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Thread: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

  1. #16
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    keck533,
    re: "OK, I'm thoroughly confused."

    So am I. I don't see how your comment in your post #2 shows examples of instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime and/or no part of the night time could have occurred.

  2. #17

    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    5. To account for the lack of a 3rd night, some of those mentioned above say that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language.

    6. I wonder if anyone who falls in that group of believers could provide examples to support that belief; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime and/or no part of the night time could have occurred?
    I did a quick search of "days" and "nights" in the Bible. The number of days ALWAYS matches the number of nights.

    3 days and 3 nights (1 Sam. 30:12; Jonah 1:17; Matt. 12:40)
    7 days and 7 nights (Job. 2:13)
    40 days and 40 nights (Gen. 7:4, 12; Exod. 24:18; 34:28; Deut. 9:9, 11, 18, 25; 10:10; 1 Kings 19:8; Matt. 4:2)

    This seems to be a pattern of speech that means there were no breaks even at night, for a duration of multiple days. I think the emphasis is on day and night as a unit. Unfortunately, most of these events do not appear to have an indication of the time of day for the start and end, except Matthew 12:40, which is what you are asking about.

    Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica (https://www.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.TP_Q51_A4.html) said:

    It remains then to find the solution in the customary usage of speech of the Scriptures, whereby the whole is understood from the part": so that we are able to take a day and a night as one natural day. And so the first day is computed from its ending, during which Christ died and was buried on the Friday; while the second. day is an entire day with twenty-four hours of night and day; while the night following belongs to the third day.

  3. #18
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    greenonions,
    re: "Unfortunately, most of these events do not appear to have an indication of the time of day for the start and end, except Matthew 12:40, which is what you are asking about."


    Actually, it isn't. Matthew 12:40 was merely mentioned as the background impetus for the topic request. See points 5 and 6 above.

  4. #19
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    Someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

  5. #20
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    I need to add to the OP - "and who thinks that a calendar day began at sunset".

  6. #21
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    In thinking about it, I realize that it doesn't make any difference with regard to sunset versus sunrise; there would still be a lack of a third night with a 6th day of the week crucifixion.

  7. #22
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    Someone new looking in may know of examples.

  8. #23
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    I had posted this topic in the "Christians Answer" sub forum of the Special Forums category. However, I was told that it was not appropriate for that forum and was directed to the Areopagus section.

    1. The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth"

    2. There are those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

    3. Of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when the Messiah's spirit left His body.

    4. A 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

    5. To account for the lack of a 3rd night, some of those mentioned above say that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language.

    6. I wonder if anyone who falls in that group of believers could provide examples to support that belief; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime and/or no part of the night time could have occurred?
    I don't think that you will find many who would argue for a nuanced colloquial explanation of "three days and three nights", because it's a pretty straightforward timeline. But, perhaps the issue is that the "heart of the earth" is a figure of speech. If the Heart of the earth is actually the city of Jerusalem, we have something. Culturally and geographically, Jerusalem was in the middle of everything at the time Jesus said this.


    To go along with this: his final preaching and prophetic ministry were 3 days and three nights long. This would match with Jonah's ministry to Nineveh, which Jesus invokes as "the sign of Jonah".
    Jonah 3:3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, three days’ journey in breadth.


    What comes into play then, is how to approach Jesus' location on the days and nights that follow his arrival in Bethany "six days" before Passover, knowing that Passover and the feast of Unleavened Bread are reckoned on the calendar as nightfall Nissan 14. start Nissan 15. The time for Jesus' dead body to see decay comes into play as well. Since rigor mortis occurs in about 48 hours, it would stand to reason that a Friday evening burrial and Sunday morning resurrection would see to it that the body did not decay (corruption).

    This would reconcile how Jesus can say he is both "raised on the third day" (after only two nights) and figuratively how he will be "in the heart of the earth" for 3 days and nights.
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

  9. #24
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    Aijalon,
    re: "...perhaps the issue is that the 'heart of the earth' is a figure of speech. If the Heart of the earth is actually the city of Jerusalem, we have something."

    re: "To go along with this: his final preaching and prophetic ministry were 3 days and three nights long. This would match with Jonah's ministry to Nineveh, which Jesus invokes as 'the sign of Jonah'."

    re: "The time for Jesus' dead body to see decay comes into play as well. Since rigor mortis occurs in about 48 hours, it would stand to reason that a Friday evening burrial and Sunday morning resurrection would see to it that the body did not decay (corruption)."

    re: "This would reconcile how Jesus can say he is both "raised on the third day" (after only two nights) and figuratively how he will be "in the heart of the earth" for 3 days and nights."


    Those are issues for a different topic. Perhaps you could start one. This one is directed to anyone who believes that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week and who thinks that the 'heart of the earth' is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when the Messiah's spirit left His body and who tries to account for the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language, i.e., that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of the daytime and/or no part of the night time could have occur.

  10. #25
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    Aijalon,
    re: "...perhaps the issue is that the 'heart of the earth' is a figure of speech. If the Heart of the earth is actually the city of Jerusalem, we have something."

    re: "To go along with this: his final preaching and prophetic ministry were 3 days and three nights long. This would match with Jonah's ministry to Nineveh, which Jesus invokes as 'the sign of Jonah'."

    re: "The time for Jesus' dead body to see decay comes into play as well. Since rigor mortis occurs in about 48 hours, it would stand to reason that a Friday evening burrial and Sunday morning resurrection would see to it that the body did not decay (corruption)."

    re: "This would reconcile how Jesus can say he is both "raised on the third day" (after only two nights) and figuratively how he will be "in the heart of the earth" for 3 days and nights."


    Those are issues for a different topic. Perhaps you could start one. This one is directed to anyone who believes that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week and who thinks that the 'heart of the earth' is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when the Messiah's spirit left His body and who tries to account for the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language, i.e., that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of the daytime and/or no part of the night time could have occur.
    You aren't king of "your topic", my response was relevant to the subject. I hope someone comes along to respond in the exact way you expect or want. Do you have a good reason to expect that someone will?

    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    Aijalon,
    re: "...perhaps the issue is that the 'heart of the earth' is a figure of speech. If the Heart of the earth is actually the city of Jerusalem, we have something."

    re: "To go along with this: his final preaching and prophetic ministry were 3 days and three nights long. This would match with Jonah's ministry to Nineveh, which Jesus invokes as 'the sign of Jonah'."

    re: "The time for Jesus' dead body to see decay comes into play as well. Since rigor mortis occurs in about 48 hours, it would stand to reason that a Friday evening burrial and Sunday morning resurrection would see to it that the body did not decay (corruption)."

    re: "This would reconcile how Jesus can say he is both "raised on the third day" (after only two nights) and figuratively how he will be "in the heart of the earth" for 3 days and nights."


    Those are issues for a different topic. Perhaps you could start one. This one is directed to anyone who believes that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week and who thinks that the 'heart of the earth' is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when the Messiah's spirit left His body and who tries to account for the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language, i.e., that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of the daytime and/or no part of the night time could have occur.
    You aren't king of "your topic", my response was relevant to the subject. I hope someone comes along to respond in the exact way you expect or want. Do you have a good reason to expect that someone will?
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

  11. #26
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    Aijalon,
    re: "You aren't king of 'your topic'"

    Sure I am. And as king I know if an issue is or isn't the issue of this topic.



    re: "...my response was relevant to the subject."

    Your response had zero relevance to this topic. This topic is concerned with one thing and only one thing - examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

  12. #27
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    I had posted this topic in the "Christians Answer" sub forum of the Special Forums category. However, I was told that it was not appropriate for that forum and was directed to the Areopagus section.

    1. The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth"

    2. There are those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

    3. Of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when the Messiah's spirit left His body.

    4. A 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

    5. To account for the lack of a 3rd night, some of those mentioned above say that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language.

    6. I wonder if anyone who falls in that group of believers could provide examples to support that belief; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime and/or no part of the night time could have occurred?
    For me it seems clear the crucifixion occurred on a Thursday, not a Friday.
    Also, the Friday of that week, was a special high-sabbath according to one of the gospel accounts; which shows that there were actually two sabbaths in that week....the special high-sabbath on Friday and the regular weekly sabbath on Saturday.
    This was why when Crucified on Thursday, they needed to take the body down and bury it before the sabbath (the high sabbath)...otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to bury it until Sunday.

    The idea that Good Friday is crufixion day, makes no sense to me...other that just a RCC tradition that 'stuck'.

  13. #28
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    Aijalon,
    re: "You aren't king of 'your topic'"

    Sure I am. And as king I know if an issue is or isn't the issue of this topic.



    re: "...my response was relevant to the subject."

    Your response had zero relevance to this topic. This topic is concerned with one thing and only one thing - examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.
    Is there evidence to suggest that this view is indeed common? If not then your line of questioning is a fool's errand.
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

  14. #29
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    David Taylor,
    re: "For me it seems clear the crucifixion occurred on a Thursday, not a Friday."


    Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate you probably don't know of any examples so this topic does not apply to you.

  15. #30
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    Re: Common figure of speech/colloquial language?

    Aijalon,
    re: "Is there evidence to suggest that this view is indeed common?"


    If I knew that I wouldn't have needed to start this topic.

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