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Thread: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

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    When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Daniel 7:13-14
    13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

    There is a dispute as to when this event took place. I believe that it happened when Jesus ascended back up to heaven after His death and resurrection. I believe that the verse below verifies it which Jesus prayed just before His death

    John 17:5
    5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Daniel 7:13-14
    13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

    There is a dispute as to when this event took place. I believe that it happened when Jesus ascended back up to heaven after His death and resurrection. I believe that the verse below verifies it which Jesus prayed just before His death

    John 17:5
    5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
    I actually believe that this courtroom scene, in which the Son of Man appears before God's court, is an explanation for the coming of the Son of Man from heaven. The reason I say this is because the *reason* given for the coming of the Son of Man is to establish God's Kingdom on earth. In order to acquire God's authority to do this, the Son of Man appears in heaven before God, and so is prepared to come down from heaven, defeating the forces of Antichrist.

    It may be that this also would explain the courtroom scene in Rev 4-5, as a preparation for the coming of the Son of Man to establish his millennial Kingdom on earth. At least, this is what I think currently.

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    For me the simplest explanation is that verse 13 is when Jesus ascended.
    Verse 14 however isn't saying that the authority etc is given at that moment, yet in Matt 28 before Jesus ascends He stated "all authority is given to me..."
    So I see verse 14 as a statement of what will occur in regards to this one who is like a son of amn.
    He is given these things at some point in time:
    1) Authority (before ascension, after resurrection)
    2) glory (receiving now, and continually so going on)
    3) sovereign power (yet to be given when the 7th trumpet is blown).
    4) worship (started, but also increasing in relation with the glory)
    5) Dominion (already exists but held as an inheritance which He will receive when He is crowned following the victory in the heavenlies - at the time of the 7th trumpet).

    So it isn't a simple chronological list, but rather one comes who is known for these things which happen at various times.

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I actually believe that this courtroom scene, in which the Son of Man appears before God's court, is an explanation for the coming of the Son of Man from heaven. The reason I say this is because the *reason* given for the coming of the Son of Man is to establish God's Kingdom on earth. In order to acquire God's authority to do this, the Son of Man appears in heaven before God, and so is prepared to come down from heaven, defeating the forces of Antichrist.

    It may be that this also would explain the courtroom scene in Rev 4-5, as a preparation for the coming of the Son of Man to establish his millennial Kingdom on earth. At least, this is what I think currently.
    But the verses do specify that Jesus is going to heaven and in the verses just previous to this it states that thrones were set up in heaven so it seams that Jesus then sits on the thrown

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    For me the simplest explanation is that verse 13 is when Jesus ascended.
    Verse 14 however isn't saying that the authority etc is given at that moment, yet in Matt 28 before Jesus ascends He stated "all authority is given to me..."
    So I see verse 14 as a statement of what will occur in regards to this one who is like a son of amn.
    He is given these things at some point in time:
    1) Authority (before ascension, after resurrection)
    2) glory (receiving now, and continually so going on)
    3) sovereign power (yet to be given when the 7th trumpet is blown).
    4) worship (started, but also increasing in relation with the glory)
    5) Dominion (already exists but held as an inheritance which He will receive when He is crowned following the victory in the heavenlies - at the time of the 7th trumpet).

    So it isn't a simple chronological list, but rather one comes who is known for these things which happen at various times.
    If I understand you correctly, I can buy into some of this. Jesus did receive his authority immediately upon glorification, if not sooner. Certainly Jesus always had divine authority, calming the storm and healing the sick. However, this may be talking about the authority he received to establish God's Kingdom on earth.

    In that respect, Jesus may very well have received this particular authority at his ascension. Whether this scenario is replayed or not immediately before Jesus returns I don't know. It certainly seems like it does--perhaps a reiteration of his authority in the context of his return to destroy Antichrist. It may be a review of the wicked world under Antichrist, determining that Jesus has authority to destroy the systems of the world in favor of God's Millennial Kingdom.

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But the verses do specify that Jesus is going to heaven and in the verses just previous to this it states that thrones were set up in heaven so it seams that Jesus then sits on the thrown
    Yes, that is the problem. So how you view this is really determined by your view of the language used. Is this a chronological series of events, or a general prediction of the coming of the Son of Man, coupled with an explanation of the court room process anticipating it?

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Daniel 7:13-14
    13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

    There is a dispute as to when this event took place. I believe that it happened when Jesus ascended back up to heaven after His death and resurrection. I believe that the verse below verifies it which Jesus prayed just before His death

    John 17:5
    5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
    Jesus has all authority. But the manifestation of that authority is only given in stages.

    From his boyhood, to his 3.5 years of anointed ministry, to his taking his seat of authority in the heavens, his using his authority kept growing.
    And finally at the second coming this manifestation of his authority extends to ruling over every human on this planet, something that doesn't manifest at the moment except via the true church.

    The "vision at night" described from v2 until v14 is describing the rise and fall of four kingdoms until Jesus "comes on the clouds" and "all people's" worship him. That's referring to the second coming.

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Daniel 7:13-14
    13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

    There is a dispute as to when this event took place. I believe that it happened when Jesus ascended back up to heaven after His death and resurrection. I believe that the verse below verifies it which Jesus prayed just before His death

    John 17:5
    5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
    I agree.
    Was there another time when Jesus was in a position to approach the Fathers presence?

    At his second coming he brings all the glory of his Father with him.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Jesus has all authority. But the manifestation of that authority is only given in stages.

    From his boyhood, to his 3.5 years of anointed ministry, to his taking his seat of authority in the heavens, his using his authority kept growing.
    And finally at the second coming this manifestation of his authority extends to ruling over every human on this planet, something that doesn't manifest at the moment except via the true church.

    The "vision at night" described from v2 until v14 is describing the rise and fall of four kingdoms until Jesus "comes on the clouds" and "all people's" worship him. That's referring to the second coming.
    But what about this verse below which was when Jesus ascended back up to heaven

    Revelation 12:11
    10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:


    “Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
    For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.


    This seams just like the verses in Daniel 7

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    I agree.
    Was there another time when Jesus was in a position to approach the Fathers presence?

    At his second coming he brings all the glory of his Father with him.
    Agreed.........................

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But what about this verse below which was when Jesus ascended back up to heaven

    Revelation 12:11
    10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:


    “Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
    For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.


    This seams just like the verses in Daniel 7
    Like I said, Jesus has increasing authority. There are various places in the heavenlies, and Satan is currently there. The moment that the church achieves it's mandate to preach the gospel to so nations, Jesus' kingdom and authority and power increases, taking over those heavenly realms over this world. Satan however still retains 3.5 years of authority over earthly kingdoms.

    Context of Daniel 7 is a little different to that moment in Rev 12. In Daniel 7, it's not just the heavenly realm, but it's the earthly realm where Jesus takes authority, over all peoples. Additionally Jesus comes on the clouds in Daniel 7:13, a second coming event.

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Clearly this is a second coming text.

    7 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
    2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
    3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

    When do these beasts come up from the sea? Rev 13. This has yet happened.

    GWT Judgement

    9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
    10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
    11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

    So now we go back to the 2000+ years. No. The verses below speak of the father giving his son the inheritance.

    13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
    14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Like I said, Jesus has increasing authority. There are various places in the heavenlies, and Satan is currently there. The moment that the church achieves it's mandate to preach the gospel to so nations, Jesus' kingdom and authority and power increases, taking over those heavenly realms over this world. Satan however still retains 3.5 years of authority over earthly kingdoms.

    Context of Daniel 7 is a little different to that moment in Rev 12. In Daniel 7, it's not just the heavenly realm, but it's the earthly realm where Jesus takes authority, over all peoples. Additionally Jesus comes on the clouds in Daniel 7:13, a second coming event.
    I see Jesus having all authority now just like he said all authority was given to him. He is God and is all powerful as the king of kings and lord of lords


    in Daniel Jesus is on the clouds going too heaven as he approaches the father who is on the throne

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Clearly this is a second coming text.

    7 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
    2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
    3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

    When do these beasts come up from the sea? Rev 13. This has yet happened.

    GWT Judgement

    9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
    10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
    11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

    So now we go back to the 2000+ years. No. The verses below speak of the father giving his son the inheritance.

    13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
    14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
    But there are 4 beast in Daniel 7 and only 2 beast in revelation I see the ones in Daniel starting back with king Neb of Babylon and the 2 beast of revelation back in the first century

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    Re: When did Daniel 7:13-14 take place?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But there are 4 beast in Daniel 7 and only 2 beast in revelation
    Below we see the four beasts of dan 7.

    13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
    8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
    10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    Little horn of dan 7.

    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.


    I see the ones in Daniel starting back with king Neb of Babylon and the 2 beast of revelation back in the first century
    That's the problem. Babylon is not the Lion as so on...… The lion, leopard, bear, beast make up the fourth kingdom.


    1.Babylon
    2.MP
    3.Greece (divided into for parts which creates the fourth kingdom)

    4.Lion, bear, leopard, beast.

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