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Thread: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

  1. #91
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    Re: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    Interesting. I never noticed that that phrase was only used during Isaiah's prophecy at the time of Hezekiah. I guess one reason why it's often interpreted as the Messiah is because the son is given some pretty exalted names:
    Right, he certainly does. But the names could also be about God, not the person with those names. As an aside, I never understood how 9:6 could be referring to Jesus anyway, isn't he the Son, not the Father?
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  2. #92

    Re: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Right, he certainly does. But the names could also be about God, not the person with those names.
    I was thinking about how many Old Testament names refer to God or have part of God's name in it e.g. Jehoshaphat, Elijah, Daniel. One difference in Jeremiah 23:5 is that the divine name is spelled out fully.

    As an aside, I never understood how 9:6 could be referring to Jesus anyway, isn't he the Son, not the Father?
    Good observation! I've had the same difficulty...until I looked around and thought about it more today. I'm not totally sure, but here are two possibilities:

    1) Maybe Everlasting Father could instead be translated "Father of Eternity", indicating being the origin or lord of eternity

    2) Jesus could be the "Everlasting Father" to people, without being the Father in the Trinity. In the book of Hebrews, Jesus calls the believers both "brothers" and "children", because as sons of God, they are both sons of God the Father and sons of God the Son.

    Hebrews 2:11 WEB For both he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brothers, 12 saying,

    “I will declare your name to my brothers.
    Among of the congregation I will sing your praise.”

    13 Again, “I will put my trust in him.” Again, “Behold, here I am with the children whom God has given me.” 14 Since then the children have shared in flesh and blood, he also himself in the same way partook of the same, that through death he might bring to nothing him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,


    Note that the passage above quotes from Psalm 22:22 and Isaiah 8:17-18.

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God’s children, to those who believe in his name:

    Romans 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

  3. #93
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    Re: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    I was thinking about how many Old Testament names refer to God or have part of God's name in it e.g. Jehoshaphat, Elijah, Daniel. One difference in Jeremiah 23:5 is that the divine name is spelled out fully.
    The medieval commentator Rashi understand it to mean that God will vindicate us during this one's time.



    Good observation! I've had the same difficulty...until I looked around and thought about it more today. I'm not totally sure, but here are two possibilities:

    1) Maybe Everlasting Father could instead be translated "Father of Eternity", indicating being the origin or lord of eternity

    2) Jesus could be the "Everlasting Father" to people, without being the Father in the Trinity. In the book of Hebrews, Jesus calls the believers both "brothers" and "children", because as sons of God, they are both sons of God the Father and sons of God the Son.
    Could be. I've seldom heard it raised as an issue, so your finding it means your are delving deep into the bible's texts and not overlooking or ignoring things. Nice work!
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  4. #94

    Re: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    The medieval commentator Rashi understand it to mean that God will vindicate us during this one's time.

    [LEFT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]Could be. I've seldom heard it raised as an issue, so your finding it means your are delving deep into the bible's texts and not overlooking or ignoring things. Nice work!
    Thanks. I think we've exhausted this thread. Did you say you wanted to start a new thread in Controversial Issues about the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31?

  5. #95
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    Re: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Could be. I've seldom heard it raised as an issue, so your finding it means your are delving deep into the bible's texts and not overlooking or ignoring things. Nice work!
    I doubt you'll find a Christian that hasn't wondered the same. That you think Christians, indeed any reader, doesn't consider how the Son can be the Father makes me wonder about how you perceive anyone other than yourself or anyone that's not a Jew. Sad and insulting either way. Not that that is your intention.....

  6. #96
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    Re: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by greenonions View Post
    Thanks. I think we've exhausted this thread. Did you say you wanted to start a new thread in Controversial Issues about the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31?
    Sure, why not?
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I doubt you'll find a Christian that hasn't wondered the same.
    That's great. As I've said, I've seldom heard it being raised as an issue by Christians. (Actually, perhaps "never" is a better word).


    That you think Christians, indeed any reader, doesn't consider how the Son can be the Father makes me wonder about how you perceive anyone other than yourself or anyone that's not a Jew.
    I think people in general see what they want to see and discount the rest. Isaiah 9 is obviously about Jesus so the details are not relevant.


    Sad and insulting either way.
    You'll get used to it. Someone in another topic thinks that all Jews are liars, and other helpful readers even brought up biblical support for the idea! Yup, the world can be a tough place.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  8. #98
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    Re: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    That's great. As I've said, I've seldom heard it being raised as an issue by Christians. (Actually, perhaps "never" is a better word).
    Because it's not an issue. I can be a father to others and not be their father. Just common sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    You'll get used to it.
    I'm 49 years old and I'm no more used to people not having common sense than ever before.

  9. #99
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    Re: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Because it's not an issue.
    Greenonions thinks it's an issue. Maybe you should have a chat with that poster.
    I'm 49 years old and I'm no more used to people not having common sense than ever before.
    And you're still sad/insulted.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  10. #100
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    Re: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Greenonions thinks it's an issue.
    Not according to post #146.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    And you're still sad/insulted.
    Ecc 2:14 The wise man's eyes are in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness:

    Ecc 7:2 It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart. 3 Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better. 4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth. ........12 For wisdom is a defence, and money is a defence: but the excellency of knowledge is, that wisdom giveth life to them that have it.

  11. #101
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    Re: Are we to be slaves to the Law of God?

    In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:1
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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