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Thread: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

  1. #601
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    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    In addition, I believe that the Jewish Christian community of today will grow and swell in number as the end times approach. It is these Christian believers that will heed the call to escape into the desert for succour.

    The intransigent unbelieving Jews will be slaughtered, their wives raped, etc. when Jerusalem falls to the Antichrist (Zech 14:2).
    Right, it's heart-breaking. Here are God's chosen people--some of the brightest, wisest in the world--and yet so foolish as to become extremely liberal in their practices! God will surely afflict these with judgment, while showing mercy to the humble--to those who are open to change?

    I visited Israel in 1976, and on the street I stayed (near the Damascus Gate)--I saw not far away a building that advertised *in English* the "Cross and the Switchblade" movie! And from the time I 1st heard the "Liberated Wailing Wall" music group, representing the Jews for Jesus, until now, there has been a swell of Messianic Jews, and a number of MJ rabbis/pastors leading their flocks to bridge differences between Christians and Jews. This has been very encouraging.

    So a showdown is coming in Israel. I pray that Israel survive against the abuses of the world, against those who hate her--Muslims, and even liberal Christians who sometimes think Muslims own Israel's real estate. I pray for their survival, and for the fulfillment of prophecy. A remnant must always convert to Christ, until Christ comes to "divide the sheep from the goats." The intransigent will be removed, so that Israel will truly become "God's chosen people" once again. Only this time it will include many "chosen nations" across the world, who have converted to Christianity themselves. The Lord will be king over all nations.

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    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Right, it's heart-breaking. Here are God's chosen people--some of the brightest, wisest in the world--and yet so foolish as to become extremely liberal in their practices! God will surely afflict these with judgment, while showing mercy to the humble--to those who are open to change?

    I visited Israel in 1976, and on the street I stayed (near the Damascus Gate)--I saw not far away a building that advertised *in English* the "Cross and the Switchblade" movie! And from the time I 1st heard the "Liberated Wailing Wall" music group, representing the Jews for Jesus, until now, there has been a swell of Messianic Jews, and a number of MJ rabbis/pastors leading their flocks to bridge differences between Christians and Jews. This has been very encouraging.

    So a showdown is coming in Israel. I pray that Israel survive against the abuses of the world, against those who hate her--Muslims, and even liberal Christians who sometimes think Muslims own Israel's real estate. I pray for their survival, and for the fulfillment of prophecy. A remnant must always convert to Christ, until Christ comes to "divide the sheep from the goats." The intransigent will be removed, so that Israel will truly become "God's chosen people" once again. Only this time it will include many "chosen nations" across the world, who have converted to Christianity themselves. The Lord will be king over all nations.
    Any idea how Benjamin Netanyahu's recent policy for Israel to be identified exclusively as a Jewish state impact the growth of Jewish Christians (messianic Jews)?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Right, it's heart-breaking. Here are God's chosen people--some of the brightest, wisest in the world--and yet so foolish as to become extremely liberal in their practices! God will surely afflict these with judgment, while showing mercy to the humble--to those who are open to change?

    I visited Israel in 1976, and on the street I stayed (near the Damascus Gate)--I saw not far away a building that advertised *in English* the "Cross and the Switchblade" movie! And from the time I 1st heard the "Liberated Wailing Wall" music group, representing the Jews for Jesus, until now, there has been a swell of Messianic Jews, and a number of MJ rabbis/pastors leading their flocks to bridge differences between Christians and Jews. This has been very encouraging.

    So a showdown is coming in Israel. I pray that Israel survive against the abuses of the world, against those who hate her--Muslims, and even liberal Christians who sometimes think Muslims own Israel's real estate. I pray for their survival, and for the fulfillment of prophecy. A remnant must always convert to Christ, until Christ comes to "divide the sheep from the goats." The intransigent will be removed, so that Israel will truly become "God's chosen people" once again. Only this time it will include many "chosen nations" across the world, who have converted to Christianity themselves. The Lord will be king over all nations.
    Any idea how Benjamin Netanyahu's recent policy for Israel to be identified exclusively as a Jewish state impact the growth of Jewish Christians (messianic Jews)?

  3. #603
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    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Any idea how Benjamin Netanyahu's recent policy for Israel to be identified exclusively as a Jewish state impact the growth of Jewish Christians (messianic Jews)?
    I know that's always been the goal, in order to preserve Jewish ethnicity and religion. It would do no good to allow a huge number of either Muslims or Christians to come in and dominate the state's democratic elections, in effect turning the nation into another potentially hostile situation for Jews.

    Can you imagine what would happen, for example, if all of the Muslims who have left Israel, and all of their relatives, were able to return to Israel and democratically elect a new Muslim state? There would be nowhere else in the world for Jews to go except to other democracies who gradually discard the Jews, as at other times.

    Although Christianity in the US or in GB have allowed rights for Jews under their democratic systems, how long would it be before liberalism comes to dominate, and Jews are rejected as "narrow?"

    Jews have either been kicked out of Christian countries or suffered abuses. There needs to be a state that provides political cover for Jews in this time in history.

    Israel is presently filling in tunnels in the North, next to Lebanon. Is there a declaration in the UN body yet that declares such tunnel building a legitimate grievance against Iran? Iran is gradually clearing a path to send troops to Israel with weapons that could destroy her in an hour. It is just a matter of time until Armageddon takes place. That's what I think.

    As far as tolerance for Christians, I don't think Israel has much choice. Her biggest supporter, the US, has many Christians who lead the way in supporting Israel. Although Christianity among Jews is discouraged, I don't think Christians will be pushed out of Israel anytime soon--not until AntiChristianity takes power in some form.

    I think that the prophecy of the 144,000 is a prophecy of the necessity of there being a remnant of Christians among the Jews throughout history, and especially at the end of the age *in Israel.* And so, Christianity cannot go away in Israel until the Antichrist himself persecutes the 2 Witnesses, which will not lead to their deaths until the very end of the age.

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    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I know that's always been the goal, in order to preserve Jewish ethnicity and religion. It would do no good to allow a huge number of either Muslims or Christians to come in and dominate the state's democratic elections, in effect turning the nation into another potentially hostile situation for Jews.

    I'm arguing for the Israeli Muslims who are Jewish but for the messianic Jew. In this regard, I don't understand your fear of Jewish Christians dominating the state elections?

    a. Messianic Jews are still Jews by ethnicity and are unlikely to do anything that will threaten the Jewish pride and identity.
    b. You nurture the hope of Israel becoming truly a Christian nation at some point - will this ambition not be enhanced by a growing number of the Jewish population becoming Christian? Since you advocate the aspiration, why fear a huge number of Jewish Christians doing well in national elections?


    Can you imagine what would happen, for example, if all of the Muslims who have left Israel, and all of their relatives, were able to return to Israel and democratically elect a new Muslim state? There would be nowhere else in the world for Jews to go except to other democracies who gradually discard the Jews, as at other times.

    Although Christianity in the US or in GB have allowed rights for Jews under their democratic systems, how long would it be before liberalism comes to dominate, and Jews are rejected as "narrow?"

    Jews have either been kicked out of Christian countries or suffered abuses. There needs to be a state that provides political cover for Jews in this time in history.

    Israel is presently filling in tunnels in the North, next to Lebanon. Is there a declaration in the UN body yet that declares such tunnel building a legitimate grievance against Iran? Iran is gradually clearing a path to send troops to Israel with weapons that could destroy her in an hour. It is just a matter of time until Armageddon takes place. That's what I think.

    As far as tolerance for Christians, I don't think Israel has much choice. Her biggest supporter, the US, has many Christians who lead the way in supporting Israel. Although Christianity among Jews is discouraged, I don't think Christians will be pushed out of Israel anytime soon--not until AntiChristianity takes power in some form.

    I think that the prophecy of the 144,000 is a prophecy of the necessity of there being a remnant of Christians among the Jews throughout history, and especially at the end of the age *in Israel.* And so, Christianity cannot go away in Israel until the Antichrist himself persecutes the 2 Witnesses, which will not lead to their deaths until the very end of the age.
    I'm NOT arguing for the Israeli Muslims who are not Jews but for the messianic Jew. In this regard, I don't understand your fear of Jewish Christians dominating the state elections?

    a. Messianic Jews are still Jews by ethnicity and are unlikely to do anything that will threaten the Jewish pride and identity.
    b. You seem to nurture the hope of Israel becoming truly a Christian nation at some point - will this ambition not be enhanced by a growing number of the Jewish population becoming Christian?
    c. Since you advocate the aspiration of Israel turning Jesus as their Messiah, then why fear a huge number of Jewish Christians doing well in national elections and thereby influencing Christian policy in their national polity?

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    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I'm NOT arguing for the Israeli Muslims who are not Jews but for the messianic Jew. In this regard, I don't understand your fear of Jewish Christians dominating the state elections?

    a. Messianic Jews are still Jews by ethnicity and are unlikely to do anything that will threaten the Jewish pride and identity.
    b. You seem to nurture the hope of Israel becoming truly a Christian nation at some point - will this ambition not be enhanced by a growing number of the Jewish population becoming Christian?
    c. Since you advocate the aspiration of Israel turning Jesus as their Messiah, then why fear a huge number of Jewish Christians doing well in national elections and thereby influencing Christian policy in their national polity?
    I *don't* fear MJs being in the ascendancy in Israel's politics. I'm just expressing the *Jewish mindset* in terms of their tendency to discourage Christian conversion among their own. You're very wrong to think I'm opposed to this! On the contrary, I think the prophecy of the 144,000 guarantees that Israel will have a Christian remnant made up of legitimate Jews who live in Israel in the endtimes. That's why their said to be of Jewish blood, from *all* of the tribes of Israel.

    I had a friend who had a Jewish mother and was Christian move to Israel, and I encouraged it. He "made aliyah." When he got there he wrote back later than he was encouraged by fellow believers not to use the word "Jesus." That bothered me, but I understood the opposition from the Jewish community in Israel. I've now lost track of the brother, so I don't know the situation now. This was many, many years ago--back in the 80s, I believe.

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    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I *don't* fear MJs being in the ascendancy in Israel's politics. I'm just expressing the *Jewish mindset* in terms of their tendency to discourage Christian conversion among their own. You're very wrong to think I'm opposed to this! On the contrary, I think the prophecy of the 144,000 guarantees that Israel will have a Christian remnant made up of legitimate Jews who live in Israel in the endtimes. That's why their said to be of Jewish blood, from *all* of the tribes of Israel.
    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I know that's always been the goal, in order to preserve Jewish ethnicity and religion. It would do no good to allow a huge number of either Muslims or Christians to come in and dominate the state's democratic elections, in effect turning the nation into another potentially hostile situation for Jews.
    I was merely responding to your remarks in red above. Unless you admit in hindsight that it was an error, otherwise, your position is clearly that of concern that growth in the number Christian Jews will negatively affect the Jewish state - Judaism, perhaps? This contradicts your long standing hope of Israel becoming a Christian nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I *don't* fear MJs being in the ascendancy in Israel's politics. I'm just expressing the *Jewish mindset* in terms of their tendency to discourage Christian conversion among their own. You're very wrong to think I'm opposed to this! On the contrary, I think the prophecy of the 144,000 guarantees that Israel will have a Christian remnant made up of legitimate Jews who live in Israel in the endtimes. That's why their said to be of Jewish blood, from *all* of the tribes of Israel.
    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I know that's always been the goal, in order to preserve Jewish ethnicity and religion. It would do no good to allow a huge number of either Muslims or Christians to come in and dominate the state's democratic elections, in effect turning the nation into another potentially hostile situation for Jews.
    I was merely responding to your remarks in red above. Unless you admit in hindsight that it was an error, otherwise, your position is clearly that of concern that growth in the number Christian Jews will negatively affect the Jewish state - Judaism, perhaps? This contradicts your long standing hope of Israel becoming a Christian nation.

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    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I *don't* fear MJs being in the ascendancy in Israel's politics. I'm just expressing the *Jewish mindset* in terms of their tendency to discourage Christian conversion among their own. You're very wrong to think I'm opposed to this! On the contrary, I think the prophecy of the 144,000 guarantees that Israel will have a Christian remnant made up of legitimate Jews who live in Israel in the endtimes. That's why their said to be of Jewish blood, from *all* of the tribes of Israel.
    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I know that's always been the goal, in order to preserve Jewish ethnicity and religion. It would do no good to allow a huge number of either Muslims or Christians to come in and dominate the state's democratic elections, in effect turning the nation into another potentially hostile situation for Jews.
    I was merely responding to your remarks in red above. Unless you admit in hindsight that it was an error, otherwise, your position is clearly that of concern that growth in the number Christian Jews will negatively affect the Jewish state - Judaism, perhaps? This contradicts your long standing hope of Israel becoming a Christian nation.

  8. #608
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    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I was merely responding to your remarks in red above. Unless you admit in hindsight that it was an error, otherwise, your position is clearly that of concern that growth in the number Christian Jews will negatively affect the Jewish state - Judaism, perhaps? This contradicts your long standing hope of Israel becoming a Christian nation.
    This Forum has serious issues! Many of our posts are coming out double! And we can't correct them! I wouldn't know how to fix anything like this, short of saving and rebooting the whole program.

    Anyway, you're right that I'm in favor of *every nation on earth,* including Israel, becoming a Christian state. I was merely commenting on *how Israel looks* at the problem of absorbing Muslim refugees, as well as Christian refugees. This is how *they look at it,* and not how *I look at it.* I'm strictly analyzing why they believe as they do.

    But I was, in fact, agreeing with part of it--the part where they should *not* invite Muslim refugees back into their country, when the Muslims would gain a majority in the politics of the country, elect Muslim leaders, and eventually legislate against Jews, which is what all Muslim countries do.

    Christians, of the liberal stripe, would do the same thing, though in different ways. Liberal Christians tend to favor Muslim rights over Jewish rights. Too many liberal Christians in Israel, and the politicians thus elected would support greater refugee acceptance. And the result would be the same as above. Eventually Islamic voters would vote out Judaism, as well as conventional Christianity.

    Israel is also afraid of evangelical Christians because many of them are liberal socially, and will accept all kinds of moral compromise--just not compromise with Christianity, which is in their doctrine a very narrow religion. It would discourage the practice of Judaism. And since they identify "Jew" with the religion of Judaism, they believe they would lose their identity as a religiously-Jewish nation.

    And they're right. conservative Christianity would end the Jewish religion. But it would *not* end Jewish ethnicity, in my view. The Jews would still be Jewish as a racial group. It's just that the Jewish people have been so dispersed internationally that it is thought by them that only their religion holds their common identity together.

    But that is no longer a problem with the nation-state coming back into existence, and holding them together as common citizens of Israel. They are "Jews" by virtue of their common association with the Jewish state. It just doesn't need Judaism anymore.

    Do the British require complete homogenization of ethnic groups in order to have a British ethnicity? No. The British ethnicity is defined by a blend of different racial groups, who after time, do become a single ethnicity. The British ethnicity is defined by the language and customs of the nation. The racial blending follows.

    In the case of the Jews, their dispersion among the nations risked their fragmentation into a multitude of different national cultures. It was only the values imposed by their religious values that kept them identified as Jewish. But now that they have a nation-state, they will obtain their ethnicity from the nation itself, no matter what religion it adopts. Being a "Jew" can mean being either a Jew in Judaism or a Jew in the sense of a Messianic Jew.

    I'm glad you asked the question, because the answer is somewhat complicated!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I was merely responding to your remarks in red above. Unless you admit in hindsight that it was an error, otherwise, your position is clearly that of concern that growth in the number Christian Jews will negatively affect the Jewish state - Judaism, perhaps? This contradicts your long standing hope of Israel becoming a Christian nation.
    This Forum has serious issues! Many of our posts are coming out double! And we can't correct them! I wouldn't know how to fix anything like this, short of saving and rebooting the whole program.

    Anyway, you're right that I'm in favor of *every nation on earth,* including Israel, becoming a Christian state. I was merely commenting on *how Israel looks* at the problem of absorbing Muslim refugees, as well as Christian refugees. This is how *they look at it,* and not how *I look at it.* I'm strictly analyzing why they believe as they do.

    But I was, in fact, agreeing with part of it--the part where they should *not* invite Muslim refugees back into their country, when the Muslims would gain a majority in the politics of the country, elect Muslim leaders, and eventually legislate against Jews, which is what all Muslim countries do.

    Christians, of the liberal stripe, would do the same thing, though in different ways. Liberal Christians tend to favor Muslim rights over Jewish rights. Too many liberal Christians in Israel, and the politicians thus elected would support greater refugee acceptance. And the result would be the same as above. Eventually Islamic voters would vote out Judaism, as well as conventional Christianity.

    Israel is also afraid of evangelical Christians because many of them are liberal socially, and will accept all kinds of moral compromise--just not compromise with Christianity, which is in their doctrine a very narrow religion. It would discourage the practice of Judaism. And since they identify "Jew" with the religion of Judaism, they believe they would lose their identity as a religiously-Jewish nation.

    And they're right. conservative Christianity would end the Jewish religion. But it would *not* end Jewish ethnicity, in my view. The Jews would still be Jewish as a racial group. It's just that the Jewish people have been so dispersed internationally that it is thought by them that only their religion holds their common identity together.

    But that is no longer a problem with the nation-state coming back into existence, and holding them together as common citizens of Israel. They are "Jews" by virtue of their common association with the Jewish state. It just doesn't need Judaism anymore.

    Do the British require complete homogenization of ethnic groups in order to have a British ethnicity? No. The British ethnicity is defined by a blend of different racial groups, who after time, do become a single ethnicity. The British ethnicity is defined by the language and customs of the nation. The racial blending follows.

    In the case of the Jews, their dispersion among the nations risked their fragmentation into a multitude of different national cultures. It was only the values imposed by their religious values that kept them identified as Jewish. But now that they have a nation-state, they will obtain their ethnicity from the nation itself, no matter what religion it adopts. Being a "Jew" can mean being either a Jew in Judaism or a Jew in the sense of a Messianic Jew.

    I'm glad you asked the question, because the answer is somewhat complicated!

  9. #609
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    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I was merely responding to your remarks in red above. Unless you admit in hindsight that it was an error, otherwise, your position is clearly that of concern that growth in the number Christian Jews will negatively affect the Jewish state - Judaism, perhaps? This contradicts your long standing hope of Israel becoming a Christian nation.
    This Forum has serious issues! Many of our posts are coming out double! And we can't correct them! I wouldn't know how to fix anything like this, short of saving and rebooting the whole program.

    Anyway, you're right that I'm in favor of *every nation on earth,* including Israel, becoming a Christian state. I was merely commenting on *how Israel looks* at the problem of absorbing Muslim refugees, as well as Christian refugees. This is how *they look at it,* and not how *I look at it.* I'm strictly analyzing why they believe as they do.

    But I was, in fact, agreeing with part of it--the part where they should *not* invite Muslim refugees back into their country, when the Muslims would gain a majority in the politics of the country, elect Muslim leaders, and eventually legislate against Jews, which is what all Muslim countries do.

    Christians, of the liberal stripe, would do the same thing, though in different ways. Liberal Christians tend to favor Muslim rights over Jewish rights. Too many liberal Christians in Israel, and the politicians thus elected would support greater refugee acceptance. And the result would be the same as above. Eventually Islamic voters would vote out Judaism, as well as conventional Christianity.

    Israel is also afraid of evangelical Christians because many of them are liberal socially, and will accept all kinds of moral compromise--just not compromise with Christianity, which is in their doctrine a very narrow religion. It would discourage the practice of Judaism. And since they identify "Jew" with the religion of Judaism, they believe they would lose their identity as a religiously-Jewish nation.

    And they're right. conservative Christianity would end the Jewish religion. But it would *not* end Jewish ethnicity, in my view. The Jews would still be Jewish as a racial group. It's just that the Jewish people have been so dispersed internationally that it is thought by them that only their religion holds their common identity together.

    But that is no longer a problem with the nation-state coming back into existence, and holding them together as common citizens of Israel. They are "Jews" by virtue of their common association with the Jewish state. It just doesn't need Judaism anymore.

    Do the British require complete homogenization of ethnic groups in order to have a British ethnicity? No. The British ethnicity is defined by a blend of different racial groups, who after time, do become a single ethnicity. The British ethnicity is defined by the language and customs of the nation. The racial blending follows.

    In the case of the Jews, their dispersion among the nations risked their fragmentation into a multitude of different national cultures. It was only the values imposed by their religious values that kept them identified as Jewish. But now that they have a nation-state, they will obtain their ethnicity from the nation itself, no matter what religion it adopts. Being a "Jew" can mean being either a Jew in Judaism or a Jew in the sense of a Messianic Jew.

    I'm glad you asked the question, because the answer is somewhat complicated!

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    Re: Has the Great Tribulation started or is it still in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    This Forum has serious issues! Many of our posts are coming out double! And we can't correct them! I wouldn't know how to fix anything like this, short of saving and rebooting the whole program.

    Anyway, you're right that I'm in favor of *every nation on earth,* including Israel, becoming a Christian state. I was merely commenting on *how Israel looks* at the problem of absorbing Muslim refugees, as well as Christian refugees. This is how *they look at it,* and not how *I look at it.* I'm strictly analyzing why they believe as they do.

    But I was, in fact, agreeing with part of it--the part where they should *not* invite Muslim refugees back into their country, when the Muslims would gain a majority in the politics of the country, elect Muslim leaders, and eventually legislate against Jews, which is what all Muslim countries do.

    Christians, of the liberal stripe, would do the same thing, though in different ways. Liberal Christians tend to favor Muslim rights over Jewish rights. Too many liberal Christians in Israel, and the politicians thus elected would support greater refugee acceptance. And the result would be the same as above. Eventually Islamic voters would vote out Judaism, as well as conventional Christianity.

    Israel is also afraid of evangelical Christians because many of them are liberal socially, and will accept all kinds of moral compromise--just not compromise with Christianity, which is in their doctrine a very narrow religion. It would discourage the practice of Judaism. And since they identify "Jew" with the religion of Judaism, they believe they would lose their identity as a religiously-Jewish nation.

    And they're right. conservative Christianity would end the Jewish religion. But it would *not* end Jewish ethnicity, in my view. The Jews would still be Jewish as a racial group. It's just that the Jewish people have been so dispersed internationally that it is thought by them that only their religion holds their common identity together.

    But that is no longer a problem with the nation-state coming back into existence, and holding them together as common citizens of Israel. They are "Jews" by virtue of their common association with the Jewish state. It just doesn't need Judaism anymore.

    Do the British require complete homogenization of ethnic groups in order to have a British ethnicity? No. The British ethnicity is defined by a blend of different racial groups, who after time, do become a single ethnicity. The British ethnicity is defined by the language and customs of the nation. The racial blending follows.

    In the case of the Jews, their dispersion among the nations risked their fragmentation into a multitude of different national cultures. It was only the values imposed by their religious values that kept them identified as Jewish. But now that they have a nation-state, they will obtain their ethnicity from the nation itself, no matter what religion it adopts. Being a "Jew" can mean being either a Jew in Judaism or a Jew in the sense of a Messianic Jew.

    I'm glad you asked the question, because the answer is somewhat complicated!
    Hopefully the MOD are working hard as ever to fix it.

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    This Forum has serious issues! Many of our posts are coming out double! And we can't correct them! I wouldn't know how to fix anything like this, short of saving and rebooting the whole program.

    Anyway, you're right that I'm in favor of *every nation on earth,* including Israel, becoming a Christian state. I was merely commenting on *how Israel looks* at the problem of absorbing Muslim refugees, as well as Christian refugees. This is how *they look at it,* and not how *I look at it.* I'm strictly analyzing why they believe as they do.

    But I was, in fact, agreeing with part of it--the part where they should *not* invite Muslim refugees back into their country, when the Muslims would gain a majority in the politics of the country, elect Muslim leaders, and eventually legislate against Jews, which is what all Muslim countries do.

    Christians, of the liberal stripe, would do the same thing, though in different ways. Liberal Christians tend to favor Muslim rights over Jewish rights. Too many liberal Christians in Israel, and the politicians thus elected would support greater refugee acceptance. And the result would be the same as above. Eventually Islamic voters would vote out Judaism, as well as conventional Christianity.

    Israel is also afraid of evangelical Christians because many of them are liberal socially, and will accept all kinds of moral compromise--just not compromise with Christianity, which is in their doctrine a very narrow religion. It would discourage the practice of Judaism. And since they identify "Jew" with the religion of Judaism, they believe they would lose their identity as a religiously-Jewish nation.

    And they're right. conservative Christianity would end the Jewish religion. But it would *not* end Jewish ethnicity, in my view. The Jews would still be Jewish as a racial group. It's just that the Jewish people have been so dispersed internationally that it is thought by them that only their religion holds their common identity together.

    But that is no longer a problem with the nation-state coming back into existence, and holding them together as common citizens of Israel. They are "Jews" by virtue of their common association with the Jewish state. It just doesn't need Judaism anymore.

    Do the British require complete homogenization of ethnic groups in order to have a British ethnicity? No. The British ethnicity is defined by a blend of different racial groups, who after time, do become a single ethnicity. The British ethnicity is defined by the language and customs of the nation. The racial blending follows.

    In the case of the Jews, their dispersion among the nations risked their fragmentation into a multitude of different national cultures. It was only the values imposed by their religious values that kept them identified as Jewish. But now that they have a nation-state, they will obtain their ethnicity from the nation itself, no matter what religion it adopts. Being a "Jew" can mean being either a Jew in Judaism or a Jew in the sense of a Messianic Jew.

    I'm glad you asked the question, because the answer is somewhat complicated!
    Hopefully the MOD are working hard as ever to fix it.

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