Page 54 of 75 FirstFirst ... 44344454647484950515253545556575859606162636465 ... LastLast
Results 796 to 810 of 1117

Thread: Who are the true Israelites

  1. #796
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,842
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by CFJ View Post
    To make a distinction between "sons" and "children", is nothing else that pure false doctrine.

    Can you expand on this please?
    You are using quite heavy words my friend, those who believe different aren't using nor promoting a false doctrine necessarily. Our translations make the difference harder to find yet it's there:

    Any man is from birth carnal, spiritually dead, not in communion with God, even those who have knowledge of Scripture as we can see from John 3:3 where the Lord says to Nicodemus a Pharisee Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God .

    John 1:12, 13 which says according to the Greek: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God . This is the regeneration or being born from above, we need this to really hear the words of God as seen in John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God Regeneration is needed to believe that Jesus is the Christ as is told us in 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God ... .

    So in this stage one is still nothing more than a child, a servant Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant (Greek: doulos = slave) ... , Gal. 4:1. Children of God are ... in bondage under the elements of the world , 4:3. That this is about Israel is apparent from v. 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the sonship (Greek: uihothesia) . This is the reason why Jesus came to Israel, being a Jew, under the Law.

    This is only the first stage on the road of salvation, Paul in his letters tries to educate those of the gospel already preached to Abraham. We know that Abraham was before the Law, and that there was made more then one promise. From the N.T. we know that Abraham looked for city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God , or the New Jerusalem. The old Jerusalem isn't build by God but by humans, Jews.

    The olive tree is symbol of Israels spiritual privileges, its oil served for the lamps of the candlestick, Exo. 27:20, 30:24, Lev. 24:2. It is particularly connected to the house of God. We read about the grafting on the olive tree in Romans, v. 11:17 says And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree . The Gentiles were to make Israel jealous But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you , this was — to stay in the symbolism — what was done with literal olive trees to make them set fruit. This however has nothing to do with the Law, the promise of it was from before that era. It is about faith, like we see in Hebrews Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen . Thus the grafting on the olive tree gives knowledge of the Scriptures, something only Israel had. The olive tree symbolizes the bearing of the words of God, Rom. 3:2.

    The promise of sonship was already promised to Abraham, yet also to be a great nation, singular. Sonship is from all nations, plural. Therefore God promised Abraham these things in Genesis. The Covenant of Circumcision, with Israel, and father of many nations. Not only literal nations of his offspring from Hagar and Keturah, but also a spiritual offspring, sons of God as we can see in Gal. 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ . The promise made to Abraham before the Law, sets free of that Law through faith. Rom 8:29 says For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren . A brother of the Son of God is a son of God.

    To become a son we have to believe more then a child, a child was still a sinner and was called to repent: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost Acts 2:38. There is not a trace of the justification by faith Paul preached. The only time the phrase remission of sins occurs in his letter is in Rom. 3:25. Paul sees on the righteousness of faith, For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith , Rom. 1:17. He speaks of the righteousness of faith, For the promise, that he should be the heir of the cosmos, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith . Being heir of the cosmos has nothing to do with the Law, the covenants nor the land. Because this is about sons. Abraham believed in the Lord (Jehovah or YHVH) and He counted it to him for righteousness, Gen, 15:6. Now we have to believe more, because more has been revealed. Now we must buried with Him into death, Rom. 6:4, be in Christ, Rom. 8:1. So yes there is a difference between children and sons.

    If one sees this, it is quite clear we — Gentiles — are not under the New Covenant. The covenants were made with the Jews or Israelite as Paul tells us in Rom. 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises . So sons are those who come to be righteous by faith, both Jews and Gentiles, because the promise is from before the giving of the Law, before the birth of Isaac.

    Aristarkos

  2. #797
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,656

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    If one sees this, it is quite clear we — Gentiles — are not under the New Covenant. The covenants were made with the Jews or Israelite as Paul tells us in Rom. 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises . So sons are those who come the be righteous by faith, both Jews and Gentiles because the promise is from before the giving of the Law, before the birth of Isaac.
    Paul would differ from you.

    Rom 9:24* Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?*

    We the called are the true Israelites to whom the promises and covenants (new) was made.

    Rom 9:4* Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;*
    Rom 9:6* Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:*
    Rom 9:7* Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.*
    Rom 9:8* That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.*

  3. #798
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,786
    Blog Entries
    49

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    The bible lists blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. God is blessing Israel, as you yourself admit. It seems logical to conclude that God approves of their behavior at this time.
    Good golly miss Molly.
    A cannot be A & not A at the same time.



  4. #799
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,842
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Paul would differ from you.

    Rom 9:24* Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?*

    We the called are the true Israelites to whom the promises and covenants (new) was made.

    Rom 9:4* Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;*
    Rom 9:6* Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:*
    Rom 9:7* Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.*
    Rom 9:8* That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.*
    It says exactly what I said, Paul would not differ. It's about Isaac here, the seed.

    Acts 7:8 And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs .

    Aristarkos

  5. #800
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,656

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    It says exactly what I said, Paul would not differ. It's about Isaac here, the seed.

    Acts 7:8 And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs .

    Aristarkos
    And what did this seed do?

    Act 7:51* Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.*
    Act 7:52* Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:*
    Act 7:53* Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.*

    This is what Jesus said about the seed.

    Joh 8:31* Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;*
    Joh 8:32* And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.*
    Joh 8:33* They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?*
    Joh 8:34* Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.*
    Joh 8:35* And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.*
    Joh 8:36* If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.*
    Joh 8:37* I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.*
    Joh 8:38* I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.*
    You Are of Your Father the Devil
    Joh 8:39* They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.*
    Joh 8:40* But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.*
    Joh 8:41* Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.*
    Joh 8:42* Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.*
    Joh 8:43* Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.*
    Joh 8:44* Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.*
    Joh 8:45* And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.*
    Joh 8:46* Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?*
    Joh 8:47* He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.*

  6. #801
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,842
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    And what did this seed do?

    Act 7:51* Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.*
    Act 7:52* Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:*
    Act 7:53* Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.*

    This is what Jesus said about the seed.

    [...]
    And what is it you're trying to say? God is a liar? He must be according to you because:

    Isa. 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob

    Isa. 44:1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen .

    Jer. 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished .

    You notice the house of Jacob ? O Jacob my servant ?

    Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

    Aristarkos

  7. #802
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,656

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    And what is it you're trying to say? God is a liar? He must be according to you because:

    Isa. 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob

    Isa. 44:1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen .

    Jer. 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished .

    You notice the house of Jacob ? O Jacob my servant ?

    Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

    Aristarkos
    All the promises are made true in Jesus.

  8. #803
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,842
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    All the promises are made true in Jesus.
    Precisely, read post #796 again and see which promise was made to you. You seem to forget that the one you call Jesus is the Jehovah of the O.T., and my quotes above are His words.

    Aristarkos

  9. #804
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,656

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Precisely, read post #796 again and see which promise was made to you. You seem to forget that the one you call Jesus is the Jehovah of the O.T., and my quotes above are His words.

    Aristarkos
    In Jesus we are one. Why are you still separating that which God has joined?

  10. #805
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,842
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    In Jesus we are one. Why are you still separating that which God has joined?
    We are not one in Jesus, if you are a son, we are in Christ. Why are you joining what God has separated?

    Aristarkos

  11. #806
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,656

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    We are not one in Jesus, if you are a son, we are in Christ. Why are you joining what God has separated?

    Aristarkos
    Gal 3:28* There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.*
    Gal 3:29* And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.*

    You really have a misguided theology.

  12. #807
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,842
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Gal 3:28* There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.*
    Gal 3:29* And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.*

    You really have a misguided theology.
    Yes, they are sons, not children see post #796.

    Aristarkos

  13. #808
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,656

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Yes, they are sons, not children see post #796.

    Aristarkos
    You are either a son of God or a son of the devil. See post #800.

  14. #809
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,842
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    You are either a son of God or a son of the devil. See post #800.
    C'mon bro, be serious. You want something that God is not giving in His Scripture. We are not talking about the devil but about children and sons of God. You want to be under the New Covenant which God has made with Israel. You can be a son, but you deny this. Why?

    Aristarkos

  15. #810
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,656

    Re: Who are the true Israelites

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    C'mon bro, be serious. You want something that God is not giving in His Scripture. We are not talking about the devil but about children and sons of God. You want to be under the New Covenant which God has made with Israel. You can be a son, but you deny this. Why?

    Aristarkos
    I am part of the new covenant for which Christ's blood flowed.

    1Co 11:25 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup and said, "This cup is God's new covenant, sealed with my blood. Whenever you drink it, do so in memory of me."

    Children of God are sons of God. Children of Abraham could be sons of God or sons of the devil.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Black Hebrew Israelites
    By reformedct in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Oct 14th 2012, 06:14 PM
  2. Israelites and Edomites
    By gringo300 in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Sep 12th 2011, 05:38 PM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: Feb 4th 2011, 02:36 AM
  4. Were the Israelites Evil?
    By TheAnswer99 in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: Feb 10th 2009, 05:03 PM
  5. Did God make the Israelites not believe?
    By reformedct in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Feb 10th 2009, 01:48 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •