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Thread: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

  1. #16
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    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Quote Originally Posted by it'sclaudia View Post
    Furthermore, Peter said to"Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit", which brings me to the question of whether or not baptism in water is essential for receiving the Holy Spirit since scripture does say that the moment you believe, you've already received the Holy Spirit, so is baptism in water necessary for receiving the Holy Spirit again? (Or have I misinterpreted this verse)
    I would say you are misapplying it. The act of being water baptized was necessary for those Peter was speaking to, but baptism hasn't had that level of cultural/religious importance since the early church.

    https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...-and-mysticism
    "Not correct. See Cyprian’s Epistle “LVIII 316 To Fidus, on the Baptism of Infants” for an example.

    The “idea” infants needed to be baptized, in part, was because they believed circumcision, the OT shadow of the spiritual baptism, told them to do it. Ritual was a major part of religion at the time. Did the Apostles agree this meant sins remitted and salvation for infants? John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Apostles didn't mention infant baptism, and as far as we know did not practice it. The Apostles fought and spoke against philosophies, Gnosticism, and ‘their rival mystery religions’ of the day in their epistles and said when they departed wolves would bring damnable heresies, not sparing the flock, speaking perverse things, drawing away disciples and overthrowing the faith of some.

    I’m not going to write an essay on Church History, because it speaks for itself on this subject if you take the time to learn it. Christianity didn’t corner the market on baptism or mystery religions. Other religions much older than Christianity baptized and because of similarities Christianity was considered another mystery religion. The world of the early Church was one of paganism, ritual, and the need to 'do something' and contribute to their religion, and religious ‘competition’. The second century Church was different than the first, and the third different than the second, and so on, all getting further away from Scripture because different religions and cultures influence each other when they mingle. Many don’t attempt to understand what this was like, and unfortunately interpret scripture without the historical and cultural lens. That converted believers baptized their infants doesn’t assume Augustinian/Reformed/Calvinist original sin/sin nature, but rather reconciliation to the Creator, law, and ritual. Did some, or even many, baptize their infants because of an Augustinian/Reformed/Calvinist original sin/sin nature view of sorts? Since they were not free of bad influence, what do you think? Does this mean they were right on either account? Of course not. Some did it because of “law” and ritual, or because they believed they had the authority to retain and remit sins, even for an infant that could not believe or not believe for themselves. Are these correct views? No they’re not.

    Since there’s no Scriptural or Apostolic reason they came to that conclusion (baptize infants) and since we know the history and culture, what should we conclude?"

  2. #17

    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlin633 View Post
    This might sound bad as well.
    Forget about heaven, it's more important to do the will of God, to understand who and what we are.
    There is no guarantee that any of us will make it there only by doing our best.
    Don't worry if you don't think your not doing your best just try and do it, like most things the more we try to live as Jesus tells us the easyer it will get.
    It's taken me a long time to get to where I am now mentally, but as my wife says patients is a virtue.
    We can be so impatient sometimes, we want a quick fix, but God does not work that way he wants you to understand the path that you are on and for you to gain knowledge by following it
    Too many people want to go to Heaven.

    I want to go to God my Father.

    Heaven just happens to be where He is...
    Jesus said, "Out of the hardness of your hearts Moses gave a writ of divorce; but from the beginning it was not so." How many more things do you suppose are, "From the beginning, NOT so?"

  3. #18

    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Thread seems to be going off on a rabbit hole, but maybe I can help bring it back. I was meditating on the OP question, "How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?" and this is what came to me...

    Even though I know the Bible, and all the saints, prophets and fathers that came before me; and even though I know a multitude have been saved since the beginning of time, I still feel like MY relationship with Christ is the ONLY one He cares about...


    THAT'S how I know I have the Holy Spirit...
    Jesus said, "Out of the hardness of your hearts Moses gave a writ of divorce; but from the beginning it was not so." How many more things do you suppose are, "From the beginning, NOT so?"

  4. #19
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    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Sorry you feel that way.

  5. #20

    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Sorry you feel that way.
    If you're referring to my post, it wasn't meant as a negative... it was meant to convey the intensely intimate and personal relationship all believers have with their Savior... every one unique, and personal, as if they were the only one that matters to Him, even though we know He loves all...
    Jesus said, "Out of the hardness of your hearts Moses gave a writ of divorce; but from the beginning it was not so." How many more things do you suppose are, "From the beginning, NOT so?"

  6. #21

    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Quote Originally Posted by it'sclaudia View Post
    @keck553
    Thank you for the verse ! My concern was regarding how we would be certain we have the Holy Spirit in the first place to testify if we are indeed God's children but I think I've gotten it cleared up
    A verse that is reassuring to me is; 1 John 3:14:
    We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

    There are only a few requirements to obtaining the spirit of Christ:
    1) To know and accept that without Christ in our life, we are all lost with no hope of salvation. Our sins separate us from God.
    2) To believe that Christ is the son of God, and died for our sins, and rose from the grave (is alive and sitting on his throne in heaven).
    3) To repent, call upon him, asking him to forgive us our sins, come into our life. Having a new mindset to follow after and to trust in Christ as our Savior.

    As a young christian, your concern is not uncommon. Please consider the words of Jesus who equated our faith as a grain of mustard seed. A mustard seed is a very small seed. But as it grows, the tree becomes larger and larger. At the point that the branches is a lodging place for birds and underneath is a nesting place for animals. Jesus said if we have the faith of a mustard seed, we could move a mountain.

    Its not expected that as a new christian that you would have as great confidence as one of the apostles who walked on water to meet Jesus, but your confidence will grow as you become more embedded in Christ. The spirit will grow great within you, the more your mind focuses on God. He wants you to put your whole trust in him. He wants your whole heart, your whole mind, your whole strength.

    As we walk each day as a new christian, our lives gradually change as we begin to apply the fruits of the spirit to our lives. One day you will look back and think, boy have I changed. The things I use to love, are the things I now hate. And the things I now hate, are the things I used to love. This is how we know if we have the spirit of God. Consider this; even as with seasoned Christians, there will be many cycles in our lives that we don't feel as connected to God as we once did or even as other Christians. But when we are at this point in our lives, it is not God who moved away. It is us who puts distances between God. The scripture says in James 4:8 "Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you." The things that puts distances between us and God are sins and distractions. Any thing in our lives that causes us to take our focus off of God.

    If you keep your mind and heart continually focused on God, pray to him, seek him, apply the teaching of Christ in your life, then you will feel the spirit of God overflowing in your life. But be patient and allow time for yourself to grow.

    God bless you.

  7. #22
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    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I would say you are misapplying it. The act of being water baptized was necessary for those Peter was speaking to, but baptism hasn't had that level of cultural/religious importance since the early church.<br>
    <br>
    <a rel="nofollow" href="https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/270322-Church-influenced-by-culture-and-mysticism" target="_blank">https://bibleforums.org/showthread.php/270322-Church-influenced-by-culture-and-mysticism</a><br>
    "Not correct. See Cyprian’s Epistle “LVIII 316 To Fidus, on the Baptism of Infants” for an example.<br>
    <br>
    The “idea” infants needed to be baptized, in part, was because they believed circumcision, the OT shadow of the spiritual baptism, told them to do it. Ritual was a major part of religion at the time. Did the Apostles agree this meant sins remitted and salvation for infants? John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Apostles didn't mention infant baptism, and as far as we know did not practice it. The Apostles fought and spoke against philosophies, Gnosticism, and ‘their rival mystery religions’ of the day in their epistles and said when they departed wolves would bring damnable heresies, not sparing the flock, speaking perverse things, drawing away disciples and overthrowing the faith of some.<br>
    <br>
    I’m not going to write an essay on Church History, because it speaks for itself on this subject if you take the time to learn it. Christianity didn’t corner the market on baptism or mystery religions. Other religions much older than Christianity baptized and because of similarities Christianity was considered another mystery religion. The world of the early Church was one of paganism, ritual, and the need to 'do something' and contribute to their religion, and religious ‘competition’. The second century Church was different than the first, and the third different than the second, and so on, all getting further away from Scripture because different religions and cultures influence each other when they mingle. Many don’t attempt to understand what this was like, and unfortunately interpret scripture without the historical and cultural lens. That converted believers baptized their infants doesn’t assume Augustinian/Reformed/Calvinist original sin/sin nature, but rather reconciliation to the Creator, law, and ritual. Did some, or even many, baptize their infants because of an Augustinian/Reformed/Calvinist original sin/sin nature view of sorts? Since they were not free of bad influence, what do you think? Does this mean they were right on either account? Of course not. Some did it because of “law” and ritual, or because they believed they had the authority to retain and remit sins, even for an infant that could not believe or not believe for themselves. Are these correct views? No they’re not.<br>
    <br>
    Since there’s no Scriptural or Apostolic reason they came to that conclusion (baptize infants) and since we know the history and culture, what should we conclude?"
    I see Infant Baptism as more a Dedication service, by the parents, than a Water Baptism done by the infant. Obviously, an infant has no clue about anything regarding repentance, and even Christianity. The parents dedicate the child to Christianity. They don't wait to raise the child in Christianity until he or she is 13!

    I see Water Baptism as a simple Initiation Ceremony, similar to how you referred to the Mystery Religions practicing certain rites. There was nothing mystical about Water Baptism. It was a public statement of personal dedication. As such, it was a profession of faith in Jesus, and a repentance of having formerly lived without the leadership of Jesus.

    I know this steps on someone's "sacred cow," but I agree with you that Water Baptism was largely a 1st century emphasis. It was the introduction of the Jews into Christianity, and the introduction of pagan Gentiles into Christianity. But in centuries following, whole peoples began to be Christianized, and their children were raised up in Christianity, just as I have been.

    Thus, I agree with you that the importance of Water Baptism lessened over time. As I said before, the important thing is what Water Baptism represented, and the role it played in salvation. It represents the part *we do.* We make the profession of faith. We indicate our repentance.

    This is what Water Baptism represented. The ceremony is a whole lot less important than the repentance indicated by it. It is fundamental that we must *begin* somewhere in our Christian journey. And Water Baptism is as good as any place to begin, where we can publicly profess our faith in Jesus, and declare that we have repented of a non-Christian life. This is how Water Baptism plays a role in our salvation, in my opinion. Sorry if I offend anybody in this. I'm *not* against Water Baptism!

  8. #23
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    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    A verse that is reassuring to me is; 1 John 3:14:
    We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
    I memorized 1 John--it is that beautiful to me. The gist of the letter is that true Christianity is in producing Christianity. If Christ lived a certain way, different from the sinful world, then we can produce that same divine life. John's point is that true Christianity validates itself by actually producing Christ in our works. Otherwise, we're only making vain confessions.

    You're right. The best way to know you have the Holy Spirit is by doing what we know we should be doing. In obeying Christ we produce the works of Christ, and thus intensify our knowledge of the Holy Spirit in our lives. We absolutely *cannot* produce the life of Christ apart from the Holy Spirit.

    How do we know the Holy Spirit will remain with us forever? It is by cultivating our love for Christ by doing what he said. In acting thus we demonstrate that we have aligned ourselves with Christ, and thus with his eternal Kingdom.

    The essential thing to note is that the life of Christ is unlike anything sinful men can produce. That's why unbelievers deny we're "real." That's why they deny Jesus is God. That's why they deny the supernatural element of Christ in our lives, and make it all intellectual.

    Christ is a real supernatural entity, which is manifest in our lives through the Holy Spirit. We *should* be producing a life different from the lives of sinful men around us. We should be producing a supernatural life. I don't know how this is possible without a sense of the Holy Spirit, unless you were, like me, raised up in a nearly "dead" church?

    We simply have to step out of the boat and into the water. We have to experience God. And we do that by choosing to obey Him. He supplies the manifestation of Christ in our lives. He produces, through us, the works of Christ.

    We do the work, and He not just illuminates the works, but enhances them. They become, in reality, the works of Christ in us.

    All this is done because God puts the residence of the Holy Spirit in us when we choose to follow Christ alone, and believe that he gives us the Holy Spirit as a result. He alone can do this work. We can only expect it, and obey God.

    Can you imagine our choosing to live like Christ lived, and then try to live that way without God actually empowering us? No, if we see what Christ's works are like, then we can do them, because the Holy Spirit has been present with us to show us what they are and how to do them.
    Last edited by randyk; Oct 14th 2018 at 04:24 AM.

  9. #24
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    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    I find it silly to dedicate a child to God he has given you to raise in his ways.

  10. #25
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    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I find it silly to dedicate a child to God he has given you to raise in his ways.
    I found it to be a very sincere and religious act to devote my daughter to Christ as a baby. It began the process of raising her in Christ. Her "water baptism" was actually a dedication service, serving as a promise to God to raise her in the faith. And we have done so. And she found Christ completely on her own, and still walks with him today. Nothing silly about it, brother. Who would you devote your child to? Or would you just skip the ceremony and will it into being silently? I like the public approach. Makes me feel better. You can do it any way you like, but at some point you *must* determine to raise your child in Christ. And I think it best to ask the church for help in this matter.

    I get it--you like to be an iconoclast. But at some point you need to be more agreeable?

  11. #26
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    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    You cannot devote another to Christ. Only they can do that. The whole point of water baptism. You began the process not a ceremony. You know what the law/Jesus says about promises? Wise not to make them. I wouldn't devote my children to anyone or anything. They are not mine to devote to another. Sad practice. You don't will it into being either, you do your duty. I'm not an iconoclast. Never done that before in my life. I do however love the truth and the truth is, at some point you need to be more agreeable and let others state their opinion without accusing them of being something they are not, because the fact is you don't know anything about them, and just because you don't like what someone says doesn't mean they are the problem. Look for that log in your eye and be more agreeable.

  12. #27
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    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    You cannot devote another to Christ. Only they can do that. The whole point of water baptism. You began the process not a ceremony. You know what the law/Jesus says about promises? Wise not to make them. I wouldn't devote my children to anyone or anything.
    Dedication of a child to God isn't about devoting another to God. It's about the parent devoting themselves to raise the child(ren) and train their child(ren) in the ways of God and making their personal devotion to execute this "duty," public before brethren.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  13. #28
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    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Dedication of a child to God isn't about devoting another to God. It's about the parent devoting themselves to raise the child(ren) and train their child(ren) in the ways of God and making their personal devotion to execute this "duty," public before brethren.
    You're telling the wrong person. I didn't say it. Still, what you've described is a time killer as well.

  14. #29
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    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    You're telling the wrong person. I didn't say it. Still, what you've described is a time killer as well.
    How ?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  15. #30
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    Re: How do we know we have the Holy Spirit?

    How is it not ? The premise of the NT is that we don't do ceremony and ritual of man or that prescribed by the law, unless we're Israeli. It's not in scripture. Don't waste your time. There's real work to do. Quit playing religion.

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