Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 153

Thread: “About The Great Tribulation”

  1. #136
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    8,871
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I'm not sure I follow your logic. How can there be several NHNE? It's not like removing and replacing a carpet.
    Unfortunately for BOTH of you, you BOTH recognise that there is something wrong, but are unable to accept the simple explanation that the NHNE (of which there is ONLY one) starts when Jesus returns and changes the whole world.
    The simplest and clearest example is ourselves.
    We are NEW creations, and yet at the same time we are being transformed.

  2. #137
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Durban ,South Africa
    Posts
    7,335

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I'm not sure I follow your logic. How can there be several NHNE? It's not like removing and replacing a carpet.
    It is actually like replacing a carpet. New land. Context could be new land in Israel. They didn't know the earth was a planet so the Greeks did not have a word for planet earth.

    South Africa was a new land under Mandela. Israel was a new land since 1948. And the land will be new at the second coming.

    Yet at the end of the millennium, how much more so, the entire land surface flees away (Rev 20:11).

  3. #138
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,284
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    simple explanation that the NHNE (of which there is ONLY one) starts when Jesus returns and changes the whole world.
    If this is the case and I agree, then how can there be a millennium?

  4. #139
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    8,871
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    If this is the case and I agree, then how can there be a millennium?
    Very easily.
    The NHNE is speaking of a CHANGE in the spiritual world, which then needs to permeate into the PHYSICAL.
    This is why the river of life is needed, along with the tree. Ezekiel 47 explains a bit too.
    After all what is the purpose of the Millennium in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    It is actually like replacing a carpet. New land. Context could be new land in Israel. They didn't know the earth was a planet so the Greeks did not have a word for planet earth.

    South Africa was a new land under Mandela. Israel was a new land since 1948. And the land will be new at the second coming.

    Yet at the end of the millennium, how much more so, the entire land surface flees away (Rev 20:11).
    Except the statements are NOT solely about land.
    It speaks of a new creation and a change in relationship of animals - read Isa 65 to get the picture.

  5. #140
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Durban ,South Africa
    Posts
    7,335

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Very easily.
    The NHNE is speaking of a CHANGE in the spiritual world, which then needs to permeate into the PHYSICAL.
    This is why the river of life is needed, along with the tree. Ezekiel 47 explains a bit too.
    After all what is the purpose of the Millennium in the first place?


    Except the statements are NOT solely about land.
    It speaks of a new creation and a change in relationship of animals - read Isa 65 to get the picture.
    Yes there are a lot of changes on the DOTL, and again 1000 years later.

  6. #141
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    6,380
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    If this is the case and I agree, then how can there be a millennium?
    The millennium starts with the return of Jesus. The NHNE will come at the end of the MK.

  7. #142
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    6,380
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    It is actually like replacing a carpet. New land. Context could be new land in Israel. They didn't know the earth was a planet so the Greeks did not have a word for planet earth.

    South Africa was a new land under Mandela. Israel was a new land since 1948. And the land will be new at the second coming.

    Yet at the end of the millennium, how much more so, the entire land surface flees away (Rev 20:11).
    Incorrect. There's only ONE NHNE and it starts after the millennium.

  8. #143
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,284
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Very easily.
    The NHNE is speaking of a CHANGE in the spiritual world, which then needs to permeate into the PHYSICAL.
    This is why the river of life is needed, along with the tree. Ezekiel 47 explains a bit too.
    After all what is the purpose of the Millennium in the first place?
    Rev 21
    21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



    Again if there is a NHNE when Christ returns (which I agree) then how can there be a millennium in light of the bolded above?

  9. #144
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    6,380
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Unfortunately for BOTH of you, you BOTH recognise that there is something wrong, but are unable to accept the simple explanation that the NHNE (of which there is ONLY one) starts when Jesus returns and changes the whole world.
    The simplest and clearest example is ourselves.
    We are NEW creations, and yet at the same time we are being transformed.
    Fortunately, I am able to discern what these particular scriptures say. If you review the scriptures objectively, no doubt you'll see how impossible it is for your claim to be substantiated.

  10. #145
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Durban ,South Africa
    Posts
    7,335

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Incorrect. There's only ONE NHNE and it starts after the millennium.
    Incorrect. 2 Peter 3 and Isaiah 65 and Isaiah 66 describe a NHNE at the DOTL, which occurs 1000 years before the earth flees away as per Rev 20:11. This is biblical fact, therefore we are required to have the renewal of land more than once due to the two timeframes it is mentioned.

  11. #146
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    8,871
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Fortunately, I am able to discern what these particular scriptures say. If you review the scriptures objectively, no doubt you'll see how impossible it is for your claim to be substantiated.
    Having reviewed the scriptures and you objections what we discover is the following:
    1) There are clear scriptures which 100% show that the NHNE comes when Jesus returns.
    2) There are scriptures which challenge this idea, NOT based upon challenging those scriptures themselves, but other ideas, such as no Temple and no sea or no death.
    3) There is a SINGLE scripture (Rev 20:11) which speaks of a change of the earth and sky when Jesus sits on His throne in judgement.
    4) There are clear scriptures which 100% show that the NJ comes when Jesus returns.

    So the issue is simply reconciling these various issues.
    For me I stick with the 100% clear scripture and work through the questions regarding no temple etc, which I have done and even given as answers for you.
    I have also dealt with the question of 2 NHNEs as this for me makes a nonsense of the first change, making it meaningless.
    This means I have had to deal with the issue raised by Rev 20:11 and have shown that Jesus sits on His throne when He first comes and it is also in judgement (Matt 25). I have shown how this wording therefore makes as much sense if referring to that event, even though John narrates it only later in his chronology. However Rev 21 and 22 goes back to Rev 20 anyway so this is the only reason for considering 2 NHNEs, and I am happy with why John might have written it as he did.

    I certainly do read scripture objectively and as closely as possible to what each says WITHIN its own context.
    You have yet to actually deal with the FACTS regarding Rev 21:1 & 2 where the NHNE is seen and then the NJ is seen. And you haven't dealt with Isaiah 65 & 66 at all.

  12. #147
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    8,871
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Rev 21
    21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
    Again if there is a NHNE when Christ returns (which I agree) then how can there be a millennium in light of the bolded above?
    Also very easily. What is verse 4 referring to?:

    Isa 65:17* “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.*
    Isa 65:18* But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy, and her people to be a gladness.*
    Isa 65:19* I will rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.

    Verse 4 is ONLY referring to the NJ.
    It is ONLY after the Final Judgement that death itself is done away with.

  13. #148
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,284
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Verse 4 is ONLY referring to the NJ.
    Ok, yes I agree that Rev 21:4 only refers to those inside NJ and not in the land surrounding evidenced by the river and trees ect…..Glad to see you noticed this. (hope understanding you correctly)

    However, this does not predicate a need for a millennium. Why can't this be just the start of the eternal kingdom?

  14. #149
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    8,871
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Ok, yes I agree that Rev 21:4 only refers to those inside NJ and not in the land surrounding evidenced by the river and trees ect…..Glad to see you noticed this. (hope understanding you correctly)

    However, this does not predicate a need for a millennium. Why can't this be just the start of the eternal kingdom?
    It is the START of the Eternal Kingdom. However, God fo ris own purpose did NOT chuck Satan into the Lake of Fire with the Beast when Jesus returned. Instead He chose to bind him for that length of time - which presumably is the length of time required to restore the whole world to an Edenic state.
    Yet God allows one final rebellion by those who did NOT chose Jesus BEFORE He returned.
    It is their last chance - follow the Deceiver or flee the Deceiver.
    In the End everyone ends up at Jerusalem.
    Those who follow Satan will attack the camp and the beloved city, whilst those who fled will be in the camp and city awaiting God's deliverance. They have to put their trust in Him.

  15. #150
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,284
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: “About The Great Tribulation”

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    which presumably is the length of time required to restore the whole world to an Edenic state
    Not supported by text, as you say.....presumed.

    Yet God allows one final rebellion by those who did NOT chose Jesus BEFORE He returned.It is their last chance - follow the Deceiver or flee the Deceiver.
    The teaching of a second chance, you know many cultic religions teach this....purgatory? Again very unscriptural.

    God fo ris own purpose did NOT chuck Satan into the Lake of Fire with the Beast when Jesus returned
    .

    "for his own purpose" sounds like for mans purpose to promote this teaching.

    Question, if Satan survives a NHNE ..where was he protected?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Discussion Tribulation, Great Tribulation, and the Wrath of God
    By seeker_truth in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 90
    Last Post: Jun 6th 2018, 05:28 AM
  2. the Great Tribulation and the AoD
    By randyk in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 160
    Last Post: Jan 28th 2018, 03:03 PM
  3. The great tribulation. Only one? Or more than one?
    By divaD in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 183
    Last Post: Feb 14th 2017, 10:31 PM
  4. Information What is the Great Tribulation
    By Vakeros in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: Mar 29th 2013, 10:39 PM
  5. The Great Tribulation
    By jeffweeder in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: Dec 10th 2009, 07:04 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •