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Thread: The Saving Faith

  1. #76
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    No we don't say "you aren't producing enough, so you are condemned" rather we say if "If you don't bear fruit meant for repentance, you'll be discarded".

    After all, Jesus said so himself.check John 15.
    Fruit comes from the SPIRIT already at work in a believer. It's inevitable. Like I said earlier, we are closer than we think.

  2. #77
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Of course, I am where God wants me to be in the interim. But at the same time, I know he wants me to go more than where I am.

    Then concerning faith coming by hearing below is the preceding verse you didn't mention:

    How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:14)

    please check if that verse is also in your own bible.
    In case you haven’t checked lately, Bibles were rare and expensive at that time.

    And preachers willingly already travel all over the world, on foot or in a canoe if necessary to preach the Word.

    Do you claim to be better than them by demanding to go first class?

  3. #78
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Why strive with words to no avail? What you refer to as 'his labor to abide in Christ' is exactly the same work I am referring to which I am sure you are aware of.

    Then as for the Jet issue, we are already discussing that at another thread. Post to the appropriate thread, and you're guaranteed to get a feedback from me.
    I will post it here since you reference the desire to travel first class to provide the “sound doctrine” of material wealth to the vulnerable

  4. #79
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    No we don't say "you aren't producing enough, so you are condemned" rather we say if "If you don't bear fruit meant for repentance, you'll be discarded".

    After all, Jesus said so himself.check John 15.
    John makes “if” “then” Logic statements. Anyone who abides in Jesus will produce fruit; it is an outflow of obedience to Him, but at GOD’s pleasure, not by your expectations or demands.

  5. #80

    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    I will post it here since you reference the desire to travel first class to provide the “sound doctrine” of material wealth to the vulnerable
    Any thing I post or teach, I make sure it is scripturally wholesome so I am not in anyway challenged by any rebutaal. But I want us to go to the appropriate thread, after all you were one of those that actually contended I move the thread to controversial forum, remember? Just get on topic and I am very ready to answer every of your reply.
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

  6. #81

    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    John makes “if” “then” Logic statements. Anyone who abides in Jesus will produce fruit; it is an outflow of obedience to Him, but at GOD’s pleasure, not by your expectations or demands.
    And that's the challenge; many are not abiding in Christ.If they are, how come they remain at same level even after many years of being in church

    So we are only faithfully doing our part by preaching to them to abide in him as he abides in them, so they can produce fruits.

    And we are not demand them to do anything as you misunderstand
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

  7. #82
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    And that's the challenge; many are not abiding in Christ.If they are, how come they remain at same level even after many years of being in church
    Can you define what, "remain at the same level" means? Thanks
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  8. #83
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Any thing I post or teach, I make sure it is scripturally wholesome so I am not in anyway challenged by any rebutaal. But I want us to go to the appropriate thread, after all you were one of those that actually contended I move the thread to controversial forum, remember? Just get on topic and I am very ready to answer every of your reply.
    None but Christ are correct all the time bro. NONE

  9. #84
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    Any thing I post or teach, I make sure it is scripturally wholesome so I am not in anyway challenged by any rebutaal. But I want us to go to the appropriate thread, after all you were one of those that actually contended I move the thread to controversial forum, remember? Just get on topic and I am very ready to answer every of your reply.
    So first of all none of us have it down 100%. What may be right in your mind is not necessarily right in God's sight.

    ALL of us have the Holy Spirit to lead us to the truth in HIS WORD, so in that regard we are all equal. You don't get any special revelation from God any more than the rest of us Emekrus. All Scripture is profitable for every good work; that means nothing outside of Scripture is necessary. That means what we add to Scripture is not profitable for every good work. It's a very simple logic statement. Furthermore, we are to study with sober minds. Do you know what a sober mind is?

    Most theologians (for example Grudem) call out the prosperity doctrine and faith + works doctrine as false doctrine, so what makes you right and most everyone wrong?

    Secondly, regarding John - John doesn't write anything conditional. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I read John and how I am reading you (paraphrased):

    John: A Christian who abides in Christ does the works of God.
    You: If a Christian does good works, that Christian will be rewarded by God with riches.

    John: A Christian who abides in Christ does the works of God.
    You: If a Christian doesn't do good works as I expect them to, Jesus will spew them out.

    Do you see the difference?
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  10. #85
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    And that's the challenge; many are not abiding in Christ.
    You don't know them that intimately. And you don't get to judge their sanctification either. You don't know what God's doing with them in His longsuffering and lovingkindness. Only God gets that privilege. From my experience, Christians who are not victorious fail because they are deceived by false doctrines of material wealth, wonderful marriages, perfect health and fake healings. And when bad things happen to them, they are condemned for "lack of faith."

    That's crap.

    Bad things happen to Christians. Their marriages fail, their businesses fail, they get sick, they get injured and they get attacked, raped and murdered, just like anyone else.

    Stop promising false hope, stop the guilt trip, stop judging the faith of God's people and teach the truth of Scripture and you will see more Christians abiding in Christ. And they will be following HIM, not some preacher, as it should be. But that curls some people's toes, because following Jesus may mean someone may not get their shiny new $54 million dollar toy, so like any immature adolescent the attack God's people for "lack of faith."

    I've been on this merry-go-round a few times, so don't tell me any different.

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    If they are, how come they remain at same level even after many years of being in church
    Level? Jesus said all are brothers and sisters. Level? Who are you to judge 'levels?' That's God's work through the CORRECT teaching of His Word.

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    So we are only faithfully doing our part by preaching to them to abide in him as he abides in them, so they can produce fruits.
    And we are not demand them to do anything as you misunderstand
    Fear, guilt and empty promises is not discipleship. It's making someone for fit for hell than they were before.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  11. #86

    Re: The Saving Faith

    You know brethren,

    Like I told a friend who was also arguing this issue with me. The proof of true doctrine is in the fruit produced in the members. I have seen members who belong to the "it doesn't matter group of teachers" and then I have also seen members who belong to the "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling ministries" and I tell you one bears better spiritual fruit than the other and that of course is the second group.

    How do I know, very simple: by their fruits we shall know them... the Lord Jesus revealed.
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

  12. #87

    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Can you define what, "remain at the same level" means? Thanks
    Well, remaining at the same level means remaining at the same level of spiritual growth. Especially concerning godliness. You know, when some still doesn't see anything wrong with fornication for instance and lack any form of penitence for reproachful sin, after being in Christ for years, it sure shows something is wrong somewhere.

    Wouldn't you agree?
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

  13. #88
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    You know brethren,

    Like I told a friend who was also arguing this issue with me. The proof of true doctrine is in the fruit produced in the members. I have seen members who belong to the "it doesn't matter group of teachers" and then I have also seen members who belong to the "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling ministries" and I tell you one bears better spiritual fruit than the other and that of course is the second group.

    How do I know, very simple: by their fruits we shall know them... the Lord Jesus revealed.
    And by your fruits they know you.

    By the way... no one here is of the "it doesn't matter" school of doctrine and for you to assume we are is very demeaning. Which in a nutshell is a hallmark of the "holier than though" school of doctrine.

    Honestly , I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how you can preach this and be in support of televangelist's buying 50 million dollar jets to avoid layovers. It is very contradictory. And my confusion is in no way an indicator that I just don't "get it" , or am not where you are spiritualy.

  14. #89

    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    And by your fruits they know you.

    By the way... no one here is of the "it doesn't matter" school of doctrine and for you to assume we are is very demeaning. Which in a nutshell is a hallmark of the "holier than though" school of doctrine.

    Honestly , I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how you can preach this and be in support of televangelist's buying 50 million dollar jets to avoid layovers. It is very contradictory. And my confusion is in no way an indicator that I just don't "get it" , or am not where you are spiritualy.
    It is not holier than thou attidude. To me, the doctrine that says you are just saved by faith, it doesn't matter your works can easily be summarised as the "it doesn't matter gospel".

    If you see it to be demeaning, well I don't mean so. Just expressing a honest opinion.

    Then about $50Million Jets you are talking about, why are you bringing it up here after the contention that such discussion doesn't fit here? We have a forum where we are already discussing that. We ought to be able to manage ourselves and follow due process. Especially when we are the ones that initialised it.

    Every question concerning my take on prosperity and the Jets issue, we are discussing at the appropriate thread.
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

  15. #90
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    Re: The Saving Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    You know brethren,

    Like I told a friend who was also arguing this issue with me. The proof of true doctrine is in the fruit produced in the members. I have seen members who belong to the "it doesn't matter group of teachers" and then I have also seen members who belong to the "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling ministries" and I tell you one bears better spiritual fruit than the other and that of course is the second group.
    In other words you would rather shame and guilt God's people into works that suit your judgmental perspective than see the true pure fruit of God working through His people. Are you a proponent of "fake works" then?
    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    How do I know, very simple: by their fruits we shall know them... the Lord Jesus revealed.
    Many "fruits" God's people bear are hidden from your sight, because, frankly, it's none of you business. Many give anomalously to people in need because Jesus told us not to boast of our giving, not to boast in our works and not to lord over others.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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