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Thread: The Saving Faith

  1. #61
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Not at all. I believe Spirit Filled works is both a proof of salvation and an important determinant of our eternal salvation. I believe that if saved people do not bear Spirit filled fruits, they will be discarded.

    The words of Lord Jesus which says "Many shall say to me on that day, Lord, did we not prophecy and do miracles in your name, etc... but I will say to them depart from me you workers of iniquity, I know you not" (paraphrasing)

    And also "Not everyone who call me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of God".

    Then about the ten Virgins(all believers) but some will be denied access for not having oil.

    Do you actually ponder on these scriptures, or do we pretend they don't exist, or all together take them out of the scriptures to align with the OSAS doctrine?
    This clarifies things a bit. While I believe you are taking this to the extreme , I see where you are with it.

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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Are you accusing me of not being a redeemed Christian? Why? Because I disageee with your doctrine?
    Not at all. I am not and never accusing you of not being a redeemed christian. Who am I to say that? That is far beyond my Jurisdiction. It is only God that knows who is who. My target is solely on doctrines. I am only interested in doctrines not the carrier of the doctrine. As far as I am concerned, we are all brothers in the Lord.

    I was only proactively asserting, you won't prefer we follow your words (That is, "forget the works") instead of the passionate desire of God that we bear fruit so we can be pruned of the father, cos the father discards the branches that bears no fruit. My only earnestness here, is valid, holistic and balanced scriptural doctrine. Not the half sided ones we have proliferated everywhere...
    We must preach and teach that which becomes scripturally wholesome doctrine.
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

  3. #63
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Not at all. I am not and never accusing you of not being a redeemed christian. Who am I to say that? That is far beyond my Jurisdiction. It is only God that knows who is who. My target is solely on doctrines. I am only interested in doctrines not the carrier of the doctrine. As far as I am concerned, we are all brothers in the Lord.

    I was only proactively asserting, you won't prefer we follow your words (That is, "forget the works") instead of the passionate desire of God that we bear fruit so we can be pruned of the father, cos the father discards the branches that bears no fruit. My only earnestness here, is valid, holistic and balanced scriptural doctrine. Not the half sided ones we have proliferated everywhere...
    We must preach and teach that which becomes scripturally wholesome doctrine.
    Emekrus, I agree and most likely everyone else here will agree, that a non-fruit bearing "Christian" is in name alone. But see , here is the issue when we look at things impersonally. The same blanket it appeared you threw onto Keck is the same one perceived by those who need edification. You are right in that the scripture says what it says... but what is "fruit" in an undiscipled , young believers life ? Simply loving God and walking humbly ? Is it the conviction of the Holy Spirit when they fail ? Look at not only the words of scripture , but the examples of people whom we know are redeemed , and then look at their mistakes. There were some messed up folks in the bible but God used then and loved them. Did they change ? YES !!!! But it took TIME... That's the thing. We cannot gauge the rate of sanctification in someone's life. Only God can.

    Look at Peter ( after conversion) .. He still held on the racial prejudice.
    David...
    Samson...
    Abraham...
    And pretty much everyone else in scripture. If you were to take a snapshot of them at their lowest it would be easy to jump to conclusion.

  4. #64
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Emekrus, I agree and most likely everyone else here will agree, that a non-fruit bearing "Christian" is in name alone. But see , here is the issue when we look at things impersonally. The same blanket it appeared you threw onto Keck is the same one perceived by those who need edification. You are right in that the scripture says what it says... but what is "fruit" in an undiscipled , young believers life ? Simply loving God and walking humbly ? Is it the conviction of the Holy Spirit when they fail ? Look at not only the words of scripture , but the examples of people whom we know are redeemed , and then look at their mistakes. There were some messed up folks in the bible but God used then and loved them. Did they change ? YES !!!! But it took TIME... That's the thing. We cannot gauge the rate of sanctification in someone's life. Only God can.

    Look at Peter ( after conversion) .. He still held on the racial prejudice.
    David...
    Samson...
    Abraham...
    And pretty much everyone else in scripture. If you were to take a snapshot of them at their lowest it would be easy to jump to conclusion.
    The difference is that the saints you mentioned above, at least realised they were wrong when people or God rebuked them. But the problem these days is that no one wants to hear anything about being wrong. After all, knowing and acknowledging they have missed it and need repentance, is for the 'works believers'...

    After all, all their sins: past present and future has already been forgiven. Where then will the godly sorrow that leads to repentance unto salvation come from?

    This is the problem as I have earlier mentioned in this thread. The problem is not that of discipleship but that of wrong indoctrination and discipleship.

    And this is where my earnestness lie. I am not in anyway writing anyone off. But rather diligently pressing for quick change in people's life.

    The Lord have personally told me long ago "That if I miss heaven by 1% I will make hell by 100%". This impression remains very fresh in my heart till date; just as it was the day the Lord spoke to me expressly. Thus, my fervor.

    N.B I made a mistake with the first figure...
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

  5. #65
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Not at all. I am not and never accusing you of not being a redeemed christian. Who am I to say that? That is far beyond my Jurisdiction. It is only God that knows who is who. My target is solely on doctrines. I am only interested in doctrines not the carrier of the doctrine. As far as I am concerned, we are all brothers in the Lord.
    If I obey Jesus, what is it to you How He directs me? The fruit of obedience to Him is vastly superior than obeying men. My doctrine is to obey Jesus, not religion. Is that offensive to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    I was only proactively asserting, you won't prefer we follow your words (That is, "forget the works") instead of the passionate desire of God that we bear fruit so we can be pruned of the father, cos the father discards the branches that bears no fruit. My only earnestness here, is valid, holistic and balanced scriptural doctrine. Not the half sided ones we have proliferated everywhere...
    We must preach and teach that which becomes scripturally wholesome doctrine.
    Any works that come from me that have any value whatsoever to the Kingdom of God are directed by Jesus, and confirmed by the Word of God - not by doctrines of men.

    Does that mean I can't act out of my own compassion or my own intellect? Of course not. But I do not conflate those actions with obedience to Christ. Furthermore I do not write my name on anything I do for the Kingdom. They belong to God, not me. There is no profit in stealing from God.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  6. #66
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    I am not in anyway writing anyone off. But rather diligently pressing for quick change in people's life.

    The Lord have personally told me long ago "That if I miss heaven by 1% I will make hell by 90%". This impression remains very fresh in my heart till date; just as it was the day the Lord spoke to me expressly. Thus, my fervor.
    "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God[ may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

    Paul doesn't leave room for anyone to add to Scripture to better equip themselves for every good work.

    If you write down what the Lord has "personally told you" (as you just did) outside of Scripture Canon, you are writing Scripture that has the exact same authority as the Bible. Are you making that claim you have the authority to add to Scripture?

    In regards to convicting the world, do you claim you are better at this than the Holy Spirit?
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  7. #67
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God[ may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

    Paul doesn't leave room for anyone to add to Scripture to better equip themselves for every good work.

    If you write down what the Lord has "personally told you" (as you just did) outside of Scripture Canon, you are writing Scripture that has the exact same authority as the Bible. Are you making that claim you have the authority to add to Scripture?

    In regards to convicting the world, do you claim you are better at this than the Holy Spirit?
    I never said my revelation should be added to scripture. Neither did I suggest in anyway that I have the power to convict the world.Please read that post again with an open mind, and you'll get my exact words.

    But however, the Holy Spirit does convict the world with wholesome doctrines. The Apostle Paul did say so in the book of Romans. People cannot hear except through preachers.
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

  8. #68
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    If I obey Jesus, what is it to you How He directs me? The fruit of obedience to Him is vastly superior than obeying men. My doctrine is to obey Jesus, not religion. Is that offensive to you?



    Any works that come from me that have any value whatsoever to the Kingdom of God are directed by Jesus, and confirmed by the Word of God - not by doctrines of men.

    Does that mean I can't act out of my own compassion or my own intellect? Of course not. But I do not conflate those actions with obedience to Christ. Furthermore I do not write my name on anything I do for the Kingdom. They belong to God, not me. There is no profit in stealing from God.
    No one is saying you should obey men. Rather, I am saying we should obey God and scriptures. And talking about religion the Bible is in full support of true and pure religion. Saint James talked about that.

    Then about stealing from God, I know you mean stealing his glory. But I tell you the truth we can mention our works and at the same time give him all the glory like the Apostle Paul did. Here is exactly his words from scriptures:


    10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

    From the above scripture, we see the Apostle Paul mentioning his works(please consider the word 'I') and at the same time giving all the glory to God. He didn't steal from God here...
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

  9. #69
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    I never said my revelation should be added to scripture. Neither did I suggest in anyway that I have the power to convict the world.Please read that post again with an open mind, and you'll get my exact words.
    Ok, I read your exact words again. And again, when you make a claim that is outside of Biblical Canon, why should the rest of us trust it's from God? Because you said so? If God wants you to be His messenger, He will send you where He wants you to go. Like Phillip.

    Or maybe God has you where you are right now for His purposes. Ever consider that?
    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    But however, the Holy Spirit does convict the world with wholesome doctrines. The Apostle Paul did say so in the book of Romans. People cannot hear except through preachers.
    "Faith comes through hearing and hearing by the Word of God," not the words of preachers. That's what it says.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  10. #70
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    No one is saying you should obey men. Rather, I am saying we should obey God and scriptures. And talking about religion the Bible is in full support of true and pure religion. Saint James talked about that.
    I strive to obey God and His Word with every breath I take. Yes, His Word is alive and active in my soul, but that doesn't give me license to add to it. Sometimes what He is trying to teach me through the same passage is different because of my circumstances.

    So if James says true religion is feeding the hungry and looking after the widows, how is wasting $54 million dollars for a jet going to accomplish that?
    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Then about stealing from God, I know you mean stealing his glory. But I tell you the truth we can mention our works and at the same time give him all the glory like the Apostle Paul did. Here is exactly his words from scriptures:


    10 [FONT="]But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: [/FONT][FONT="]yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me[/FONT][FONT="].

    [/FONT]
    From the above scripture, we see the Apostle Paul mentioning his works(please consider the word 'I') and at the same time giving all the glory to God. He didn't steal from God here...
    This has nothing to do with his works, but his labor to abide in Christ, given the headstrong personality he had. Surely you understand the context?
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  11. #71
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    The difference is that the saints you mentioned above, at least realised they were wrong when people or God rebuked them. But the problem these days is that no one wants to hear anything about being wrong. After all, knowing and acknowledging they have missed it and need repentance, is for the 'works believers'...

    After all, all their sins: past present and future has already been forgiven. Where then will the godly sorrow that leads to repentance unto salvation come from?

    This is the problem as I have earlier mentioned in this thread. The problem is not that of discipleship but that of wrong indoctrination and discipleship.

    And this is where my earnestness lie. I am not in anyway writing anyone off. But rather diligently pressing for quick change in people's life.

    The Lord have personally told me long ago "That if I miss heaven by 1% I will make hell by 100%". This impression remains very fresh in my heart till date; just as it was the day the Lord spoke to me expressly. Thus, my fervor.

    N.B I made a mistake with the first figure...
    We are closer than you realize. But your assumption that people who teach that faith and repentance alone produce justification somehow produces weak Christians who are fundamentally unsound is just not so. Why ? Because faith and repentance are all that produce justification. Correct discipleship and the sanctification that come from it will inevitably happen in due course if done correctly. The teaching that the fruit of the Holy Spirit WILL happen in a follower of Christ's life is included in this discipleship. Also teaching them what to do right is paramount. How to pray, how to develop a time of devotion, helping them unlock their spiritual gifts , etc. When we focus on this and show them HOW to produce the fruit of the Spirit , and what the fruit of the Spirit even IS, we are making disciples. NOT when we say " you aren't producing enough, so you are condemned". We don't get to decide where that line is brother.

  12. #72
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    We are closer than you realize. But your assumption that people who teach that faith and repentance alone produce justification somehow produces weak Christians who are fundamentally unsound is just not so. Why ? Because faith and repentance are all that produce justification. Correct discipleship and the sanctification that come from it will inevitably happen in due course if done correctly. The teaching that the fruit of the Holy Spirit WILL happen in a follower of Christ's life is included in this discipleship. Also teaching them what to do right is paramount. How to pray, how to develop a time of devotion, helping them unlock their spiritual gifts , etc. When we focus on this and show them HOW to produce the fruit of the Spirit , and what the fruit of the Spirit even IS, we are making disciples. NOT when we say " you aren't producing enough, so you are condemned". We don't get to decide where that line is brother.
    Great way to put it! The line is crossed when Christians are coerced, guilted or condemned to produce "the fruits of the Spirit" by their own efforts - this will ALWAYS wind up in abject failure, defeat, disappointment and doubt. I just do not understand why God's people aren't allowed to listen to the Spirit and abide with Him AS GOD SEES FIT. God isn't a "one size fits all" God. Why can't some Christian leaders just stay out of God's way?

    Anytime a man puts himself above his brethren is a marker for religion and death of any assembly of God. As Jesus would say:

    "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' because you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers and sisters."
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Ok, I read your exact words again. And again, when you make a claim that is outside of Biblical Canon, why should the rest of us trust it's from God? Because you said so? If God wants you to be His messenger, He will send you where He wants you to go. Like Phillip.

    Or maybe God has you where you are right now for His purposes. Ever consider that?


    "Faith comes through hearing and hearing by the Word of God," not the words of preachers. That's what it says.
    Of course, I am where God wants me to be in the interim. But at the same time, I know he wants me to go more than where I am.

    Then concerning faith coming by hearing below is the preceding verse you didn't mention:

    How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:14)

    please check if that verse is also in your own bible.
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

  14. #74
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    I strive to obey God and His Word with every breath I take. Yes, His Word is alive and active in my soul, but that doesn't give me license to add to it. Sometimes what He is trying to teach me through the same passage is different because of my circumstances.

    So if James says true religion is feeding the hungry and looking after the widows, how is wasting $54 million dollars for a jet going to accomplish that?


    This has nothing to do with his works, but his labor to abide in Christ, given the headstrong personality he had. Surely you understand the context?
    Why strive with words to no avail? What you refer to as 'his labor to abide in Christ' is exactly the same work I am referring to which I am sure you are aware of.

    Then as for the Jet issue, we are already discussing that at another thread. Post to the appropriate thread, and you're guaranteed to get a feedback from me.
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

  15. #75
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    We are closer than you realize. But your assumption that people who teach that faith and repentance alone produce justification somehow produces weak Christians who are fundamentally unsound is just not so. Why ? Because faith and repentance are all that produce justification. Correct discipleship and the sanctification that come from it will inevitably happen in due course if done correctly. The teaching that the fruit of the Holy Spirit WILL happen in a follower of Christ's life is included in this discipleship. Also teaching them what to do right is paramount. How to pray, how to develop a time of devotion, helping them unlock their spiritual gifts , etc. When we focus on this and show them HOW to produce the fruit of the Spirit , and what the fruit of the Spirit even IS, we are making disciples. NOT when we say " you aren't producing enough, so you are condemned". We don't get to decide where that line is brother.

    No we don't say "you aren't producing enough, so you are condemned" rather we say if "If you don't bear fruit meant for repentance, you'll be discarded".

    After all, Jesus said so himself.check John 15.
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

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