Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,826
    Blog Entries
    2

    70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    So, the last 2 decades I have been studying end times events, I have understood the Daniel 9:27 Week prophecy to include a "point" in the EXACT middle of the 7 years where the sacrifices stop, and the transgression of desolation to be set up... Suddenly I read an article that points out that there are two Hebrew words for "midst", and I have an epiphany...

    So the Hebrew word for "midst" of the week is חֵצִי chtsy, khay-tsee'; from H2673; the half or middle:half, middle, mid(-night), midst, part, two parts.

    However there is another word that actual means "middle", תָּוֶךְ tvek, taw'-vek; from an unused root meaning to sever; a bisection, i.e. (by implication) the centre:among(-st), between, half, (there-, where-), in(-to), middle, mid(-night), midst (among), out (of), through, with(-in).

    (KJV) Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    What if the Hebrew word used in Daniel 9:27 means something more like this:

    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the HALF of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    If this is a possibility, can this be true?

    Covenant starts
    1230 days
    Abomination and Sacrifices cease
    1290 days pass according to Daniel 12:11
    70th week ends

    Notice this...
    Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    The text does not explain how the 1290 days ends, but it certainly starts at the Sacrifices ceasing and the Abomination.

    This would bean that at the 1230 day mark from the beginning, you could see the Desecration and the gentiles would begin standing in the outer courts. This would be when the Antichrist is revealed, but He is not KING yet.
    Then in 30 days the Antichrist becomes king, and the 3.5 times of his power over the Saints begins.

    There would be 2 sets of 1260 days, with multiple timelines starting a different times within the 1230 day mark and the 1260 day mark.

    Plausible?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,887

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    So, the last 2 decades I have been studying end times events, I have understood the Daniel 9:27 Week prophecy to include a "point" in the EXACT middle of the 7 years where the sacrifices stop, and the transgression of desolation to be set up... Suddenly I read an article that points out that there are two Hebrew words for "midst", and I have an epiphany...

    So the Hebrew word for "midst" of the week is חֵצִי chtsy, khay-tsee'; from H2673; the half or middle:half, middle, mid(-night), midst, part, two parts.

    However there is another word that actual means "middle", תָּוֶךְ tvek, taw'-vek; from an unused root meaning to sever; a bisection, i.e. (by implication) the centre:among(-st), between, half, (there-, where-), in(-to), middle, mid(-night), midst (among), out (of), through, with(-in).

    (KJV) Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    What if the Hebrew word used in Daniel 9:27 means something more like this:

    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the HALF of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    If this is a possibility, can this be true?

    Covenant starts
    1230 days
    Abomination and Sacrifices cease
    1290 days pass according to Daniel 12:11
    70th week ends

    Notice this...
    Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    The text does not explain how the 1290 days ends, but it certainly starts at the Sacrifices ceasing and the Abomination.

    This would bean that at the 1230 day mark from the beginning, you could see the Desecration and the gentiles would begin standing in the outer courts. This would be when the Antichrist is revealed, but He is not KING yet.
    Then in 30 days the Antichrist becomes king, and the 3.5 times of his power over the Saints begins.

    There would be 2 sets of 1260 days, with multiple timelines starting a different times within the 1230 day mark and the 1260 day mark.

    Plausible?

    Is this the point you are ultimately trying to make? Trying to get on the same page with you here first, before I can determine whether or not that what you are suggesting, if it's plausible. Let's use 1 hour as an example, from 2pm to 3pm. 30 minutes would be half of that hour. It could mean from 2pm to 2:30pm. Or it could mean from 2:30pm to 3:00pm. Or it could mean from 2:01pm to 2:31pm. Or it could mean from 2:10pm to 2:40pm. So on and so on. IOW, even though it's exactly half the hour, it doesn't have to fall in the exact middle of the hour in order to still be half the hour.

    What's interesting though, the fact there is this 2300 days in Daniel 8, this 1290 and 1335 days in Dan 12, and 1260 days in the book of Revelation, and if we consider 7 years as our source, that being 2520 days, all of the above mentioned days might be able to fit in that same 2520 days. The trick would be determining when each begins, and when each ends.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,887

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    While it's on my mind. Those that take Dan 9:27 to be meaning Christ, don't they take the midst to be meaning exactly in the middle of these 7 years? But if it doesn't have to be in the exact middle of the 7 years, wonder what that might make of their proposed interpretation?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    294
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    This issue is a big pet peeve of mine. Under no circumstance is 1290 days ever the 'middle' of 7 years. It's not 3.5 years, it's not the middle of 7 years. So how could people ever try to say that Dan 9:27's covenant is 'broken in the middle of '7' ? (as it is popularly understood)

    42 lunar months is roughly 1239 days, the middle of 7 solar years is 1278.5 days. Let's say we went with the 'middle of 7 Hebrew calendar years'. Even here, let's say from 5 Iyyar, 5778 (Israel's 70th anniversary) to 5 Iyyar, 5785 (April 19/ 20, 2018 through May 2/ 3, 2025) is the 7 years. This is 2570 days, so 'time, times, and a half' here would be 1285 days. Not 1290 days. Not half.

    Also, as it is worded, it could say 'the sacrifices are cut off for half the week' - which means it's ambiguous whether it means the 1st half or the 2nd half - theoretically, the person who was against the sacrifices in the 1st half, could turn around and be for the sacrifices after the 1st half.

    All that said, as to the 'middle/ midst' debate, I still stick to the general meaning of 'middle' meaning exactly half. So, the only real solution to 'half' would be for this to mean a literal week/ 7 days. The covenant is made, and broken 3.5 days later. Which starts 1335 days.

    This seems to rub people the wrong way? Or it is just so unusual, people can't process it. But here is something to chew on: Matt 24:15 says that the abomination, spoken of by Daniel, stands in the holy place. http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-15.htm

    Where is the 'holy place'?

    If there isn't currently a holy place, one has to be anointed. Dan 9:24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.


    Dan 9:24 says it takes 70 '7's to anoint the holy place where the abomination will stand! So how can it be that it takes 70 '7's (where this so-called 70th week is derived from) to create the holy place where the abomination will stand 3.5 years later?! Put another way, the abomination doesn't even occur within 'Daniel's 70th week' as it is taught by the prophecy pundits.

    The solution to this problem is that 70 '7's means multiple things - at the same time. There is indeed a '7 year' aspect, but it is only in relation to Dan 9:2's 70 years of Jerusalem desolations marker. (70 '7' can be literally read as: 70, 7 years .... ie '77 years'.)

    In this manner, I suppose I would agree that it is 'midst' (and 'middle' at the same time): at the 70 years marker, go forward 7 weeks (this June 8, 2018) + 62 weeks to get to the anointing of the antichrist, then go forward 70 weeks to anoint a holy place, then the covenant is made, then broken 3.5 days later. Starts 1335 days. Then 70 weeks to finish the transgression. The start of the 1335 days in my scenario is just as 'midst' as anyone else's scenario.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    1,355
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    So, the last 2 decades I have been studying end times events, I have understood the Daniel 9:27 Week prophecy to include a "point" in the EXACT middle of the 7 years where the sacrifices stop, and the transgression of desolation to be set up... Suddenly I read an article that points out that there are two Hebrew words for "midst", and I have an epiphany...

    So the Hebrew word for "midst" of the week is חֵצִי chtsy, khay-tsee'; from H2673; the half or middle:—half, middle, mid(-night), midst, part, two parts.

    However there is another word that actual means "middle", תָּוֶךְ tvek, taw'-vek; from an unused root meaning to sever; a bisection, i.e. (by implication) the centre:—among(-st), between, half, (there-, where-), in(-to), middle, mid(-night), midst (among), out (of), through, with(-in).

    (KJV) Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    What if the Hebrew word used in Daniel 9:27 means something more like this:

    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the HALF of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    If this is a possibility, can this be true?

    Covenant starts
    1230 days
    Abomination and Sacrifices cease
    1290 days pass according to Daniel 12:11
    70th week ends

    Notice this...
    Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    The text does not explain how the 1290 days ends, but it certainly starts at the Sacrifices ceasing and the Abomination.

    This would bean that at the 1230 day mark from the beginning, you could see the Desecration and the gentiles would begin standing in the outer courts. This would be when the Antichrist is revealed, but He is not KING yet.
    Then in 30 days the Antichrist becomes king, and the 3.5 times of his power over the Saints begins.

    There would be 2 sets of 1260 days, with multiple timelines starting a different times within the 1230 day mark and the 1260 day mark.

    Plausible?
    I agree with the term “midst” instead of direct “middle”. This is basically how I have interpreted the verse for a few years...

    I view the entire period from the covenant until the day 1335 of Dan 12:12 to sum up the 70th week. The promises of Dan 9:24 cannot be fulfilled by the end of 1260 days and require the extra 75 days of Dan 12:11-12 IMO. IOW, the time from the Covenant to the AOD is a shorter period than the traditional 3.5 years. Then the GT last 1260 days when Jesus appears. Over the next 30 days (until day 1290) includes the 2nd coming procession, rapture, resurrection and a land march that ends with the battle for Jerusalem (Armageddon) and ends with the tearing down of the AOD. From day 1290 is the Jewish time period called “Teshuva” in which the Israel and the nations are brought to Jerusalem for judgment. Historically this period is 40days and encompasses the Fall feasts, Feats of Trumpets and Yom Kippur. The 10Days of Awe (Trumpets to Yom Kippur) historically represented days of judgment on the unrighteousness and rewarding of the righteous. I believe this will correspond to the Sheep and Goats. Then there is a 5 days preparation period where they prepare for the feast of tabernacles which I believe corresponds to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. The sum total the festival fulfillments season being 45 days until the wedding which I believe will initiate the kingdom age.



    I realize I am not giving my math or reasons for my statements above. I’m willing to do so if you like but I just wanted to affirm that I’m on the same page with you regarding the MIDST.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,826
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Is this the point you are ultimately trying to make? Trying to get on the same page with you here first, before I can determine whether or not that what you are suggesting, if it's plausible. Let's use 1 hour as an example, from 2pm to 3pm. 30 minutes would be half of that hour. It could mean from 2pm to 2:30pm. Or it could mean from 2:30pm to 3:00pm. Or it could mean from 2:01pm to 2:31pm. Or it could mean from 2:10pm to 2:40pm. So on and so on. IOW, even though it's exactly half the hour, it doesn't have to fall in the exact middle of the hour in order to still be half the hour.

    What's interesting though, the fact there is this 2300 days in Daniel 8, this 1290 and 1335 days in Dan 12, and 1260 days in the book of Revelation, and if we consider 7 years as our source, that being 2520 days, all of the above mentioned days might be able to fit in that same 2520 days. The trick would be determining when each begins, and when each ends.
    The ideas is the "in the midst" could mean "within the first half", and not "in the center".

    The problem with putting the 1335 days at the end of the 1290 days, is that both those timelines start at the ending of sacrifices and Abomination set up... So then they completely overlap with the same starting point.

    I'm saying that the Confirming of a covenant starts the 70th week, then after 1230 days (derived from subtracting 1290 days from 7 times [7x360=2520]) the Abomination of Desolation happens, then 1290 days from that are counted to the end to the 70th week, as indicated by the 1290 day prophecy. Then 45 days later (1335 days after the Abomination, there is a blessing) according to the next verse 1335 prophecy...

    So 1230 days + 1290 Days = 2520 Days = 7 Years. Therefore on the 1230th day is the Abomination of desolation, not on the 1260th Day, as I have always believed. That is what I am asking is plausible or not.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,826
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    While it's on my mind. Those that take Dan 9:27 to be meaning Christ, don't they take the midst to be meaning exactly in the middle of these 7 years? But if it doesn't have to be in the exact middle of the 7 years, wonder what that might make of their proposed interpretation?
    It could be a mere misunderstanding of the text, (if true - and I am not there yet, just proposing), but it most certainly messes with the timing of the "revealing" of the AC, as 2 Thess 2 indicates. It allows him to be revealed without the prophecies of the 42 months and 3.5 times of having power over the Saints starting yet. That could start 30 days later and last to the end of the 70th Week. Any prophecies that start at the 1230 day mark would then finish BEFORE the end of the 70th week. But there are certainly some that MUST happen at the 1260 day mark because they clearly end at the end of the 70th week. There are actually many different sets of 1260 days/42 months/3.5 times.

    That specific time period applies to the following events

    1) Outer Courts Trampled by Gentiles Rev 11:2 - this starts the Clock for 42 months.
    2) Period of 2 Witnesses prophecy Rev11:3
    3) Beast Blasphemes God & Power over Saints Rev 13:5, Daniel 12:7, Daniel 7:25 (which, by the way, links Daniel 7 & Daniel 12 to the Book of Revelation...)


    NOTE: The Daily Sacrifices cease, Abomination of Desolation AND Sanctuary Trampled all start at the same point as indicated by the 2300 Prophecy in Dan 8:13-14 (linking Abomination and sacrifices to the Outer courts desecration together into one date)

    NOTE 2: NONE, and I mean NONE of those 3 instances NEED to have the exact midpoint of the 7 years be the starting point.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,887

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    The ideas is the "in the midst" could mean "within the first half", and not "in the center".

    The problem with putting the 1335 days at the end of the 1290 days, is that both those timelines start at the ending of sacrifices and Abomination set up... So then they completely overlap with the same starting point.

    I'm saying that the Confirming of a covenant starts the 70th week, then after 1230 days (derived from subtracting 1290 days from 7 times [7x360=2520]) the Abomination of Desolation happens, then 1290 days from that are counted to the end to the 70th week, as indicated by the 1290 day prophecy. Then 45 days later (1335 days after the Abomination, there is a blessing) according to the next verse 1335 prophecy...

    So 1230 days + 1290 Days = 2520 Days = 7 Years. Therefore on the 1230th day is the Abomination of desolation, not on the 1260th Day, as I have always believed. That is what I am asking is plausible or not.
    In high school, math was my favorite class. I did pretty well in it actually, even though I was high on drugs at the time. I have always liked things that were challenging to the mind. So I'm liking your math here though I haven't taken the time yet to see if it is working out mathematically. I plan on looking closer at what you have proposed. But one thing I don't see making sense, if the midst is meaning at the beginning of the 7 years, what happens in the midst, that has to parallel the time of the beast per Rev 13. And since I see two 3.5 year time periods in Rev 11 and 13, where the 3.5 year time period of the 2W precedes the time period of the beast in Rev 13, that would place the midst occurring during the time of the 2W rather than the time of the beast. Maybe I'll get what you are proposing all ironed out once I take the time to look closer as to what you are proposing.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,826
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by blur1 View Post
    This issue is a big pet peeve of mine. Under no circumstance is 1290 days ever the 'middle' of 7 years. It's not 3.5 years, it's not the middle of 7 years. So how could people ever try to say that Dan 9:27's covenant is 'broken in the middle of '7' ? (as it is popularly understood)

    42 lunar months is roughly 1239 days, the middle of 7 solar years is 1278.5 days. Let's say we went with the 'middle of 7 Hebrew calendar years'. Even here, let's say from 5 Iyyar, 5778 (Israel's 70th anniversary) to 5 Iyyar, 5785 (April 19/ 20, 2018 through May 2/ 3, 2025) is the 7 years. This is 2570 days, so 'time, times, and a half' here would be 1285 days. Not 1290 days. Not half.

    Also, as it is worded, it could say 'the sacrifices are cut off for half the week' - which means it's ambiguous whether it means the 1st half or the 2nd half - theoretically, the person who was against the sacrifices in the 1st half, could turn around and be for the sacrifices after the 1st half.

    All that said, as to the 'middle/ midst' debate, I still stick to the general meaning of 'middle' meaning exactly half. So, the only real solution to 'half' would be for this to mean a literal week/ 7 days. The covenant is made, and broken 3.5 days later. Which starts 1335 days.

    This seems to rub people the wrong way? Or it is just so unusual, people can't process it. But here is something to chew on: Matt 24:15 says that the abomination, spoken of by Daniel, stands in the holy place. http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-15.htm

    Where is the 'holy place'?

    If there isn't currently a holy place, one has to be anointed. Dan 9:24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.


    Dan 9:24 says it takes 70 '7's to anoint the holy place where the abomination will stand! So how can it be that it takes 70 '7's (where this so-called 70th week is derived from) to create the holy place where the abomination will stand 3.5 years later?! Put another way, the abomination doesn't even occur within 'Daniel's 70th week' as it is taught by the prophecy pundits.


    The solution to this problem is that 70 '7's means multiple things - at the same time. There is indeed a '7 year' aspect, but it is only in relation to Dan 9:2's 70 years of Jerusalem desolations marker. (70 '7' can be literally read as: 70, 7 years .... ie '77 years'.)

    In this manner, I suppose I would agree that it is 'midst' (and 'middle' at the same time): at the 70 years marker, go forward 7 weeks (this June 8, 2018) + 62 weeks to get to the anointing of the antichrist, then go forward 70 weeks to anoint a holy place, then the covenant is made, then broken 3.5 days later. Starts 1335 days. Then 70 weeks to finish the transgression. The start of the 1335 days in my scenario is just as 'midst' as anyone else's scenario.
    As a log time believer in 3.5 years exactly midpoint, I never took the prophecy to mean that exactly to the minute it would happen, which means I would have to know exactly what time the Covenant was signed ect. ect...

    I believe the Holy place is the Most Holy room within the Temple, but it could be simply within the temple. I see no problem with that, because the entire temple is holy.

    I believe the 1290 day, and the 1335 day prophecies both start at the same point, as indicated by the layout of the two verses that give the 2 prophecies.

    Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,826
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    I agree with the term “midst” instead of direct “middle”. This is basically how I have interpreted the verse for a few years...

    I view the entire period from the covenant until the day 1335 of Dan 12:12 to sum up the 70th week. The promises of Dan 9:24 cannot be fulfilled by the end of 1260 days and require the extra 75 days of Dan 12:11-12 IMO. IOW, the time from the Covenant to the AOD is a shorter period than the traditional 3.5 years. Then the GT last 1260 days when Jesus appears. Over the next 30 days (until day 1290) includes the 2nd coming procession, rapture, resurrection and a land march that ends with the battle for Jerusalem (Armageddon) and ends with the tearing down of the AOD. From day 1290 is the Jewish time period called “Teshuva” in which the Israel and the nations are brought to Jerusalem for judgment. Historically this period is 40days and encompasses the Fall feasts, Feats of Trumpets and Yom Kippur. The 10Days of Awe (Trumpets to Yom Kippur) historically represented days of judgment on the unrighteousness and rewarding of the righteous. I believe this will correspond to the Sheep and Goats. Then there is a 5 days preparation period where they prepare for the feast of tabernacles which I believe corresponds to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. The sum total the festival fulfillments season being 45 days until the wedding which I believe will initiate the kingdom age.



    I realize I am not giving my math or reasons for my statements above. I’m willing to do so if you like but I just wanted to affirm that I’m on the same page with you regarding the MIDST.
    So then you believe after the Covenant is agreed upon, there will be 1185 days (2520-1335=1185 days) and then the Abomination of Desolation + the Sacrifices Ceased + then trampling of the outer courts?

    I believe that the blessing happens right after the winning of Armageddon... I believe that the 45 days between the end of the 1290 days and the remaining 45 days until the 1335 days ends which overlap the 1290 days.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,887

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    I agree with the term midst instead of direct middle. This is basically how I have interpreted the verse for a few years...

    I view the entire period from the covenant until the day 1335 of Dan 12:12 to sum up the 70th week. The promises of Dan 9:24 cannot be fulfilled by the end of 1260 days and require the extra 75 days of Dan 12:11-12 IMO. IOW, the time from the Covenant to the AOD is a shorter period than the traditional 3.5 years. Then the GT last 1260 days when Jesus appears. Over the next 30 days (until day 1290) includes the 2nd coming procession, rapture, resurrection and a land march that ends with the battle for Jerusalem (Armageddon) and ends with the tearing down of the AOD. From day 1290 is the Jewish time period called Teshuva in which the Israel and the nations are brought to Jerusalem for judgment. Historically this period is 40days and encompasses the Fall feasts, Feats of Trumpets and Yom Kippur. The 10Days of Awe (Trumpets to Yom Kippur) historically represented days of judgment on the unrighteousness and rewarding of the righteous. I believe this will correspond to the Sheep and Goats. Then there is a 5 days preparation period where they prepare for the feast of tabernacles which I believe corresponds to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. The sum total the festival fulfillments season being 45 days until the wedding which I believe will initiate the kingdom age.



    I realize I am not giving my math or reasons for my statements above. Im willing to do so if you like but I just wanted to affirm that Im on the same page with you regarding the MIDST.
    I find this very interesting. But in order to try and get on the same page with you, I'm thinking you might need to provide your math in order to see how you are determining these things. So if you could, that would be great. I'm liking your thinking here, but still need to see how you are initially determining these things.

    As to those who see the 70 weeks already entirely fulfilled, what a waste of time having to pursue that possibility. Only IMO of course.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    10,687

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    I will just reiterate what I believe, and accept that "midst" could be less precise than the exact middle. I say this simply because I'm not a language expert. Sounds like the OP has already done the work.

    I don't like to confuse the various time periods given with one another. There is 1260 days, 1290 days, 1335 days, 2300 days, etc. I like to keep things simple.

    Dan 7 refers to the Reign of Antichrist for 3.5 years. This is the equivalent of 1260 days and 42 months mentioned in Dan 12.7 and the book of Revelation.

    Dan 8, 11, 12.11 refer to the Reign of Antiochus 4, which is identified in Dan 8 as 2300 days, and in Dan 12.11 as 1290 and 1335 days.


    Dan 9 is an entirely different "kettle of fish." The termination of sacrifice and offering in the midst of a covenant week has to do with an historical consecutive series of weeks of years, leading up to the 1st Coming of Christ. And this is where my personal scenario has difficulties.


    I don't expect anybody here to resolve my personal issues because nobody here seems to share my particular approach to the interpretation. I think historical interpretations have sided with my view, since I've taken my views from them. But current futurists appear to be more interested in futurist interpretations alone.


    My problem is, Who made the covenant? Those who hold to a future view of the 70th Week don't have a problem. They simply assign the covenant to the Antichrist, who makes a covenant for the 70th Week, breaks the covenant in the midst of the 70th Week, and then desolates some future rebuilt temple. This is at least very consistent.


    The trouble with this view is that despite its consistency, it is created out of thin air. It does have some basis, if derived from Dan 7, or if the Dan 8 or 11 prophecies are viewed as the Antichrist.


    The major problem, however, is that 70 consecutive Weeks of years terminate with the 1st Coming of Christ. To detach the 70th Week from the previous 69 Weeks, and then apply it 2000 years later, seems ludicrous to me.


    So I begin with the notion that Dan 9 places the 70th Week in the time of Jesus' death, and see both the 70th Week covenant and the AoD as fulfilled in that general time period. It seems to me that the same one who produces the 70th Week Covenant is the same one who terminates the sacrifice and offerings, and the same one who commits the AoD. But I'm not sure.


    In context it appears to be the "prince to come" who is this one who does these 3 things, a covenant, termination of sacrifice, and desolation of the temple. So I find this "prince to come" to be distinct from the "Anointed One" in the passage, and believe him to be the Roman leadership. As such, these could be 3 distinct governors under Rome, or even proxies of Rome, the apostate Jewish leaders.


    For me, then, the 70th Week covenant is an agreement between Rome and the Jews to continue to recognize Jewish worship at the temple, both sacrifice and offering. In the midst of the week, sacrifice and offering is terminated by the Roman crucifixion of Christ. Jewish worship continues after Christ's death, but it is no longer recognized by God. Finally, Roman proxies, the apostate Jewish leadership, produces abominations in the temple, together with the Roman authorities, producing the abomination that leads to desolation. The AoD is recognized when the abominations takes place and are seen as ultimately leading to the coming of desolating Roman armies.

    This is all about the transition from Judaism to Christianity. Judaism reached its 70th Week, and fell short. The 70 Weeks was designed to lead to Messianic salvation, but it would also lead to the fulness of Jewish sin. Therefore, the 70th Week was terminated early, after 3.5 years of Jesus' ministry. Jesus was rejected by the Jews, and crucified by the Romans.

    The Romans gave the Jews opportunity to legitimately embrace their Messiah, but they would not. Therefore, God allowed the Romans to accommodate the Jews' rejection of Christ by having him crucified. The Jews went on, under Roman authority, to subvert the temple worship, and the Romans themselves subverted temple regulations. The end result was a Roman desolation, the AoD mentioned by Jesus in Matt 24, Mar 13, and Luk 21.


    There were a number of "abominations," committed under Roman authority, that could've led to the desolation. But these precede 70 AD, and will not likely be accepted by many here.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Clanton Alabama
    Posts
    1,026

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    So, the last 2 decades I have been studying end times events, I have understood the Daniel 9:27 Week prophecy to include a "point" in the EXACT middle of the 7 years where the sacrifices stop, and the transgression of desolation to be set up... Suddenly I read an article that points out that there are two Hebrew words for "midst", and I have an epiphany...

    So the Hebrew word for "midst" of the week is חֵצִי chtsy, khay-tsee'; from H2673; the half or middle:—half, middle, mid(-night), midst, part, two parts.

    However there is another word that actual means "middle", תָּוֶךְ tvek, taw'-vek; from an unused root meaning to sever; a bisection, i.e. (by implication) the centre:—among(-st), between, half, (there-, where-), in(-to), middle, mid(-night), midst (among), out (of), through, with(-in).

    (KJV) Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    What if the Hebrew word used in Daniel 9:27 means something more like this:

    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the HALF of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    If this is a possibility, can this be true?

    Covenant starts
    1230 days
    Abomination and Sacrifices cease
    1290 days pass according to Daniel 12:11
    70th week ends

    Notice this...
    Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    The text does not explain how the 1290 days ends, but it certainly starts at the Sacrifices ceasing and the Abomination.

    This would bean that at the 1230 day mark from the beginning, you could see the Desecration and the gentiles would begin standing in the outer courts. This would be when the Antichrist is revealed, but He is not KING yet.
    Then in 30 days the Antichrist becomes king, and the 3.5 times of his power over the Saints begins.

    There would be 2 sets of 1260 days, with multiple timelines starting a different times within the 1230 day mark and the 1260 day mark.

    Plausible?
    I was given this a couple of months back and it seems too complex for people to understand or maybe men's traditions are just blocking my emphasis here. I will try to use a time-line to hammer the point home. KEYS Middle of the week (MOW) Abomination of Desolation (AoD) Covenant/Agreement (Cov.)

    (Cov.)....................1335(2 Witnesses)..........1290(AoD)....1260(MOW)........ ..................Two-witnesses die/2nd Woe........Beast dies 3rd Woe/Jesus Returns.

    The Abomination of Desolation is set up by the False Prophet BEFORE the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Holy peoples the False Prophet takes away their right to worship their God as they see fit because many started worshiping Jesus as their Messiah. Since only 1/3 of the Jews repent, there will be an "ONGOING SQUABBLE" about those who come to the Temple to worship Jesus as "their Messiah" and this False Prophet places an Image of the E.U. President up in the Temple, hes like Jason of Antiochus fame, he is selling out his own people. Jason's name was Yeshua, he changed it to Jason and wanted to Hellenize Israel/Jerusalem so he betrayed his own brother Onias III whom Antiochus had killed. He also mandates they not worship Jesus (THE SACRIFICE).

    Does anyone ever wonder why some Jews heed Jesus' words and FLEES Judea at the 1290 ? (30 days before the 1260). Because of course they have repented and been warned by the Two-witnesses what they need to do and they must have read Mathew ch. 24......Like Malachi 4:5-6 says, Elijah will be sent to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the Day of the Lord starts at the 1260 when the first seal is opened. So the Two-witnesses showing up is the BLESSING Daniel spoke of. Of course BLESSED is he who comes to the (who see the Two-witnesses show up) 1335.

    All three of these numbers are the NUMBER OF DAYS from stated events until THE END OF THESE WONDERS or until Jesus Second Coming.

    Daniel 11:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

    7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

    Let me translate via modern English so you don't have to read the above.

    Jesus or an Angel SWEARS that after the Holy peoples are SCATTERED it will be 1260 days until all of theses Wonders cease (Jesus Returns and does away with the present age as we know it.) Thus its a Middle of the Week event that Scatters the Holy people, but the AoD happens 30 days before the (MOW). The other two numbers must be looked at in like manner. How long from the said EVENT (NUMBERS...1290 and 1335) until these Wonders end (Jesus Returns).

    Daniel 11:11 And from the time that the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (To the END OF THESE WONDERS)

    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (Which is 1335 Days from the END OF THESE WONDERS or Jesus' Second Coming.)

    The KEY here is understanding the 1290 HAS TO COME BEFORE the 1260. Jesus tells them to Flee when they see the AoD, only someone not thinking clearly would suggest Jesus wouldn't tell them to FLEE BEFORE Jerusalem is Conquered !! Else the Anti-Christ would kill them, that is what he desires most!!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,887

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I was given this a couple of months back and it seems too complex for people to understand or maybe men's traditions are just blocking my emphasis here. I will try to use a time-line to hammer the point home. KEYS Middle of the week (MOW) Abomination of Desolation (AoD) Covenant/Agreement (Cov.)

    (Cov.)....................1335(2 Witnesses)..........1290(AoD)....1260(MOW)........ ..................Two-witnesses die/2nd Woe........Beast dies 3rd Woe/Jesus Returns.

    The Abomination of Desolation is set up by the False Prophet BEFORE the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Holy peoples the False Prophet takes away their right to worship their God as they see fit because many started worshiping Jesus as their Messiah. Since only 1/3 of the Jews repent, there will be an "ONGOING SQUABBLE" about those who come to the Temple to worship Jesus as "their Messiah" and this False Prophet places an Image of the E.U. President up in the Temple, hes like Jason of Antiochus fame, he is selling out his own people. Jason's name was Yeshua, he changed it to Jason and wanted to Hellenize Israel/Jerusalem so he betrayed his own brother Onias III whom Antiochus had killed. He also mandates they not worship Jesus (THE SACRIFICE).

    Does anyone ever wonder why some Jews heed Jesus' words and FLEES Judea at the 1290 ? (30 days before the 1260). Because of course they have repented and been warned by the Two-witnesses what they need to do and they must have read Mathew ch. 24......Like Malachi 4:5-6 says, Elijah will be sent to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the Day of the Lord starts at the 1260 when the first seal is opened. So the Two-witnesses showing up is the BLESSING Daniel spoke of. Of course BLESSED is he who comes to the (who see the Two-witnesses show up) 1335.

    All three of these numbers are the NUMBER OF DAYS from stated events until THE END OF THESE WONDERS or until Jesus Second Coming.

    Daniel 11:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

    7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

    Let me translate via modern English so you don't have to read the above.

    Jesus or an Angel SWEARS that after the Holy peoples are SCATTERED it will be 1260 days until all of theses Wonders cease (Jesus Returns and does away with the present age as we know it.) Thus its a Middle of the Week event that Scatters the Holy people, but the AoD happens 30 days before the (MOW). The other two numbers must be looked at in like manner. How long from the said EVENT (NUMBERS...1290 and 1335) until these Wonders end (Jesus Returns).

    Daniel 11:11 And from the time that the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (To the END OF THESE WONDERS)

    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (Which is 1335 Days from the END OF THESE WONDERS or Jesus' Second Coming.)

    The KEY here is understanding the 1290 HAS TO COME BEFORE the 1260. Jesus tells them to Flee when they see the AoD, only someone not thinking clearly would suggest Jesus wouldn't tell them to FLEE BEFORE Jerusalem is Conquered !! Else the Anti-Christ would kill them, that is what he desires most !!
    Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.


    The question is, all that will see this, will they all see it at the same time? What if some see it on day 1, others see it on day 5, others on day 30, etc, does that mean the ones that initially failed to see it on day 1, that fleeing into the mountains is no longer an option at this point? But if it is no longer an option it seems to contradict the text. The text indicates one is to flee into the mountains once seeing this. If some don't see this until day 30, it seems to me they still satisfy the requirements of the text, and that is the seeing of this, thus the option to flee into the mountains should still be valid. Or if not that, we have to assume everyone that will see this, they all see it at the same time.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Clanton Alabama
    Posts
    1,026

    Re: 70th Week midst... Not the Midpoint?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.


    The question is, all that will see this, will they all see it at the same time? What if some see it on day 1, others see it on day 5, others on day 30, etc, does that mean the ones that initially failed to see it on day 1, that fleeing into the mountains is no longer an option at this point? But if it is no longer an option it seems to contradict the text. The text indicates one is to flee into the mountains once seeing this. If some don't see this until day 30, it seems to me they still satisfy the requirements of the text, and that is the seeing of this, thus the option to flee into the mountains should still be valid. Or if not that, we have to assume everyone that will see this, they all see it at the same time.
    It will not be a Secret, this False Prophet will RESTRICT all worship of Jesus in the Temple thus the word will get out what has happened, he will let people in who wants to serve this Image, most will be Atheist like Jews who are going in to see it, they see it as this MAN (whoever the False Prophet is) MOCKING the Jews who have repented, the 1/3 which = like maybe 2 million Jews. By placing this Image in the Temple, hes both Mocking these Jews who have accepted Jesus and hes trying to gain favor of what he sees as an inevitable situation, just like much of the world knew Hitler was going to blitzkrieg Poland and France, but nothing could be done at that moment in time. So hes going to became his "MINISTER OF RELIGION" so to speak.

    So the Jews will understand what is going on. His reasoning of doing this is to gain favor with this E.U. President/Anti-Christ, so of course hes going to make it public. Their problem is they need to heed Jesus' voice, and they are NEW BELIEVERS, so they need to leave as soon as they see this like Jesus warns.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Information Last Half of the 70th Week
    By Cyberseeker in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 149
    Last Post: Dec 24th 2017, 08:46 AM
  2. Daniel's 70th Week cont.
    By randyk in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 348
    Last Post: Feb 1st 2016, 07:46 PM
  3. The 70th week: Fulfilled, unfulfilled?
    By seeker_truth in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 254
    Last Post: Jun 18th 2015, 06:12 PM
  4. The 70th Week (the last 3.5)
    By Beckrl in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: Jul 11th 2010, 03:33 AM
  5. In the midst of the Seventy week.
    By Beckrl in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: Jun 6th 2010, 03:19 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •