Page 1 of 41 123456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 601

Thread: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    6,435
    Blog Entries
    13

    Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    I normally avoid regurgitating topics that have been exhaustively debated over the years. But unfortunately, some of the topics, especially those at the heart of eschatology seem to have a recurring theme. With opinions and interpretations as numerous and diverse as the sand on a beach, it becomes impossible to avoid revisiting these subjects time and again.

    This thread is necessitated by a relative discussion in another OP.

    According to 3 synoptic Gospel's account of the Olivet Discourse, what is your understanding of the following:


    1. Do you believe that the Great Tribulation (Matt 24:21-22; Mark 13:19-20; Luke 21:22) is exclusively a Jewish tribulation or will it have world-wide ramifications i.e. affects Gentiles too?
    2. Some argue that it (G.T) already started from the Antiochus 4 era, yet others assert that it started from 70 AD. Do you agree with this view or do you believe it is an end-time event?
    3. What do you understand by "shortening the tribulation to save lives" (Matt 24:22)?


    Please support your views with scripture.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,897
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    1/ the GT is directed against those who have taken the 'mark of the beast'. To a degree, this will be worldwide, but there will be a place of safety for those faithful Christians who refused to violate the Covenant. Daniel 11:32, Revelation 12:14
    The Jewish people have no specific part to play in this, they are just as every people group; some faithful to God, but the majority; not and who will accept the 'mark'.

    2/ What did start at the Ascension of Jesus, was the first five Seals. Revelation 6:1-11 They have brought the world all those disasters. The actual GT of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, will start when the Anti-Christ desecrates the Temple, by sitting in the Holy of Holies. And will last for exactly 1260 days, then Jesus Returns. Revelation 13:5, Daniel 9:27

    3/ We do not have enough info about this. Speculation is worthless.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,285

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I normally avoid regurgitating topics that have been exhaustively debated over the years. But unfortunately, some of the topics, especially those at the heart of eschatology seem to have a recurring theme. With opinions and interpretations as numerous and diverse as the sand on a beach, it becomes impossible to avoid revisiting these subjects time and again.

    This thread is necessitated by a relative discussion in another OP.

    According to 3 synoptic Gospel's account of the Olivet Discourse, what is your understanding of the following:


    1. Do you believe that the Great Tribulation (Matt 24:21-22; Mark 13:19-20; Luke 21:22) is exclusively a Jewish tribulation or will it have world-wide ramifications i.e. affects Gentiles too?
    2. Some argue that it (G.T) already started from the Antiochus 4 era, yet others assert that it started from 70 AD. Do you agree with this view or do you believe it is an end-time event?
    3. What do you understand by "shortening the tribulation to save lives" (Matt 24:22)?


    Please support your views with scripture.
    1. The so-called "Great Tribulation" will encompass all the earth. In Revelation 3:10 our Lord Jesus speaks out a REWARD. It is, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, ... ". Then He goes on to say what He will keep them from, "... I also will keep thee from the hour of trial ... ", and finally the SCOPE of the TRIAL, "... which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." In harmony with this is the Lord's statement in Matthew 24:21-22; "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Verse 21 does not give the SCOPE of the "great tribulation", but it states that it will be worse than the flood of Noah and thus implies it to be UNIVERSAL. Then verse 22 gives the SCOPE of this "great tribulation". It comes on "ALL FLESH" for if it is left to run its course it would wipe out "all flesh", even the "elect". "All flesh" would include the animals too.
    2. In Matthew 24:15-22 the starting point of the Great Tribulation is laid down. 15. "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) .... 21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." That is, when the Beast, or in Daniel's case, a Roman prince, stops the daily oblation 3 years into the 70th SEVEN, and sets up himself and his golden effigy in the Holy of Holies, THEN does the Tribulation start. Then, seeing as Daniel says that at the end of the 70th SEVEN in Daniel 9:24, "is determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, (i) to finish the transgression, and (ii) to make an end of sins, and (iii) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and (iv) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and (v) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy", the Great Tribulation must last 3 years. This is confirmed in other scriptures like Revelation 11:2-3, 12:6, 14 and 13:5.
    3. The "Elect" are the Jewish Remnant who turn back to the Law and oppose the Beast's breaking the Law by having a Gentile king, a Gentile king in the Holy of Holies and a Gentile king's effigy in the Holy of Holies. In Deuteronomy 30:1-5 Moses prophesied that God will recover Israel, even after they have been dispersed among all nations for breaking the Covenant of Sinai. The condition for God to move is that certain Israelis would turn back to what Moses was expounding "that day". On "that day", Moses was expounding the Law. Just as God has always kept a faithful REMNANT for Himself through the centuries, so He will have this REMNANT at the end of the age. These are those predicted in Romans 9:27 and 11:5. They are those who, from the Twelve Tribes of Israel, are "sealed" in Revelation 7:1-8 so that the effects of the Great Tribulation do not kill them. They are seen again in Revelation 12 as those, who, having incurred the wrath of Satan by "keeping the Commandments of God" (just as Moses predicted), must flee to the wilderness for the duration of the Great Tribulation. The context of Matthew 24:1-31 is ALL JEWISH, and thus the "elect" of verse 31 must be Jews. They are the only ones who have been dispersed to the "four winds" (Ezek.37:9, Zech.2:6). The conditions during the Great Tribulation PLUS the efforts of Satan to kill this REMNANT would finally win if God did not shorten the days of Tribulation to 1260 days, 42 months and/or a "time, times and half a time".

    The Great Tribulation;
    1. Is still future
    2. Encompasses all the earth
    3. Lasts 3 years

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,761

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    1/ the GT is directed against those who have taken the 'mark of the beast'. To a degree, this will be worldwide, but there will be a place of safety for those faithful Christians who refused to violate the Covenant. Daniel 11:32, Revelation 12:14
    The Jewish people have no specific part to play in this, they are just as every people group; some faithful to God, but the majority; not and who will accept the 'mark'.
    I tend to think you are confusing the GT with that of the wrath of God. That's what Pretribbers typically do as well, though I realize you yourself are not a Pretribber. It is after the time of the GT when things are then directed against those who have taken the mark of the beast. And not during the GT instead.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,285

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I tend to think you are confusing the GT with that of the wrath of God. That's what Pretribbers typically do as well, though I realize you yourself are not a Pretribber. It is after the time of the GT when things are then directed against those who have taken the mark of the beast. And not during the GT instead.
    How can that be? According to Matthew 24:29-31 ...

    29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."


    ... three things happen IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Great Tribulation;
    1. The "powers of heaven" are shaken. That is no doubt the ejection of all fallen angels - "stars" that fall. The ripping of one third of the heavenly principalities would shake heaven, and the accompanying signs of darkness indicate God's judgement - this time not on men but on those in heaven who are His enemies.
    2. Christ returns from the sky
    3. Israel is gathered from the nations

    AFTER the Great Tribulation Christ begins the work of restoring the earth and particularly Israel.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    9,274

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I normally avoid regurgitating topics that have been exhaustively debated over the years. But unfortunately, some of the topics, especially those at the heart of eschatology seem to have a recurring theme. With opinions and interpretations as numerous and diverse as the sand on a beach, it becomes impossible to avoid revisiting these subjects time and again.

    This thread is necessitated by a relative discussion in another OP.

    According to 3 synoptic Gospel's account of the Olivet Discourse, what is your understanding of the following:


    1. Do you believe that the Great Tribulation (Matt 24:21-22; Mark 13:19-20; Luke 21:22) is exclusively a Jewish tribulation or will it have world-wide ramifications i.e. affects Gentiles too?
    2. Some argue that it (G.T) already started from the Antiochus 4 era, yet others assert that it started from 70 AD. Do you agree with this view or do you believe it is an end-time event?
    3. What do you understand by "shortening the tribulation to save lives" (Matt 24:22)?


    Please support your views with scripture.
    You know my view, brother. My view, however, gets lost over the many contrasting views, so I'd like to regurgitate, as well.

    The Great Tribulation began in 70 AD and ends at the end of the age. A time of trouble actually began before that, in the time of Antiochus 4 and following.

    This necessitated the rise of Michael the Archangel to protect the Jewish People until their promised hope could be fulfilled. The trouble I refer to is the intertestamental period, in which the Jews experienced a degree of autonomy, but never a full recovery to national glory.

    The Romans overshadowed Israel, and ultimately took control over her. And this is what led to the 70 AD Great Tribulation.

    Obviously, all of this prophecy was focused upon the Jewish People primarily, even as Jesus gathered followers from among the Jewish People. It was a forecast of Israel's future history, both Christian and non-Christian.

    I'm perfectly willing to provide all of the pertinent Scriptures passages to validate this position. Just ask--I've provided them recently.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,897
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I tend to think you are confusing the GT with that of the wrath of God. That's what Pretribbers typically do as well, though I realize you yourself are not a Pretribber. It is after the time of the GT when things are then directed against those who have taken the mark of the beast. And not during the GT instead.
    Right divaD, there is confusion over the GT and the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath.
    But that Day is not after the Return, but years before; at the Sixth Seal. The confusion arises with the idea that Matthew 24:29 means a further and separate Judgement. But that verse doesn't say that, just some cosmic signs, which may immediately precede the Return of Jesus, or a little time before it; during the Seventh Bowl. Revelation 16:17-23

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    9,274

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    There is so much confusion over Luke 21. I just wish we would *believe* what Jesus said, instead of trying to fit it into our pet theologies! Here it is again...

    Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

    1) In bold letters you see "great distress." This is synonymous with "great tribulation." One person has disputed that, but I think it's a pretty reasonable consideration.

    Matt 24.15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

    Mark 13 says pretty much the same thing as Matt 24. In all 3 cases we are talking about the *same Discourse.* In all 3 cases we see a point in the dialogue where a "great distress" or a "great tribulation" takes place. It makes sense that "great distress" and "great tribulation" mean the same thing.

    2) In Luke 21 above you can see that this plainly indicates the desolation of Jerusalem in 70 AD is being talked about. In all 3 synoptic versions of the Olivet Discourse this Discourse begins with an announcement of the desolation of the temple. That took place in 70 AD. It makes sense to believe, therefore, that all 3 versions are speaking of the exact same desolation of Jerusalem, which took place in 70 AD, and of the Jewish Dispersion that followed. This is the "great distress" that Jesus was speaking of in Luke 21. If anybody questions this, I have to wonder if their bias has overcome their objectivity or their willingness to be flexible in their thinking?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,761

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    How can that be? According to Matthew 24:29-31 ...

    29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."


    ... three things happen IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Great Tribulation;
    1. The "powers of heaven" are shaken. That is no doubt the ejection of all fallen angels - "stars" that fall. The ripping of one third of the heavenly principalities would shake heaven, and the accompanying signs of darkness indicate God's judgement - this time not on men but on those in heaven who are His enemies.
    2. Christ returns from the sky
    3. Israel is gathered from the nations

    AFTER the Great Tribulation Christ begins the work of restoring the earth and particularly Israel.
    Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
    2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.


    Verse 1 clearly calls these the vials of the wrath of God. Note whom the first one is poured out on. It is poured out on the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. But until a beast first rises out of the sea, and one of it's heads has a deadly wound that was healed, then another beast rises out of the earth, then suggests making an image to the beast with the deadly wound that was healed, and then causing all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads, how could any vials be poured out on the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image, before there is even a mark to take or not take?

    Apparently then, the 42 months the beast is given to continue, this has to first be fulfilled before any vials are being unleashed on anyone.

    Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


    Does it sound like anyone is being plagued by vials of wrath at this time? No, unless one would have us believe that they wondered who is like unto the beast?...who is able to make war with him?...while experiencing a noisome and grievous sore at the same time. Not to mention the effects of the other vials.

    1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    Does it sound like, per Revelation 13:4, that utter sudden destruction has already come upon them at this point? No. Therefore, during the 42 month reign of the beast, those worshiping it, they would be saying peace and safety, from their perspective of things. But when the first vial of wrath is poured out on them, it would be equal to sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. This would be after the GT. This would be during the time of the 6th seal, the same era of time Matt 24:29 makes mention of after the GT but prior to the 2nd coming, that being when the sun shall be darkened, etc.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,761

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Right divaD, there is confusion over the GT and the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath.
    But that Day is not after the Return, but years before; at the Sixth Seal. The confusion arises with the idea that Matthew 24:29 means a further and separate Judgement. But that verse doesn't say that, just some cosmic signs, which may immediately precede the Return of Jesus, or a little time before it; during the Seventh Bowl. Revelation 16:17-23
    I wouldn't say years before His return though. Don't know where you are getting that idea from? Why do you feel the 6th seal is years before His return?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,324
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    1. Lasts 3 years
    The GT would be from 1290 to the 1335 day not 3.5 years.

    Dan12
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    1290th day +

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    It is pretty clear.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,324
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    [*]What do you understand by "shortening the tribulation to save lives" (Matt 24:22)?[/LIST]
    So it is the "elects" flesh to be spared. Now thru scipture the elect is Israel. And I dont see any believers on earth when Christ returns as that would mean some to survive the mark of the beast which scipture says they do not. So then is there a "living" remnant of Israel on earth when Christ returns?

    If there are then HOW do they inherit the kingdom as mortals? How do they die? are they killed by Christ?

    So I think the key word here is "flesh" does this really mean living people? I don't think so.... There are different types of flesh.

    39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
    40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

    Thus is it possible the flesh to be saved would be celestrial? This is why I say this......

    The elect being Israel are beheaded for thier witness prior and are seen with the lamb on Mt. Zion BEFORE this great tribulation. Rev 14. To me they are the army of God upon his return and being celestrial to have flesh which could be detroyed by fire thus God shortens his wrath to preserve them.

    All other flesh on earth is destroyed. And again the only flesh on earth is flesh and blood which are the wicked.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,897
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I wouldn't say years before His return though. Don't know where you are getting that idea from? Why do you feel the 6th seal is years before His return?
    Because the Seventh Seal is a time gap of about 20 years. Revelation 8:1..... there was about a half hour of silence in heaven.....
    Using the given formula of one day to God equals 1000 years earth time, Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8, 1/48th of a day / 1/48th of 1000 years =20.8 years.
    This time period is about right for all that is prophesied to happen between the Sixth Seal and the glorious Return of Jesus.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    9,274

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I tend to think you are confusing the GT with that of the wrath of God. That's what Pretribbers typically do as well, though I realize you yourself are not a Pretribber. It is after the time of the GT when things are then directed against those who have taken the mark of the beast. And not during the GT instead.
    I'm certainly not a Pretribber, but Luke 21 defines the "Great Tribulation" as the "Wrath" of God.

    Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

    It seems very clear, as I've said repeatedly, that this demonstrated wrath of God against the Jewish People hit a high mark in 70 AD, and initiated a long period of Jewish Diaspora. They were dispersed from Israel, and since then they've wandered. This is a period of God's wrath against them for having adopted a religion outside the context of God's covenant with them, which He made through Jesus.

    This is so plain from the context of the synoptic gospels, Matt 24, Mar 13, and Luke 21. They all begin the Discourse with news of the approaching destruction of the temple in "this generation." It happened in 70 AD, in the generation of Jesus. And this period would end at the 2nd Coming, at the fulfillment of the times of the Gentiles. It will be cut off because of the survival of the Jewish elect, which are Christians.

    All of this is so obvious. All three synoptic gospels say the same thing. The AoD, which was the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. And then the dispersion of the Jews, leading to an age-long wandering of the Jewish People. This is in fact the worst punishment in Israel's history, due to its length and due to the many terrors involved in pogroms and holocausts. It will be cut short to save Israel so that Israel may become a Christian nation.

    Nothing could be more clear. And yet so few choose to believe what Jesus said in Luke 21! This long period of Jewish desolation in the NT period will be cut off to preserve Israel from extinction. But it takes place on behalf of the Christians in Israel, the "elect" of God. And so, when Christ returns he will gather his elect, the Christians from throughout the world.

    This great ingathering of Christians from Israel, who have been dispersed throughout the world, will also include Christians from other nations, according to Paul. But Jesus was here talking primarily of Israel, because at that time only Israel was in view. Restoration of the Christians in Israel make way for the restoration of the whole nation.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,324
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I'm certainly not a Pretribber, but Luke 21 defines the "Great Tribulation" as the "Wrath" of God.

    Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

    It seems very clear, as I've said repeatedly, that this demonstrated wrath of God against the Jewish People hit a high mark in 70 AD, and initiated a long period of Jewish Diaspora. They were dispersed from Israel, and since then they've wandered. This is a period of God's wrath against them for having adopted a religion outside the context of God's covenant with them, which He made through Jesus.

    This is so plain from the context of the synoptic gospels, Matt 24, Mar 13, and Luke 21. They all begin the Discourse with news of the approaching destruction of the temple in "this generation." It happened in 70 AD, in the generation of Jesus. And this period would end at the 2nd Coming, at the fulfillment of the times of the Gentiles. It will be cut off because of the survival of the Jewish elect, which are Christians.

    All of this is so obvious. All three synoptic gospels say the same thing. The AoD, which was the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. And then the dispersion of the Jews, leading to an age-long wandering of the Jewish People. This is in fact the worst punishment in Israel's history, due to its length and due to the many terrors involved in pogroms and holocausts. It will be cut short to save Israel so that Israel may become a Christian nation.

    Nothing could be more clear. And yet so few choose to believe what Jesus said in Luke 21! This long period of Jewish desolation in the NT period will be cut off to preserve Israel from extinction. But it takes place on behalf of the Christians in Israel, the "elect" of God. And so, when Christ returns he will gather his elect, the Christians from throughout the world.

    This great ingathering of Christians from Israel, who have been dispersed throughout the world, will also include Christians from other nations, according to Paul. But Jesus was here talking primarily of Israel, because at that time only Israel was in view. Restoration of the Christians in Israel make way for the restoration of the whole nation.
    I would say the wrath of God are the 7 vials which equals the GT

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Discussion Tribulation, Great Tribulation, and the Wrath of God
    By seeker_truth in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 90
    Last Post: Jun 6th 2018, 05:28 AM
  2. The great tribulation. Only one? Or more than one?
    By divaD in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 183
    Last Post: Feb 14th 2017, 10:31 PM
  3. Information What is the Great Tribulation
    By Vakeros in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: Mar 29th 2013, 10:39 PM
  4. The Great Tribulation
    By jeffweeder in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: Dec 10th 2009, 07:04 AM
  5. When is the great tribulation?
    By vinsight4u8 in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Apr 17th 2009, 11:09 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •