Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 155

Thread: “About The Great Tribulation”

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,412

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    But brother wall,

    Concerning Revelation 7:14 you quoted...

    If the saints referred to are said to have 'come out of' the great tribulation, doesn't it stand to reason that they oft to 'be in' the great tribulation first, before coming out of it?
    Hi brother,

    I'm not sure what "they oft to be" means, but I will briefly explain my posting. Bother Trivalee has, after considering all the evidence, come to the conclusion that there are arguments for both those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and those who believe in a Rapture at the end of the Tribulation. I joined him in this and set forth two paragraphs. The first paragraph very roughly showed proofs that CERTAIN Christians will be raptured before the Great Tribulation. In my second paragraph I laid forth, very roughly, proofs that the bulk of Christianity living at the time will pass through the Great Tribulation. So those in Revelation Chapter 7:9-17 belong to the group who DO pass through the Great Tribulation. I hope that is clear. But in case you mean something else, here is a my basic exegesis of this passage. It reads;

    9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
    10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
    11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
    12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
    13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
    14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
    15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
    16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
    17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."


    Verse 9 makes it clear who they are. They are a group OUT OF all nations and tongues who stand before the Throne of Christ. So if they are "out) OF all nations, they cannot be those nations. They are CONTRASTED to those of verses 1-8 who are clearly of ONE Nation - Israel. They must be a THIRD Party and the only third party in the Bible is the Church. See Ephesians 2:15. Thy are again contrasted to Israel in that while those of Israel ARE numbered at 144,000, this party is CANNOT be numbered by men. This is most probably because only God knows who is reborn or not seeing we have the Wheat and the Tares. They also stand before the Lamb. They also have "white garments". And they hold palm branches in their hands - a Middle Eastern custom to welcome a king, as they did in Jerusalem four days before Jesus was murdered. Those of verse 9 MUST BE CHRISTIANS.
    Verse 10 confirms this because they shout "OUR God"! And again it is confirmed for they declare the One on the Throne as BOTH God and the Lamb - a man. Only Christians hold the deity of the Lamb.
    Verse 11 sets this whole scene in heaven. The angels, 24 Elders and the Four Creatures are ALL occupants of heaven as we see in Chapter 4. Thus, this group have recently been Raptured.
    Verse 12 shows the angles confirming the Deity of the Lamb on the Throne
    Verse 13 shows one of the 24 Elders pose the question who this "multitude" might be and why they are suddenly in heaven.
    Verse 14 shows that the Elder knew. They are those attached to Christ and His blood - Christians. But now we learn WHY they passed through the Great Tribulation. A Garment in Parable is one's works (e.g. Ps.73:6, 109:18; Isa.61:3; Jude 1:23 etc.). In Matthew 22 the guest at the Wedding Feast did everything right except that his Garment did not fit the occasion. He is cast out as NOT FIT for the standing of the Bridegroom. Now we have a deep CONTRAST. In Revelation 19 those who are chosen for Christ's army, AND the subsequent Marriage Feast, did NOT need to wash their Garments in the blood of Christ. In 19:7, "SHE hath made HERSELF ready", and the works, or the "Righteousness" is NOT that of Christ BUT OF THE SAINT (19:8). Those who are "blessed" and who are "chosen" for Christ's army had THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS while those in Chapter 7 had DIRTY GARMENTS - a LACK of THEIR righteousness. The WORKS of the "blessed" were "WHITE" while the works of the "multitude" of Chapter 7 were "dirty" and needed to be washed by Christ to make them worthy even to stand before the Throne in His presence. The "multitude" of Chapter 7 passed through the Great Tribulation because they were NOT ACCOUNTED WORTHY to "escape and stand before the Son of man" BEFORE the Great Tribulation.
    Verse 15 adds something to this disaster. The "multitude" of Chapter 7 are NOT "Guests" but "SERVANTS", and they are NOT "Soldiers" going forth to fight Armageddon but they must STAY in the Temple night and day.
    Verse 16 shows the scars of the Great Tribulation. They hungered, but now shall hunger no more. They thirsted but now their trial is over and they neither thirst any more. The burning sun of the "Wilderness" of Revelation 12 smote them for 1260 days, but now it is over. And there was other "heat" which is now removed. Truly, the Tribulation might not have killed them, but they are SCARRED by it.
    Verse 17 shows the issue of passing through the Great Tribulation - TEARS! Those 1260 days were unimaginable. They sobbed at their suffering. But now comes an added suffering. They understand why they passed through the Great Tribulation, and there are MORE TEARS. Their TEARS will not cease just because the Tribulation is over. They are in DISGRACE and it is a time of more weeping. If our Lord did not wipe away their tears they would have sobbed uncontrollably.

    This passage of Revelation 7 show unequivocally that the bulk - the "multitude" of Christians, pass through the Great Tribulation. And the reason? THEIR WORKS WERE NOT UP TO STANDARD! They had Christ. They had His blood, They knew Who He was. They would have greeted Him with Palms. They gladly serve Him afterwards. But their WORKS were such that they were found NOT WORTHY to escape and stand before the Son of Man while these things came to pass ON EARTH.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Central Iowa, USA
    Posts
    227

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    One thing the scripture presupposes is that folks who are reading the NT have a good familiarity with the OT. Just like those who are set to attend High School, it is assumed that they already attended Grade School. After all, the 404 verses of Revelation have relevance to over 800 OT passages. John assumed the readers of Revelation would have already taken the time to become familiar with the Tanakh (OT).

    The OT has a lot to say on the end times. And surprisingly, quite a bit to say about the righteous being hidden away during that final period. So much so that it has striking allusions that the righteous are hidden where the Lord is during that time, not just protected in some cavern somewhere. I have grown more fond of seeing the pre-trib position supported in the OT than just banding about the same NT passages. About the only thing the OT doesn't discuss is how it happens. That is where Paul comes in by showing us that mystery (something not revealed before) that the redeemed will be changed in a moment and caught up.

    And given that the Bereans were commended by the Holy Spirit for searching the scriptures daily (Tanakh was all they had) regarding what Paul was teaching them, it would seem that one would find quite a bit of supporting passages in the OT for a pre-trib position. And indeed, there is quite a bit of support.

    And that goes along with the Torah prescription that a matter can only be determined on the testimony of two or more witnesses. And the OT and NT are pretty strong witnesses. So I have generally applied the concept that for any doctrine to be substantiated, it must have supporting witness from both the OT and NT. Saves a lot of chasing one's tail around. The only doctrinal position we can take by not applying the OT is those rare instances where we are told in the NT that what is being presented is a mystery, something not brought out before.
    Israel.... the Believer's insurance policy!

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,334
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    We must make a difference where scripture makes a difference. One IS a THIEF, and the other comes AS a Thief. One possesses the intrinsic nature of a thief and comes to steal FROM you what is yours. The other is LIKE a Thief in that He takes something VALUABLE - an overcoming Christian!
    So in the days of Noah ...who was taken?

    THE WICKED!

    So if the days of Noah are as when the son of man comes who will be taken?

    Read the following verse carefully...

    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,412

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    So in the days of Noah ...who was taken?

    THE WICKED!

    So if the days of Noah are as when the son of man comes who will be taken?

    Read the following verse carefully...

    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Verse 39; "taken". Greek - "airo" meaning "Taken in judgement" In John 15:2 it is used in the Lord's statement, "Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit, He taketh it away." (Vine)

    Verse 40 "taken". Greek - "paralambano" meaning "to take as an associate or intimate companion". In Matthew 1:20 it reads; "But while he (Joseph) thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."

    • The world will be, like Noah's time, TAKEN in judgement.
    • Those who are "taken" by the Lord are taken because they are intimate companions of His. Since our Lord Jesus is still in the clouds, so also then those "taken" as companions
    • Not all Christians are intimate with the Lord as Laodicea shows. They will be "LEFT"

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,974
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Keraz,
    Where you fail to get people to agree is your blanket denial of rapture.
    I agree with you that we are not raptured to the third heaven.
    However scripture shows that the clouds are counted as being part of the heavens (plural).
    We definitely DO rapture into that heaven, where we meet Jesus (in the clouds).

    So it is a VERY SOUND incontrovertible doctrine that we are raptured and further that this rapture takes us to heaven.
    Where you have a valid point, but what you lose people on, is in the need to clarify that rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds is not Heaven (where God is now, and what is called the 3rd heaven).
    Thanks FHG.
    Pauls prophecy in 1 Thess 4:15-17, is about the Return of Jesus to the earth. He comes from heaven and those who remain are transported to Him, initially in the clouds, that is: in the earths atmosphere. Then on to Jerusalem for the Millennium.
    But there are other aspects of this, where we do not have much information. The Marriage supper of the Lamb, for example, Revelation 19:7-9, that seems to happen before Jesus touches down and He destroys the armies of the Anti-Christ, chaining him up.

    What is clear is; there is no going to heaven; God's dwelling place, for those Christians who remain, who I see as mainly those who were taken to safety 1260 days before. Revelation 12:14

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,149
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    One thing the scripture presupposes is that folks who are reading the NT have a good familiarity with the OT. Just like those who are set to attend High School, it is assumed that they already attended Grade School. After all, the 404 verses of Revelation have relevance to over 800 OT passages. John assumed the readers of Revelation would have already taken the time to become familiar with the Tanakh (OT).

    The OT has a lot to say on the end times. And surprisingly, quite a bit to say about the righteous being hidden away during that final period. So much so that it has striking allusions that the righteous are hidden where the Lord is during that time, not just protected in some cavern somewhere. I have grown more fond of seeing the pre-trib position supported in the OT than just banding about the same NT passages. About the only thing the OT doesn't discuss is how it happens. That is where Paul comes in by showing us that mystery (something not revealed before) that the redeemed will be changed in a moment and caught up.

    And given that the Bereans were commended by the Holy Spirit for searching the scriptures daily (Tanakh was all they had) regarding what Paul was teaching them, it would seem that one would find quite a bit of supporting passages in the OT for a pre-trib position. And indeed, there is quite a bit of support.

    And that goes along with the Torah prescription that a matter can only be determined on the testimony of two or more witnesses. And the OT and NT are pretty strong witnesses. So I have generally applied the concept that for any doctrine to be substantiated, it must have supporting witness from both the OT and NT. Saves a lot of chasing one's tail around. The only doctrinal position we can take by not applying the OT is those rare instances where we are told in the NT that what is being presented is a mystery, something not brought out before.
    This is correct, to a degree.
    However most of the OT references are to Israel and NOT the church.
    Importantly BEFORE Israel is hidden away it faces a calamitous day - also known as the Day of Jacob's Trouble, and IF they survive this then they may flee to the place of safety.
    There is NO OT reference to the church being protected nor is there a single NT reference either. In fact every NT reference states the opposite.

    If you would care to give a single OT reference which speaks of the church being raptured or being protected then that would be the first I have ever known, and I have looked at a few.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,412

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    One thing the scripture presupposes is that folks who are reading the NT have a good familiarity with the OT. Just like those who are set to attend High School, it is assumed that they already attended Grade School. After all, the 404 verses of Revelation have relevance to over 800 OT passages. John assumed the readers of Revelation would have already taken the time to become familiar with the Tanakh (OT).

    The OT has a lot to say on the end times. And surprisingly, quite a bit to say about the righteous being hidden away during that final period. So much so that it has striking allusions that the righteous are hidden where the Lord is during that time, not just protected in some cavern somewhere. I have grown more fond of seeing the pre-trib position supported in the OT than just banding about the same NT passages. About the only thing the OT doesn't discuss is how it happens. That is where Paul comes in by showing us that mystery (something not revealed before) that the redeemed will be changed in a moment and caught up.

    And given that the Bereans were commended by the Holy Spirit for searching the scriptures daily (Tanakh was all they had) regarding what Paul was teaching them, it would seem that one would find quite a bit of supporting passages in the OT for a pre-trib position. And indeed, there is quite a bit of support.

    And that goes along with the Torah prescription that a matter can only be determined on the testimony of two or more witnesses. And the OT and NT are pretty strong witnesses. So I have generally applied the concept that for any doctrine to be substantiated, it must have supporting witness from both the OT and NT. Saves a lot of chasing one's tail around. The only doctrinal position we can take by not applying the OT is those rare instances where we are told in the NT that what is being presented is a mystery, something not brought out before.
    Nicely put. And it is noteworthy that after Revelation Chapter 3 the Church, as such, is never mentioned again. Individual Christians ... yes, but the Church ... no! Israel is pushed to the front since the "Apokalypsis" of our Lord Jesus is the central them of the Apocalypse (Revelation), and His appearing, or "revealing" has to do with Israel's crisis, Mount Olives, Jerusalem, the Temple and the nations that surround them. The first three Chapters show a Lord totally dissatisfied with His Church. The call is for "overcomers". Thereafter, with the apostate Church dismissed, events predicted very much by the Old Testament prophets come into focus.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,974
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    One thing the scripture presupposes is that folks who are reading the NT have a good familiarity with the OT. Just like those who are set to attend High School, it is assumed that they already attended Grade School. After all, the 404 verses of Revelation have relevance to over 800 OT passages. John assumed the readers of Revelation would have already taken the time to become familiar with the Tanakh (OT).

    The OT has a lot to say on the end times. And surprisingly, quite a bit to say about the righteous being hidden away during that final period. So much so that it has striking allusions that the righteous are hidden where the Lord is during that time, not just protected in some cavern somewhere. I have grown more fond of seeing the pre-trib position supported in the OT than just banding about the same NT passages. About the only thing the OT doesn't discuss is how it happens. That is where Paul comes in by showing us that mystery (something not revealed before) that the redeemed will be changed in a moment and caught up.

    And given that the Bereans were commended by the Holy Spirit for searching the scriptures daily (Tanakh was all they had) regarding what Paul was teaching them, it would seem that one would find quite a bit of supporting passages in the OT for a pre-trib position. And indeed, there is quite a bit of support.

    And that goes along with the Torah prescription that a matter can only be determined on the testimony of two or more witnesses. And the OT and NT are pretty strong witnesses. So I have generally applied the concept that for any doctrine to be substantiated, it must have supporting witness from both the OT and NT. Saves a lot of chasing one's tail around. The only doctrinal position we can take by not applying the OT is those rare instances where we are told in the NT that what is being presented is a mystery, something not brought out before.
    Your idea that the Old Testament supports a pre-trib 'rapture to heaven' of God's people, is not correct.
    Here is a list of verses about how the Lord will protect His faithful Christian people thru His terrible Day of fiery wrath. The example is the 3 men in the furnace, Daniel 3:19-27

    Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you who obey Him, it may be that you will be sheltered on the Day of the Lords anger.
    Psalms 23:4 Even if I walk through a valley of darkness, I will fear no harm, for You are with me.
    Isaiah 41:3 For I the Lord, will hold your right hand, saying: fear not, I will help you.
    Isaiah 43:2b…walk thru fire and you will not be scorched, thru flames and not be burned.
    Proverbs 3:25 Do not be afraid when fools are frightened or when destruction overtakes the wicked, for the Lord will be at your side on that Day.
    1 Corinthians 10:13.... God will not test you beyond your powers and when the test comes, He will provide a way out to enable you to endure.
    Psalms 9:10 The Lord does not abandon those who seek Him and trust in Him.
    Psalms 18:3 I shall call upon the Lord, then I will be made safe. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
    Psalms 31:23-24 The Lord protects the faithful. Be strong, all you whose hope is in the Lord.
    Psalms 64:10 The righteous rejoice, their refuge in the Lord.
    Zechariah 9:15-16 The Lord of hosts will protect His people...On that Day, He will save them, like a flock, for they are precious to Him. Isaiah 61:10
    Psalms 37:18-19 The Lord watches over the righteous, when times are bad, they will not be distressed.
    Job 22:30 He will deliver the innocent, because their hands are pure.
    Psalms 91:1-16 ...He will rescue you, you will not fear the terrors abroad.
    Psalms 121:1-8 Our help comes from the Lord, He will guard your life.
    Psalms 109:31 The Lord stands at the right hand of the poor and saves them from trials.
    Isaiah 51:16 I keep you covered under the shelter of My hand.
    Psalms 97:10-12 He keeps His loyal servants safe and rescues them from the wicked.
    Jeremiah 17:7-8 Blessed is anyone who trusts in the Lord, they will be like trees by a stream, when the heat comes it has nothing to fear.
    Nahum 1:7 The Lord is a sure protection in times of trouble and cares for all those who make Him their refuge.
    Psalms 60:4-5 To those who fear the Lord, He will show the way to escape from trouble.
    Psalms 37:9 For evildoers will be destroyed, those who trust in the Lord will prosper in the Land.
    Isaiah 26:20 On that Day, I will come to your aid.
    Daniel 12:1 There will be a time of anguish, but at that time, Your people will be delivered, all those whose names are written in the Book of Life.
    2 Thessalonians 1:7 ...to give you relief when the Lord Jesus comes in blazing fire.
    Joel 3:16 The Lord roars from Zion, the heavens and the earth shudder, but He is a refuge for His people and a defense for Israel.
    Isaiah 65:9b My chosen ones will take possession of the land, those who serve Me will live there.
    Ecclesiasticus 34:13-17 Those who fear the Lord will live, for their trust in Him can keep them safe. The Lord keeps watch over those who love Him, He is their shield and support, a shelter from the scorching wind and the heat of the sun. He raises their spirits and gives healing, life and blessings.
    Reference: Revised English Bible.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,974
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Keraz,
    Where you fail to get people to agree is your blanket denial of rapture.
    I agree with you that we are not raptured to the third heaven.
    However scripture shows that the clouds are counted as being part of the heavens (plural).
    We definitely DO rapture into that heaven, where we meet Jesus (in the clouds).

    So it is a VERY SOUND incontrovertible doctrine that we are raptured and further that this rapture takes us to heaven.
    Where you have a valid point, but what you lose people on, is in the need to clarify that rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds is not Heaven (where God is now, and what is called the 3rd heaven).
    Thanks FHG.
    Pauls prophecy in 1 Thess 4:15-17, is about the Return of Jesus to the earth. He comes from heaven and those who remain are transported to Him, initially in the clouds, that is: in the earths atmosphere. Then on to Jerusalem for the Millennium.
    But there are other aspects of this, where we do not have much information. The Marriage supper of the Lamb, for example, Revelation 19:7-9, that seems to happen before Jesus touches down and He destroys the armies of the Anti-Christ, chaining him up.

    What is clear is; there is no going to heaven; God's dwelling place, for those Christians who remain, who I see as mainly those who were taken to safety 1260 days before. Revelation 12:14

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,149
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Nicely put. And it is noteworthy that after Revelation Chapter 3 the Church, as such, is never mentioned again. Individual Christians ... yes, but the Church ... no! Israel is pushed to the front since the "Apokalypsis" of our Lord Jesus is the central them of the Apocalypse (Revelation), and His appearing, or "revealing" has to do with Israel's crisis, Mount Olives, Jerusalem, the Temple and the nations that surround them. The first three Chapters show a Lord totally dissatisfied with His Church. The call is for "overcomers". Thereafter, with the apostate Church dismissed, events predicted very much by the Old Testament prophets come into focus.
    Sorry but that is simply rubbish. I am surprised at you Walls.
    What you mean is no Church is mentioned by name.
    However the saints are certainly mentioned, many times over, and these are mentioned separately to Israel - such as in Rev 7.
    His appearing is seen in Luke 17, but there is no rapture in Luke 17.
    Also the first three chapters do NOT show a Lord totally dissatisfied with the church. Instead He is dissatisfied with some, and pleased with others and encourages others to do better.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,334
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Verse 39; "taken". Greek - "airo" meaning "Taken in judgement" In John 15:2 it is used in the Lord's statement, "Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit, He taketh it away." (Vine)

    Verse 40 "taken". Greek - "paralambano" meaning "to take as an associate or intimate companion". In Matthew 1:20 it reads; "But while he (Joseph) thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."

    • The world will be, like Noah's time, TAKEN in judgement.
    • Those who are "taken" by the Lord are taken because they are intimate companions of His. Since our Lord Jesus is still in the clouds, so also then those "taken" as companions
    • Not all Christians are intimate with the Lord as Laodicea shows. They will be "LEFT"
    Question......does the resurrection happen before those are taken?

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,974
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Sorry but that is simply rubbish. I am surprised at you Walls.
    What you mean is no Church is mentioned by name.
    However the saints are certainly mentioned, many times over, and these are mentioned separately to Israel - such as in Rev 7.
    His appearing is seen in Luke 17, but there is no rapture in Luke 17.
    Also the first three chapters do NOT show a Lord totally dissatisfied with the church. Instead He is dissatisfied with some, and pleased with others and encourages others to do better.
    Good post, FHG.
    God's holy people are seen in the holy Land when the Anti-Christ conquers them. Revelation 13:7, Daniel 7:25 Remember; there is only one people of God. John 17:20-23

    It is the Christians who make a 7 year peace treaty with the AC, the 'many'; the treaty with Death; Isaiah 28:14-15. This division among the Christians is seen in Daniel 11:32 and in Revelation 12, where those who kept heir faith in God are taken to a place of safety, while those who agreed to it remain.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    9,529

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by emekrus View Post
    For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” Matthew 24:21.

    As we begin to discuss about the great tribulation, it is important we first understand the meaning of the keyword ‘tribulation’ as used in the opening text…

    The word translated as ‘tribulation’ in the opening text, is from the Greek word ‘thlipsis’, meaning—pressure. It means pressure—either literally or figuratively. Other synonyms of the word tribulation as translated in the New Testament are: affliction, anguish, burden, persecution, and trouble.

    All through the ages, since the fall of Adam and Eve, mankind has faced several kinds of tribulation and disaster. Some God-made—by his sovereign ideal; some man-made; and some others, devils’-made…

    Even Israel—the chosen nation of God—also went through tribulations from God as a result of their evil deeds. Then the Church of Christ, since her emergence after the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ, has also suffered tribulations, especially in the form of persecution from non-believers.

    But concerning the great tribulation, the Lord tells us in his own words that the great tribulation is a special kind of tribulation. That has never been experienced since the beginning of the world till the time he was speaking…

    And that the great tribulation will not have its kind after it. Many Christian theologians are divided on their understanding and explanation of the great tribulation as mentioned by the Lord. Especially concerning its features and timing. So in this article, we want to see exactly what the scriptures say concerning the great tribulation.

    The Features of the Great Tribulation

    Having already known the meaning of the word ‘tribulation’, the great tribulation can therefore be explained as a period of great and unusual affliction. On the entire world and its inhabitants. And the major features of the great tribulation from scriptures are as follows:


    1. A Period of Great Deception: “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect”—Matthew 24:24. A major feature of the great tribulation is an unusual emergence of deception.

      Which will be masterminded by the anti-Christ and his false prophet (see 2 Thessallonians2:9-11; Revelation 13:13-15) the bible says the deceptions at the great tribulation will be so strong that if it were possible, the very elect of God shall also be deceived.
    2. A Period of Great Persecution of the Saints: “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues and nations”—Revelation 13:7 (see also Daniel 8:24).

      Another prominent feature of the great tribulation is an unusual persecution of the Church. Yes, the church and saints of God of all ages have been persecuted and even martyred in large scale. But the persecution of the saints at the great tribulation will be far greater.

      The world will be subjected to many kinds of idolatry and rituals of which anyone that fails to follow suit, will be killed or ostracised (see Revelation 13:12, 14-15).
    3. A Period of God’s Wrath: The final stage of the great tribulation is a period of unusual disaster from God (Revelation 16:1-14). And this last phase of the great tribulation will happen after the rapture of the Church at the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The bible says the true believers will not partake of God’s wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

      To better understand this fact, the words of our Lord Jesus give us an eye-opener. Here are his exact words: “But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered the ark; and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”—Matthew 24:37-39.

      So amidst the great tribulation, Christ will come and rapture his church and after that, the remaining inhabitants of the earth will face the wrath of God as it was in the days of Noah.

    Admonishment to the Church Concerning the Great Tribulation

    With the above three features of the great tribulation, it is very clear that the saints or believers will partake of the great tribulation. Especially the periods of great deception and persecution. But the believers will not partake of the last phase of the great tribulation which is the wrath of God or the judgement of God.

    However, concerning the great tribulation, the Lord admonishes the believers thus:

    “Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man”—Luke 21:36.

    From the above scripture, the Lord admonishes us concerning the great tribulation to be watchful and prayerful always. So we may be accounted worthy of escaping the things that shall come to pass at the great tribulation so that in the end, we will be able to stand before him—the Son of man.

    Escape as used in the above scripture, can take either of two forms… Either escaping through death or martyr; or escaping through the rapture at the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Those who do not escape the great tribulation will be taken in the tribulation. Either they are taken by the great deception or are taken by the great persecution through personal subjection…

    And that is why the Lord admonishes us to be watchful and prayerful always. Because it’s only through these two spiritual tools we would be able to escape the great deception and persecution of the end-time at the great tribulation…

    And finally be able to stand before our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ in paradise forever.

    Remain Blessed!

    Emeke Odili
    There is a lot of misunderstanding about exactly what the Great Tribulation is. I believe it is defined in Dan 12 and in the Olivet Discourse. It is *not* "earthquakes, and famines," and all of the signs prior to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It is not the false Christs and false Prophets of Jesus' generation, as Jewish messiahs attempted to prod Jews into fighting against Rome or into following them in their cults.

    So what is the Great Tribulation? It is the Jewish Diaspora of the NT age, which began after 70 AD, when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. Jews, in large numbers, lost their homeland, and ended up far from the Promised Land. It became an age of Jewish wandering. Those among them who had turned to Christ suffered not just the loss of their homeland, but also the acceptance of their own people. Christians suffered persecution, not just from their own countrymen, but also from pagan nations, who did not like them.

    This is the Great Tribulation, and it is unlike anything in history precisely because of its length of time--not because of the severity of the suffering. How can one compare the Holocaust with the Roman massacre of Jews in 70 AD? Suffering is suffering. But when Jews are subjected to homelessness in foreign countries, where they are treated with suspicion and persecuted, this constitutes a continuing tribulation, which for length of time is unprecedented in history. Compared with the 70 years of Babylonian Captivity, the entire NT age of Jewish sufferings absolutely dwarfs it for length of time!

    Some people like to say that the Great Tribulation is merely the last 3.5 years or 7 years of the age. But that is actually the last stage of the Great Tribulation--just before the Jewish People are restored. That period will indeed be trouble for both Jews and Christians, who reject the Antichrist. But this period will actually bring the age-long tribulation of the Jews to an end. This last 3.5 year period of time we may legitimately call the Reign of Antichrist--not the Great Tribulation.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,974
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    There is a lot of misunderstanding about exactly what the Great Tribulation is. I believe it is defined in Dan 12 and in the Olivet Discourse. It is *not* "earthquakes, and famines," and all of the signs prior to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It is not the false Christs and false Prophets of Jesus' generation, as Jewish messiahs attempted to prod Jews into fighting against Rome or into following them in their cults.

    So what is the Great Tribulation? It is the Jewish Diaspora of the NT age, which began after 70 AD, when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. Jews, in large numbers, lost their homeland, and ended up far from the Promised Land. It became an age of Jewish wandering. Those among them who had turned to Christ suffered not just the loss of their homeland, but also the acceptance of their own people. Christians suffered persecution, not just from their own countrymen, but also from pagan nations, who did not like them.

    This is the Great Tribulation, and it is unlike anything in history precisely because of its length of time--not because of the severity of the suffering. How can one compare the Holocaust with the Roman massacre of Jews in 70 AD? Suffering is suffering. But when Jews are subjected to homelessness in foreign countries, where they are treated with suspicion and persecuted, this constitutes a continuing tribulation, which for length of time is unprecedented in history. Compared with the 70 years of Babylonian Captivity, the entire NT age of Jewish sufferings absolutely dwarfs it for length of time!

    Some people like to say that the Great Tribulation is merely the last 3.5 years or 7 years of the age. But that is actually the last stage of the Great Tribulation--just before the Jewish People are restored. That period will indeed be trouble for both Jews and Christians, who reject the Antichrist. But this period will actually bring the age-long tribulation of the Jews to an end. This last 3.5 year period of time we may legitimately call the Reign of Antichrist--not the Great Tribulation.
    emecrus; I totally disagree with the scripturally unsupported fiction above.
    There will be a Great Tribulation, all as described in Revelation; the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, culminating with Armageddon and Jesus' Return. It will occur in the last 3 1/2 years of this Church age, as stated in Daniel 9:27.....what has been decreed concerning the desolation, will be poured out. I do agree that the AC will rule the world then and it surely has not all happened yet.

    There is no scripture that says the Jewish people will be restored as a nation. Other than what we see at present; in apostasy and facing Judgement.
    Please do not say again they will be, unless you prove it with scripture.

  15. #45

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    There is a lot of misunderstanding about exactly what the Great Tribulation is. I believe it is defined in Dan 12 and in the Olivet Discourse. It is *not* "earthquakes, and famines," and all of the signs prior to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It is not the false Christs and false Prophets of Jesus' generation, as Jewish messiahs attempted to prod Jews into fighting against Rome or into following them in their cults.

    So what is the Great Tribulation? It is the Jewish Diaspora of the NT age, which began after 70 AD, when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. Jews, in large numbers, lost their homeland, and ended up far from the Promised Land. It became an age of Jewish wandering. Those among them who had turned to Christ suffered not just the loss of their homeland, but also the acceptance of their own people. Christians suffered persecution, not just from their own countrymen, but also from pagan nations, who did not like them.

    This is the Great Tribulation, and it is unlike anything in history precisely because of its length of time--not because of the severity of the suffering. How can one compare the Holocaust with the Roman massacre of Jews in 70 AD? Suffering is suffering. But when Jews are subjected to homelessness in foreign countries, where they are treated with suspicion and persecuted, this constitutes a continuing tribulation, which for length of time is unprecedented in history. Compared with the 70 years of Babylonian Captivity, the entire NT age of Jewish sufferings absolutely dwarfs it for length of time!

    Some people like to say that the Great Tribulation is merely the last 3.5 years or 7 years of the age. But that is actually the last stage of the Great Tribulation--just before the Jewish People are restored. That period will indeed be trouble for both Jews and Christians, who reject the Antichrist. But this period will actually bring the age-long tribulation of the Jews to an end. This last 3.5 year period of time we may legitimately call the Reign of Antichrist--not the Great Tribulation.
    Brother Randy,

    From your exegesis its obvious you're a preterist. But my question the people who believes the great tribulation already took place in the 70AD is this...

    What about the immediate following events the Lord promised will follow. Have they also been fulfilled?
    Emeke Odili is a Christian Teacher, Preacher, Author, Writer and Blogger. He has a divinely given vision of practically teaching people how to make success in life through absolute righteousness and faith. Emeke is married to his best friend, Joy. He shares life-transforming articles at his blog: www.righteousfaith.wordpress.com

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Discussion Tribulation, Great Tribulation, and the Wrath of God
    By seeker_truth in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 90
    Last Post: Jun 6th 2018, 05:28 AM
  2. the Great Tribulation and the AoD
    By randyk in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 160
    Last Post: Jan 28th 2018, 03:03 PM
  3. The great tribulation. Only one? Or more than one?
    By divaD in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 183
    Last Post: Feb 14th 2017, 10:31 PM
  4. Information What is the Great Tribulation
    By Vakeros in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: Mar 29th 2013, 10:39 PM
  5. The Great Tribulation
    By jeffweeder in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: Dec 10th 2009, 07:04 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •