognized their union? Are there any scriptures to dictate ceremonies and oaths? The Christian is forbidden oaths (Matt.5:34-36). The wedding our Lord Jesus sanctioned was not a marriage. It was marriage FEAST - a legitimate celebration of the union. I propose the following and nothing more.
    • Genesis 2:24: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."
    • Matthew 19:5: "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"

    The proof of marriage can be found in Deuteronomy Chapter 22.

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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    That was me. Without going into a long speech let us reverse the argument. Who married Adam and Eve and Isaac and Rebekah? What oath did they take? Which government outside of God's recognized their union? Are there any scriptures to dictate ceremonies and oaths? The Christian is forbidden oaths (Matt.5:34-36). The wedding our Lord Jesus sanctioned was not a marriage. It was marriage FEAST - a legitimate celebration of the union. I propose the following and nothing more.
    • Genesis 2:24: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."
    • Matthew 19:5: "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"
    You notice it doesn't say, 'cleave unto a free woman who thereby becomes his wife'?

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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    That was me. Without going into a long speech let us reverse the argument. Who married Adam and Eve and Isaac and Rebekah? What oath did they take? Which government outside of God's recognized their union? .
    Well again, in Jewish law the mere giving and acceptance of a gift for the purposes of marriage makes it so.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    You notice it doesn't say, 'cleave unto a free woman who thereby becomes his wife'?
    You are correct. I added "free" to avoid writing a a long list of who may marry. A Virgin may marry. A widow may marry. And the Law of Moses insisted that a a dead man's brother take his wife in marriage if his brother died without issue. But this is not what we discuss here. Here, we discuss whether man's traditions are valid. I say they are not. Marriage is the act of copulation between a "free" man and a "free" woman. They are joined by God (Matt.19:6; Mk.10:9) and not by some act of men or of men's laws and/or traditions.

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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    You are correct. I added "free" to avoid writing a a long list of who may marry. A Virgin may marry. A widow may marry. And the Law of Moses insisted that a a dead man's brother take his wife in marriage if his brother died without issue. But this is not what we discuss here. Here, we discuss whether man's traditions are valid. I say they are not. Marriage is the act of copulation between a "free" man and a "free" woman. They are joined by God (Matt.19:6; Mk.10:9) and not by some act of men or of men's laws and/or traditions.
    I wasn't disputing the word 'free'. Try that again.

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    Re: Does this constitute marriage according to the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Well again, in Jewish law the mere giving and acceptance of a gift for the purposes of marriage makes it so.
    Maybe you should have worded that, "Well again, in Jewish TRADITION the mere giving and acceptance of a gift for the purposes of marriage makes it so." Among the Gentiles there are many TRADITIONS that constitute marriage in books written by men. I speak only of the Bible. But I will agree with one thing with you. The Jew is admonished to make vows and a man's word was as an established fact (Num.30:2, Deut.23:23 and Ps.50:14 for example). So if a Jewish man made a vow to take a woman as wife, he was expected to keep it. But the Law of Moses does not recognize his breaking of his word as adultery since no joining took place. It regards his offense as false witness.

    What Christians do with engagements vows, rings, priest or pastors or justices of the peace, with an adjoining wedding and exchange of vows, is pure TRADITIONS of men. And exactly as our Lord Jesus said, these TRADITIONS of men make God's Words of no effect, for the Christian makes vows when his/her Master has forbidden it.

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