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Thread: Backlash after Nike signs new deal with Colin Kaepernick

  1. #121
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    Re: Backlash after Nike signs new deal with Colin Kaepernick

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    First off great post, I read the entire thing but i'd like to talk a bit more about this point if you are up for that. It seems that you feel that other people not engaging in these moments of tribute actually takes away other peoples ability to provide tribute in the manner that they feel is proper and due. I sort of think of it like this, if just you and I are standing in a room and the anthem plays, if I kneel you are still free to do whatever you like. So in that regard I do not see how it interferes with your chosen method of paying respect. From the perspective of it robbing service people of their tribute, i'd argue that no one is required to pay tribute or even feel that any service people are owed any tribute moreover their refusal doesn't actually take anything from them because tribute in this situation is something that is given as a personal choice, moreover it is symbolic. In other words no one is robbed of any actual thing or any symbolic thing because as nice as it is to have people willing to serve and die, service is not guaranteed any particular behavior regarding the anthem from the american public. To take it a step further I think its petty and counter to the very idea of selfless service for a service person to demand or insist on any such thing from an american citizen.
    You've twisted what I said totally out of context. I never suggested that the lack of respect for military personnel by other people during the playing of the anthem would somehow diminish that of my own. (That doesn't even make sense). And when I spoke of them being "robbed" of that respect, it was in the context of all attention being focused on Kaepernick, and the anthem being made a political football serving his personal interests, rather than the solemn purpose it has always served. Not sure why you're fixated on a brief aside from a 3-paragraph post, but that's all there is to it, so further dialogue about it would be pointless.

    Viewing the anthem in the context of honoring fallen warriors at all is probably baffling to you. Yet that mindset comes easily to myself and others who appreciate--in this modern world of tyranny and oppressive regimes--those who have TRULY "sacrificed everything" to help provide us with freedom and liberty. You won't find pictures of their faces all over the internet, as in the case of Kaepernick. But you'll find them in the cherished memories and photos of their families. And they don't have a famous name on a jersey like him. But you'll find their names on grave markers in national or private cemeteries scattered all around the country.

    No patriot ever "demanded" or "insisted" on being honored by the American people. How you came up with that is beyond me. Gratitude is never expected by those who serve selflessly and honorably in battle. If people like yourself feel our dead or broken countrymen "were just doing their job," and a natural, innate sense of appreciation for their sacrifice seems unreasonable, no one is obligated to give them a thought during the anthem. Anyone with this mentality is free to sit, kneel, pick his nose, or stand on his head during the anthem. (Perhaps the latter option would provide a beneficial increase in blood supply to the brain).

    When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.

  2. #122

    Re: Backlash after Nike signs new deal with Colin Kaepernick

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    You've twisted what I said totally out of context. I never suggested that the lack of respect for military personnel by other people during the playing of the anthem would somehow diminish that of my own. (That doesn't even make sense). And when I spoke of them being "robbed" of that respect, it was in the context of all attention being focused on Kaepernick, and the anthem being made a political football serving his personal interests, rather than the solemn purpose it has always served. Not sure why you're fixated on a brief aside from a 3-paragraph post, but that's all there is to it, so further dialogue about it would be pointless.
    Well, because that part was the prt I wanted to talk more about. I wasn't trying to twist you, it seems to me that that is what you are saying, which is why i wanted to talk more about that specific passage, simple. To my mind If they are being robbed of attention, it is the attention of people that choose to pay attention to Kaepernick (or his protest) as opposed to taking that time to pay attention to service people. To me this is the choice of the individual and service people do not ever have any right to anyone's attention under these circumstances. I do not see how they are being robbed of anything that is owed them in any sense. maybe you dont either, iff so does your entire arguement amount to the fact that you dont like it when people dont pay attention to dead solidiers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    Viewing the anthem in the context of honoring fallen warriors at all is probably baffling to you. Yet that mindset comes easily to myself and others who appreciate--in this modern world of tyranny and oppressive regimes--those who have TRULY "sacrificed everything" to help provide us with freedom and liberty. You won't find pictures of their faces all over the internet, as in the case of Kaepernick. But you'll find them in the cherished memories and photos of their families. And they don't have a famous name on a jersey like him. But you'll find their names on grave markers in national or private cemeteries scattered all around the country.
    IDK there is a picture of one in this very thread like 4 posts ago, but yes generally speaking fallen soldiers are less popular than football players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    No patriot ever "demanded" or "insisted" on being honored by the American people. How you came up with that is beyond me. Gratitude is never expected by those who serve selflessly and honorably in battle. If people like yourself feel our dead or broken countrymen "were just doing their job," and a natural, innate sense of appreciation for their sacrifice seems unreasonable, no one is obligated to give them a thought during the anthem. Anyone with this mentality is free to sit, kneel, pick his nose, or stand on his head during the anthem. (Perhaps the latter option would provide a beneficial increase in blood supply to the brain).
    I guess where i dont understand you is in ,If Soldiers don't demand it, and citizens aren't obligated, where is the problem exactly? IOW who has transgressed and in what way?
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  3. #123
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    Re: Backlash after Nike signs new deal with Colin Kaepernick

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    Well, because that part was the prt I wanted to talk more about. I wasn't trying to twist you, it seems to me that that is what you are saying, which is why i wanted to talk more about that specific passage, simple. To my mind If they are being robbed of attention, it is the attention of people that choose to pay attention to Kaepernick (or his protest) as opposed to taking that time to pay attention to service people. To me this is the choice of the individual and service people do not ever have any right to anyone's attention under these circumstances. I do not see how they are being robbed of anything that is owed them in any sense. maybe you dont either, iff so does your entire arguement amount to the fact that you dont like it when people dont pay attention to dead solidiers?
    Here's what I said in the part of the post you were referring to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner
    I, like many other veterans and active military personnel, feel our anthem is not just about national pride, but provides us a few moments to pay tribute to the many fallen and wounded warriors who have sacrificed so much to give us the rights and freedoms we enjoy (and so often take for granted). It's not the fault of those who gave their all defending those rights if some public officials fail to provide them. So why rob those patriots of their tribute by diverting attention away from them with a misguided form of protest? Especially when it is accomplishing nothing except causing division, offending others, and spoiling the sport of football for so many?
    Nowhere in the text do I suggest that people not actively engaged in paying tribute to our military diminishes the ability of others to do so. So, when you say this:

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses
    It seems that you feel that other people not engaging in these moments of tribute actually takes away other peoples ability to provide tribute in the manner that they feel is proper and due.
    I'm justified in saying you've completely distorted what I've said. And frankly, that you would think me so obtuse as to hold the absurd view above, is insulting.

    Do I believe the anthem provides a time when people can honor those who have served their country? Yes. Does Kaepernick and everyone else have the right not to stand and pay tribute during the anthem? Absolutely. Do they have the right to withhold appreciation and respect that others feel is due? Absolutely. Does that in any way diminish the honor and appreciation accorded by others, or limit their ability to pay such tribute? No. Does that clear things up for you?

    IDK there is a picture of one in this very thread like 4 posts ago, but yes generally speaking fallen soldiers are less popular than football players.
    Glen Coffee doesn't count. In another example of misreading, you missed the part all the warriors had their names on grave markers.

    I guess where i dont understand you is in ,If Soldiers don't demand it, and citizens aren't obligated, where is the problem exactly? IOW who has transgressed and in what way?
    Nobody has "transgressed." And it isn't me you're not understanding. It's a sentiment common to most that seems lost on you: a natural, innate sense of appreciation for those who have fought and died building and securing our republic and it's freedoms. Guess I was right, earlier:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner
    Viewing the anthem in the context of honoring fallen warriors at all is probably baffling to you.
    If you don't get it, you don't get it. I'm done here.

    When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.

  4. #124

    Re: Backlash after Nike signs new deal with Colin Kaepernick

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    Here's what I said in the part of the post you were referring to:

    Nowhere in the text do I suggest that people not actively engaged in paying tribute to our military diminishes the ability of others to do so. So, when you say this:

    I'm justified in saying you've completely distorted what I've said. And frankly, that you would think me so obtuse as to hold the absurd view above, is insulting.

    Do I believe the anthem provides a time when people can honor those who have served their country? Yes. Does Kaepernick and everyone else have the right not to stand and pay tribute during the anthem? Absolutely. Do they have the right to withhold appreciation and respect that others feel is due? Absolutely. Does that in any way diminish the honor and appreciation accorded by others, or limit their ability to pay such tribute? No. Does that clear things up for you?


    Glen Coffee doesn't count. In another example of misreading, you missed the part all the warriors had their names on grave markers.

    Nobody has "transgressed." And it isn't me you're not understanding. It's a sentiment common to most that seems lost on you: a natural, innate sense of appreciation for those who have fought and died building and securing our republic and it's freedoms. Guess I was right, earlier:

    If you don't get it, you don't get it. I'm done here.


    I simply do not understand how you rob someone of something that they do not own and are not owed. I've been upfront about not understanding what is at the heart of your argument outside of you thinking people should feel and act a certain way regarding the anthem, so saying i'm twisting your words is the least generous way to characterize a person saying flat out that they do not understand your point. So far as I can tell, you are saying that there is no transgression, If no one did anything wrong then what are you complaining about exactly?

    Additionally, Its true that I do not have a natural and innate sense of appreciation for those who have fought and died building and securing our republic and it's freedoms, this was something I learned, and i'd argue it is a thing that must be learned and is not innate although it is perfectly natural. Moreover I do not believe that my appreciation hinges on any particular behaviors or rituals that I may or may not engage in during the national anthem...but hey if you're done you're done.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  5. #125
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    Re: Backlash after Nike signs new deal with Colin Kaepernick

    Goodbye Nike, hello Under Armour!

    There is a sale on Under Armour shoes at Kohl's!

    https://www.kohls.com/search.jsp?sub...50015485899961
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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