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Thread: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

  1. #121
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    Re: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Read the context of the posts... both silent and verbal praying is being discussed but you and Rabbi have ganged up on isolated comments dealing with verbal.

    Concerning specifics of verbal, all I've offered is that WHEN silent prayer is not answered, change the praying to crying out (verbal)... I've even posted scripture when such was done and there is a TON more examples. Does this mean it is being said that silent prayers are lesser?

    Only you and Rabbi think so... why?
    Because you and others aren't providing an argument.

    For example, you provide 6 Scripture and then say, "all I'm trying to point out is that when God isn't answering [silent prayer], try crying out... see if there is a difference in God's response time!"

    So let's ask ourselves:

    - Is there any indication in Matthew 27 that Jesus cried out loud because God wasn't answering His prayers uttered in thought? No.
    - Is Psalm 56 an argument against 'crying out' in thought (for the person who can't speak)? No.
    - Does 1 Chronicles 4 mention Jabez's unanswered prayers, uttered in thought? No.
    - What about Psalm 145? Nope, still nothing.
    - What about Matthew 14? Nyet.
    - Luke 18? Do you suppose that if the man couldn't speak, that Jesus would have ignored him? Again, no, nor is this a statement on 'crying out' vs. prayer uttered in thought.

    So to your point we would have to answer: but you haven't said anything about prayer uttered in thought, because those verses don't say anything about prayer uttered in thought.

    And to be clear, neither of us are against verbal praying, or 'LOUD verbal praying'. We're against the idea that verbal praying is superior to other kinds of prayer. There is nothing in Scripture to support this view, as in fact no support has yet been provided.

  2. #122

    Re: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    Unless they're three mute people, right?

    I can tell that this is one of those herpy-derpy theological prejudices that won't be rooted out until people acknowledge their own sin and just how discriminatory and ableist their theologies are.
    And you only posted part of my response why? the very next thing I said was the Lord making his abode with us. Why do you look for reasons to post counter things?

  3. #123
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    Re: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    And you only posted part of my response why? the very next thing I said was the Lord making his abode with us. Why do you look for reasons to post counter things?
    Are you asking why I replied to a point I saw a problem with, and not to points I didn't see a problem with?

  4. #124

    Re: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    Are you asking why I replied to a point I saw a problem with, and not to points I didn't see a problem with?
    To me both points went together...you are the one that separated them

  5. #125
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    Re: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    To me both points went together...you are the one that separated them
    Well, yes...

  6. #126
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    Re: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    Because you and others aren't providing an argument.

    For example, you provide 6 Scripture and then say, "all I'm trying to point out is that when God isn't answering [silent prayer], try crying out... see if there is a difference in God's response time!"

    So let's ask ourselves:

    - Is there any indication in Matthew 27 that Jesus cried out loud because God wasn't answering His prayers uttered in thought? No.
    - Is Psalm 56 an argument against 'crying out' in thought (for the person who can't speak)? No.
    - Does 1 Chronicles 4 mention Jabez's unanswered prayers, uttered in thought? No.
    - What about Psalm 145? Nope, still nothing.
    - What about Matthew 14? Nyet.
    - Luke 18? Do you suppose that if the man couldn't speak, that Jesus would have ignored him? Again, no, nor is this a statement on 'crying out' vs. prayer uttered in thought.

    So to your point we would have to answer: but you haven't said anything about prayer uttered in thought, because those verses don't say anything about prayer uttered in thought.

    And to be clear, neither of us are against verbal praying, or 'LOUD verbal praying'. We're against the idea that verbal praying is superior to other kinds of prayer. There is nothing in Scripture to support this view, as in fact no support has yet been provided.
    May I ask one question first?

    Have you prayed silently over a problem or a need (say, for the church you attend, for a family member or friend) and had reached a point of anguish so that you changed to crying out... then God quickly answered?

    Based on your answer, I will know how to address all the "nopes."
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  7. #127

    Re: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

    Slug, just so you know I have understood what you have said...and I think there is good things in evaluating how we spend time in prayer. One thing you pointed out was the verbal praise..the Lord instantly gave me a scripture in reading that...so I know for myself it is something I need to do more. So personally I thank you for your honesty in you prayer. I got immediate confirmation when reading it. So I need to make some changes.

  8. #128
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    Re: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Slug, just so you know I have understood what you have said...and I think there is good things in evaluating how we spend time in prayer. One thing you pointed out was the verbal praise..the Lord instantly gave me a scripture in reading that...so I know for myself it is something I need to do more. So personally I thank you for your honesty in you prayer. I got immediate confirmation when reading it. So I need to make some changes.
    Amen... based on A's answer, I will have to go into "position" before God.

    Based on your post, God has pointed out where/how your "position" before Him may have been lacking. Crying out is MORE than just voicing (silent or verbal) or being verbally loud in prayer and when it comes to praise before God and being in His presence, it's all about position.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  9. #129

    Re: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Amen... based on A's answer, I will have to go into "position" before God.

    Based on your post, God has pointed out where/how your "position" before Him may have been lacking. Crying out is MORE than just voicing (silent or verbal) or being verbally loud in prayer and when it comes to praise before God and being in His presence, it's all about position.
    Well I used to have my praise music going a lot...I don't know what makes us stop things all the sudden...but thankfully to youtube I can put on my favorite artists and sing along as I used to...I can even do it as I type... so thanks again

  10. #130
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    Re: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    May I ask one question first?

    Have you prayed silently over a problem or a need (say, for the church you attend, for a family member or friend) and had reached a point of anguish so that you changed to crying out... then God quickly answered?

    Based on your answer, I will know how to address all the "nopes."
    No, that's not been my experience.

    I mostly pray in my head, but I pray out loud as well, and I haven't noticed a difference between the two.

    What I'd suggest is that you're confusing a perception of God's response with the reality that, for example, anguish is often more properly expressed with words, or with actions, than it is in thought. But, God doesn't answer any less slow the person who can't speak or act out.

    Or, it could be that by speaking out, the individual learns or realises something of himself that leads him to a new realisation, that God then acts on.

    But these are different questions than "is spoken prayer more effective than prayer uttered in thought?" and the answer is both (1) what do we mean by more effective, and (2) no. We know that it isn't because there are plenty of people who can't utter a spoken prayer, or who can't act out, and we wouldn't suggest - none of us here - that God acts any less quickly for them, than for another person.

  11. #131
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    Re: Mental Prayer vs Spoken Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    No, that's not been my experience.

    I mostly pray in my head, but I pray out loud as well, and I haven't noticed a difference between the two.

    What I'd suggest is that you're confusing a perception of God's response with the reality that, for example, anguish is often more properly expressed with words, or with actions, than it is in thought. But, God doesn't answer any less slow the person who can't speak or act out.

    Or, it could be that by speaking out, the individual learns or realises something of himself that leads him to a new realisation, that God then acts on.

    But these are different questions than "is spoken prayer more effective than prayer uttered in thought?" and the answer is both (1) what do we mean by more effective, and (2) no. We know that it isn't because there are plenty of people who can't utter a spoken prayer, or who can't act out, and we wouldn't suggest - none of us here - that God acts any less quickly for them, than for another person.
    Hooah, I'll get back on focus but want to say this.

    Couldn't sleep last night, about 0200 I went downstairs and ate some cereal at the kitchen table while reading the next two chapters in Matthew, continuing in reading of all the Bible in a year. I had grabbed both of the Study Bibles so after the chapter reading, began to flip around, looking at the notes of various scriptures, noting how each reflected the scriptures in the note portions. I also began to poke around in the Compendium in each and found some stuff I'll have to study in more detail in time.

    Anyway, I eventually went into the backroom where I usually do my studying, praying, reading, etc. I silently prayed and then went to bed around 0300 or so. Up at 0530 for work.

    Even though we don't actively review our own prayers in our mind all the time, I was reflecting on elements of the prayer. I just posted in the Praise forum about this morning when I came onto the Army post. The response from the troop at the gate, is in direct relation to my prayer. God's way of saying, "I was listening!"

    I will get back to a more focused response in relation to what we are discussing soon.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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