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Thread: New Heaven New Earth

  1. #16
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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    The temple Jesus builds is the church
    Which is what the Rev.21:22-24 Scripture shows that I pointed to in final, even while the previous Rev.21 verses show you the existence of the literal... physical... foundation walls of the New Jerusalem city having descended down upon the earth.

    So there will be literal, physical structures on earth involving even the new Jerusalem for after the Millennium. Ezekiel's temple (which has never been built), will be for the 1,000 years future reign by Christ Jesus and His elect on earth.

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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Zechariah 6:12-13 could very well be referring to Jesus building the temple of the church since his first coming. Can you prove biblically that Jesus will also build the Ezekiel temple?
    There is only one new Temple to be built, Jesus will Return in to it and reign from it for the 1000 years, as per verse 13.
    Dave P missed the rest of Zechariah 6:15, Men from far away will come and work on rebuilding the Temple of the Lord……Jesus will motivate and spiritually encourage the construction. Ezekiel 38:29
    This proves two things; There will be a new physical Temple and the Lord's Christian people will build it. Haggai 2:9

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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Zechariah 6:12-13 could very well be referring to Jesus building the temple of the church since his first coming. Can you prove biblically that Jesus will also build the Ezekiel temple?
    All one need do is simply read the Ezekiel 40 thru 47 chapters as written to know that a Millennial sanctuary will be built for Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect over the nations.

    John 14 with the "mansions" in The Father's "house" should have been enough proof anyone would want since that's our Lord Jesus promising His faithful that. But who will accept it as written in connection with the Ezekiel temple instead of trying to spiritualize it like most do? Many brethren tend to spiritualize things written in God's Word they don't understand, or because they are not aware of details given in the OT, and this is a big one...

    John 14:2-3
    2 In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
    KJV



    Where in God's Word does it refer to The Father's "house" to mean a literal building? Well, in The Gospels our Lord Jesus called the then standing temple in Jerusalem as His house (Matt.21:12-13 for one example). But this Isaiah 56 Scripture is actually where Jesus was quoting from about The Father's house...

    Isa 56:7
    7 Even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon Mine altar; for Mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
    KJV



    1. In John 14 our Lord Jesus referred to The Father's "house" in the future tense, after His second coming to gather His Church. Using God's Word to interpret God's Word with at least two or more witnesses reveals the type of "house" our Lord previously referred to was the temple design.

    2. Thus the "mansions", which in the Greek simply means 'abodes', refer to chambers in The Father's "house" that our Lord Jesus mentioned.

    3. Ezekiel 40 thru 47 is the only existing detailed Scripture of a future sanctuary on earth referred to as The Father's "house", and it involves God's River of the waters of life and the tree of life with its many fruits, and leaves for the healing of the nations.


    Oh, but that Isaiah 56 Scripture mentions sacrifices, doesn't it? The Ezekiel example does also. We know our Lord Jesus was the one Perfect Sacrifice for sin for one and all time. But those Ezekiel descriptions of the future holy city on earth is a prophetic detail written back in the OT times, a time when Israel was still under the old covenant with sacrifices. Yet there in John 14, our Lord Jesus is revealing the existence of literal abodes in The Father's "house" for the future, and the chambers of the priests in Ezekiel's temple layout is the only future reference to that.

    So each believer must decide whether or not our Lord Jesus was pointing to the Ezekiel "house", or future Millennial sanctuary in Jerusalem, or some man-made air castle idea created by men's traditions that they say will exist up in the sky with Christ's Church floating in the clouds, which basically is the alternative most often given.

  4. #19
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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    There is only one new Temple to be built, Jesus will Return in to it and reign from it for the 1000 years, as per verse 13.
    Dave P missed the rest of Zechariah 6:15, Men from far away will come and work on rebuilding the Temple of the Lord……Jesus will motivate and spiritually encourage the construction. Ezekiel 38:29
    This proves two things; There will be a new physical Temple and the Lord's Christian people will build it. Haggai 2:9
    Zechariah 6 is referring to the rebuilding of the second temple by the priest Joshua son of Jozadak . In the past prophets and kings had ruled Israel, this was the first time priests were in charge, thus Joshua was a symbolic example pointing towards Jesus, priest and king to the church, building the church.

    Take the silver and gold and make a crown, and set it on the head of the high priest, Joshua son of Jozadak.[d] 12 Tell him this is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and he will branch out from his place and build the temple of the Lord. 13 It is he who will build the temple of the Lord, and he will be clothed with majesty and will sit and rule on his throne. And he[e] will be a priest on his throne. And there will be harmony between the two.’

    Haggai 2 is also referring to Joshua son of Jozadak of the second temple, not the third temple.
    Joshua son of Jozadak, the high priest. Be strong, all you people of the land,’ declares the Lord, ‘and work. For I am with you,’ declares the Lord Almighty. 5 ‘This is what I covenanted with you when you came out of Egypt. And my Spirit remains among you. Do not fear.’ 6 “This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘In a little while I will once more shake the heavens and the earth, the sea and the dry land. 7 I will shake all nations, and what is desired by all nations will come, and I will fill this house with glory,’ says the Lord Almighty. 8 ‘The silver is mine and the gold is mine,’ declares the Lord Almighty. 9 ‘The glory of this present house will be greater than the glory of the former house,’

    The only reason the glory of the second temple was greater than the glory of the first temple, is that Jesus was there. Jesus who shakes the nations. God himself arrived in physical form into the temple.

    None of this is any evidence that Christians will rebuild the third temple. But who knows , if Trump starts rebuilding the temple, Christians most likely will get involved. I wont. I see no need for a temple during this age when we are the temple.

  5. #20
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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    There is only one new Temple to be built, Jesus will Return in to it and reign from it for the 1000 years, as per verse 13.
    Dave P missed the rest of Zechariah 6:15, Men from far away will come and work on rebuilding the Temple of the Lord……Jesus will motivate and spiritually encourage the construction. Ezekiel 38:29
    This proves two things; There will be a new physical Temple and the Lord's Christian people will build it. Haggai 2:9
    Well, actually the orthodox Jews plan to build a third temple in our day. it will be for the time of the coming "great tribulation", because for the "abomination of desolation" to occur, it requires a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem. The Daniel 11 Scripture reveals its existence.

    The Ezekiel temple layout design is one that will span a much wider area in the holy land than any previous temple has. The oblation area itself will be 60 miles square.

    https://levendwater.org/companion/append88.html

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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by DavePeace View Post
    All one need do is simply read the Ezekiel 40 thru 47 chapters as written to know that a Millennial sanctuary will be built for Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect over the nations.

    John 14 with the "mansions" in The Father's "house" should have been enough proof anyone would want since that's our Lord Jesus promising His faithful that. But who will accept it as written in connection with the Ezekiel temple instead of trying to spiritualize it like most do? Many brethren tend to spiritualize things written in God's Word they don't understand, or because they are not aware of details given in the OT, and this is a big one...

    John 14:2-3
    2 In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
    KJV



    Where in God's Word does it refer to The Father's "house" to mean a literal building? Well, in The Gospels our Lord Jesus called the then standing temple in Jerusalem as His house (Matt.21:12-13 for one example). But this Isaiah 56 Scripture is actually where Jesus was quoting from about The Father's house...

    Isa 56:7
    7 Even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon Mine altar; for Mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
    KJV



    1. In John 14 our Lord Jesus referred to The Father's "house" in the future tense, after His second coming to gather His Church. Using God's Word to interpret God's Word with at least two or more witnesses reveals the type of "house" our Lord previously referred to was the temple design.

    2. Thus the "mansions", which in the Greek simply means 'abodes', refer to chambers in The Father's "house" that our Lord Jesus mentioned.

    3. Ezekiel 40 thru 47 is the only existing detailed Scripture of a future sanctuary on earth referred to as The Father's "house", and it involves God's River of the waters of life and the tree of life with its many fruits, and leaves for the healing of the nations.


    Oh, but that Isaiah 56 Scripture mentions sacrifices, doesn't it? The Ezekiel example does also. We know our Lord Jesus was the one Perfect Sacrifice for sin for one and all time. But those Ezekiel descriptions of the future holy city on earth is a prophetic detail written back in the OT times, a time when Israel was still under the old covenant with sacrifices. Yet there in John 14, our Lord Jesus is revealing the existence of literal abodes in The Father's "house" for the future, and the chambers of the priests in Ezekiel's temple layout is the only future reference to that.

    So each believer must decide whether or not our Lord Jesus was pointing to the Ezekiel "house", or future Millennial sanctuary in Jerusalem, or some man-made air castle idea created by men's traditions that they say will exist up in the sky with Christ's Church floating in the clouds, which basically is the alternative most often given.
    I see how you build your case, but God is omnipresent. God's presence can be in three separate places, inside an actual temple, inside believers, and in heaven which is the fathers house. You try and overlap these places which isn't necessary.

    The rituals surrounding Ezekiel's temple involve death, and therefore speak of a mortal nation
    We are citizens of the Jerusalem above, the eternal city, not the Jerusalem described in Ezekiel 40-48

  7. #22
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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Zechariah 6 is referring to the rebuilding of the second temple by the priest Joshua son of Jozadak . In the past prophets and kings had ruled Israel, this was the first time priests were in charge, thus Joshua was a symbolic example pointing towards Jesus, priest and king to the church, building the church.
    That's one idea by many scholars, but how is it they miss that the "BRANCH" there is to be both a king and priest ruling upon the throne over Israel? So what the Zech.6 Scripture serves as is as a 'type' for Messiah, for only our Lord Jesus is the true BRANCH of Scripture...


    Isa 11:1-5
    11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
    2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
    3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
    4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
    5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
    KJV

    Jer 23:5-6
    5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
    KJV

  8. #23
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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I see how you build your case, but God is omnipresent. God's presence can be in three separate places, inside an actual temple, inside believers, and in heaven which is the fathers house. You try and overlap these places which isn't necessary.

    The rituals surrounding Ezekiel's temple involve death, and therefore speak of a mortal nation
    We are citizens of the Jerusalem above, the eternal city, not the Jerusalem described in Ezekiel 40-48
    I have to disagree with you, simply because written Scripture disagrees with that.

    I'm not Jewish, I'm not petitioning the return of the old covenant, so you can discard those fears. Nor am I Pre-trib which believes in a separation after Christ's return, with the Church in Heaven, and national Israel on earth with a physical Jerusalem and temple with sacrifices, even though God promised to restore Israel back to the original lands of inheritance, with David as their king (Ezek.37; Acts 1).

    One of the major problem areas for today written in the Ezekiel 40-47 Scripture are the sacrifices. Just because of mention of that many pastors steer clear of those Ezekiel chapters about the future after our Lord Jesus' return. Some of them may read through it, but most of them certainly won't preach it to their congregations. I myself am not tied to their tethers; I have no job in the pulpit to worry about losing, nor a Church organizational pension to worry about. So just because understanding these things aren't popular in the Church, it doesn't mean God left them in the unknown.

    The city which Ezekiel is taken up to see is the same city that John was shown at the end of Revelation. The Ezekiel 48 chapter last verse even declares the future name of the holy city, meaning, 'The LORD is there'.

    Those Ezekiel Scriptures are just way too powerful for me to reject, especially when it is covering the return of God's River of the waters of life back to this earth, and then mentions the tree of life there also. I get intensely interested when I hear about those literal manifestations from God.

    But go in many Churches today and they don't really know that God's River in Revelation will be a literal physical manifestation on this earth, just as was also first shown in Genesis 2 when it flowed out of God's Garden of Eden and fed four rivers upon the earth, of which two of those rivers still exist today. No, the spiritualists will instead teach that River is just a spiritual idea only, because of how our Lord Jesus applied it metaphorically in The Gospels.

  9. #24
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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by DavePeace View Post
    The city which Ezekiel is taken up to see is the same city that John was shown at the end of Revelation. The Ezekiel 48 chapter last verse even declares the future name of the holy city, meaning, 'The LORD is there'.
    I agree with a lot you say, but not with this part. I presume you mean Eze. 8 when you mention the taking up of Ezekiel. However in the New Jerusalem of Rev. 21 there is no temple, so no inner gate or court and no image to provoke. If you mentioned another verse I would like to know which one.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    I agree with a lot you say, but not with this part. I presume you mean Eze. 8 when you mention the taking up of Ezekiel. However in the New Jerusalem of Rev. 21 there is no temple, so no inner gate or court and no image to provoke. If you mentioned another verse I would like to know which one.

    Aristarkos
    My meaning is as it is written in Ezekiel 40...

    Ezek 40:1-2
    40:1 In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the LORD was upon me, and brought me thither.
    2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
    KJV



    Rev 21:2-3
    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    KJV


    Same city.

    The difference is the timing.

    In Rev.20 we are shown the beloved city on earth where the "camp of the saints" exists during Christ's "thousand years" reign. I don't heed men's traditions on that, so I take the Scripture exactly as written about that beloved city being about Jerusalem on earth for that time after Christ's return.

    In Rev.22:14-15 we are shown about the existence of gates of the city where Christ's elect only are allowed with access to the tree of life, while outside the gates dwell the wicked. So what timing is that, even though it's written in the Rev.22 chapter? It's Millennial reign timing, even though it's written in Rev.22.

    So not all things in the Rev.20-22 chapters are in perfect order as to when they happen. When the wicked are no more, I see that as the new heavens and new earth timing. But as long as they exist outside the gates of the holy city, that's Millennial timing. And that's not what timing the no more temple of Rev.21 is. The no more temple idea is only for after... the Millennial reign by Jesus and His elect.

  11. #26
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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Although we are basically derailing the Thread, I would like to add that what stumbles many Christians in the matter of Ezekiel's Temple is the doctrine that believers go to heaven, the rest go to hell and the earth is dissolved. This is a Roman Catholic/Pagan concept and in no way explains the future of men and the earth as revealed by the Bible.

    But if we take the pure revelation of the Bible then man was made to first "subdue" and then "rule" the earth and its immediate environs of sea and sky (Gen.1:26-28). Thereafter unfolds a most magnificent narrative of God thwarting all the destructive plans of His enemies, and ending up with a Man, His Son, Jesus, as King of kings, and the disciples of Jesus who proved themselves loyal to Jesus Christ in all things, as His co-kigs over cities of the earth.

    Now we could go through a myriad of details (after all this revelation takes the whole Bible), but for the purposes of this diversion from the original thread, we have to ask;

    "When our Lord Jesus returns to earth as the Son of David, takes up arms against men who would usurp His rightful ownership of the earth and His city Jerusalem, WHERE WILL THE PHYSICAL MAN JESUS LIVE AFTER HIS VICTORY?"

    Will the new King of the whole earth, beloved of the Father and Maker of the universe, live in a STABLE in Bethlehem? Or will He be upgraded to a brick and mortar house in the suburbs? Or will He dwell in a never-before seen House that is WORTHY of His high position? The answer is not long in coming. The One Whose Name is above every other name, and at Whose Name EVERY knee will bow in heaven, on earth and beneath the earth will dwell in a House that will take the breath away. It is described in the closing Chapters of Ezekiel. And what more fitting Book for this revelation?

    The beginning of Ezekiel is a narrative of a tragedy of immense proportions. The God of the universe is about to vacate His House in His City so that He will not be defiled by Nebuchadnezzar's profane presence. And so, this Great God, Maker and Owner of the universe, departs His House and in the following years, recorded by Daniel, He is NEVER referred to as "The God of Heaven AND Earth". It is, in Daniel, ONLY the God of Heaven, as His House is DESOLATE and He is finally rejected by His People Israel. But while this glorious God can withdraw to save the lives of His opposers, He can not, and will not, relinquish His position as Master of all that is made. So, in the same Book that records His withdrawal from His House, so that He does not have to wipe out all profane men, it is recorded of His coming glory AMONG MEN. His designation is "EMMANUEL", which means "God WITH US". And we know that Emmanuel is none other than the glorified Jesus in His HUMANITY mingled with His DEITY.

    The God-Man Jesus WILL live on earth after His return. He will have a PHYSICAL dwelling. His PHYSICAL dwelling will be a House of RENOWN. And it will be in Jerusalem - "the City of the Great King". And it is to this House that the nations will pour in pilgrimage, not only because it is their duty as ordered by Jehovah (Zech.14:16), but because One MUCH greater than Solomon will dwell there and, "Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD" (Zechariah 8:22), and, "Even them (the Stranger) will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL people" (Isaiah 56:7).

    Where does God, Who is a Spirit, live on earth? In the Temple of every Christian and the House called the Church. Where will Emmanuel, Son of a virgin (Matt.1:23) live when He physically returns to earth to be King of kings? In a House made with hands - the Temple of Ezekiel's closing Chapters. God is a Spirit and dwells in the spirits of the Church members. Emmanuel is a Man and will dwell in a fitting House in Jerusalem, and all nations shall go up to this House to make obeisance to Emmanuel.

  12. #27
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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Only thing I can add to this discussion is how we are getting ready to see wonderful manifestations that the majority thought never possible. The earth changes that will begin with Christ's return is going really surprise the unbelievers. But it is not supposed to be a surprise to us, Christ's Church.

    I include in those future surprised being also about many brethren who have been wrongly taught for most of their lifetime about those future manifestations on earth being spiritual analogies only. God's River of the waters of life is one such example. Even though that River is mentioned in the literal physical sense in Genesis 2, Rev.22, and Ezek.47, it still is taught by some to be only a spiritual metaphor. It is not. The song about gathering by the River will be a real event, on earth.

    It has been the spiritualization by many pastors who lack understanding of those future events to take place on earth that have caused the floating up in the clouds to live concepts, which are against what God's Word declares how it will be. As written in Isaiah 65, we will build houses, plant vineyards, and enjoy the fruits of our labors. God's River will flow out from Jerusalem and waters on earth it comes into contact with will be healed (Ezek.47). That is showing God is going to heal this polluted earth. His consuming fire on the day of the Lord per 2 Peter 3:10 will be the first step in cleansing this old earth. It will wipe man's works off the surface of this earth. Per Isaiah 11, carnivorous animals like the lion will eat straw, the cow and bear shall feed together, so it's even pointing to the brute animal beast nature of this present world being no more. The glory to come cannot be compared to many things existing in today's imperfect world.

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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by DavePeace View Post
    Only thing I can add to this discussion is how we are getting ready to see wonderful manifestations that the majority thought never possible. The earth changes that will begin with Christ's return is going really surprise the unbelievers. But it is not supposed to be a surprise to us, Christ's Church.

    I include in those future surprised being also about many brethren who have been wrongly taught for most of their lifetime about those future manifestations on earth being spiritual analogies only. God's River of the waters of life is one such example. Even though that River is mentioned in the literal physical sense in Genesis 2, Rev.22, and Ezek.47, it still is taught by some to be only a spiritual metaphor. It is not. The song about gathering by the River will be a real event, on earth.

    It has been the spiritualization by many pastors who lack understanding of those future events to take place on earth that have caused the floating up in the clouds to live concepts, which are against what God's Word declares how it will be. As written in Isaiah 65, we will build houses, plant vineyards, and enjoy the fruits of our labors. God's River will flow out from Jerusalem and waters on earth it comes into contact with will be healed (Ezek.47). That is showing God is going to heal this polluted earth. His consuming fire on the day of the Lord per 2 Peter 3:10 will be the first step in cleansing this old earth. It will wipe man's works off the surface of this earth. Per Isaiah 11, carnivorous animals like the lion will eat straw, the cow and bear shall feed together, so it's even pointing to the brute animal beast nature of this present world being no more. The glory to come cannot be compared to many things existing in today's imperfect world.
    All true, well put. We agree on a literal river. Where we differ is that I believe the millenial Israel will be filled with mortal Jews, many verses speak of this mortality during the Messianic era (Isaiah 65, Ezekiel, Zechariah 13). Also the Ezekiel Jerusalem differs from the New Jerusalem, the river flows from the temple..

    The saints rule over these mortal nations as described in Rev 20:4 , and Rev 2:26 , and Daniel 7:27. where will we rule from? Rev 20 refers to the "camp of the saints" in Jerusalem. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city

    The New Jerusalem of Rev 21/22 is a different place, the river flows from the throne, there is no temple. The saints are no longer in any "camp" but live in the New Jerusalem.

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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Although we are basically derailing the Thread, I would like to add that what stumbles many Christians in the matter of Ezekiel's Temple is the doctrine that believers go to heaven, the rest go to hell and the earth is dissolved. This is a Roman Catholic/Pagan concept and in no way explains the future of men and the earth as revealed by the Bible.

    But if we take the pure revelation of the Bible then man was made to first "subdue" and then "rule" the earth and its immediate environs of sea and sky (Gen.1:26-28). Thereafter unfolds a most magnificent narrative of God thwarting all the destructive plans of His enemies, and ending up with a Man, His Son, Jesus, as King of kings, and the disciples of Jesus who proved themselves loyal to Jesus Christ in all things, as His co-kigs over cities of the earth.

    Now we could go through a myriad of details (after all this revelation takes the whole Bible), but for the purposes of this diversion from the original thread, we have to ask;

    "When our Lord Jesus returns to earth as the Son of David, takes up arms against men who would usurp His rightful ownership of the earth and His city Jerusalem, WHERE WILL THE PHYSICAL MAN JESUS LIVE AFTER HIS VICTORY?"

    Will the new King of the whole earth, beloved of the Father and Maker of the universe, live in a STABLE in Bethlehem? Or will He be upgraded to a brick and mortar house in the suburbs? Or will He dwell in a never-before seen House that is WORTHY of His high position? The answer is not long in coming. The One Whose Name is above every other name, and at Whose Name EVERY knee will bow in heaven, on earth and beneath the earth will dwell in a House that will take the breath away. It is described in the closing Chapters of Ezekiel. And what more fitting Book for this revelation?

    The beginning of Ezekiel is a narrative of a tragedy of immense proportions. The God of the universe is about to vacate His House in His City so that He will not be defiled by Nebuchadnezzar's profane presence. And so, this Great God, Maker and Owner of the universe, departs His House and in the following years, recorded by Daniel, He is NEVER referred to as "The God of Heaven AND Earth". It is, in Daniel, ONLY the God of Heaven, as His House is DESOLATE and He is finally rejected by His People Israel. But while this glorious God can withdraw to save the lives of His opposers, He can not, and will not, relinquish His position as Master of all that is made. So, in the same Book that records His withdrawal from His House, so that He does not have to wipe out all profane men, it is recorded of His coming glory AMONG MEN. His designation is "EMMANUEL", which means "God WITH US". And we know that Emmanuel is none other than the glorified Jesus in His HUMANITY mingled with His DEITY.

    The God-Man Jesus WILL live on earth after His return. He will have a PHYSICAL dwelling. His PHYSICAL dwelling will be a House of RENOWN. And it will be in Jerusalem - "the City of the Great King". And it is to this House that the nations will pour in pilgrimage, not only because it is their duty as ordered by Jehovah (Zech.14:16), but because One MUCH greater than Solomon will dwell there and, "Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD" (Zechariah 8:22), and, "Even them (the Stranger) will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL people" (Isaiah 56:7).

    Where does God, Who is a Spirit, live on earth? In the Temple of every Christian and the House called the Church. Where will Emmanuel, Son of a virgin (Matt.1:23) live when He physically returns to earth to be King of kings? In a House made with hands - the Temple of Ezekiel's closing Chapters. God is a Spirit and dwells in the spirits of the Church members. Emmanuel is a Man and will dwell in a fitting House in Jerusalem, and all nations shall go up to this House to make obeisance to Emmanuel.
    I enjoyed your bit of eloquence here, and can sign on with the basic premise that God will *not* abandon the earth. He will live here in physical manifestation, inhabiting His people. And I would imagine that Christ himself will be here as a glorified man at some place on earth--perhaps in the New Jerusalem?

    At the same time Jesus is depicted in his divine essence, as well. So I really don't know how it will be in its full glory. But I like your description of God's basic purpose to have man rule over the earth in His name. Thanks!

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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by DavePeace View Post
    My meaning is as it is written in Ezekiel 40...

    Ezek 40:1-2
    40:1 In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the LORD was upon me, and brought me thither.
    2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
    KJV



    Rev 21:2-3
    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    KJV


    Same city.

    The difference is the timing.

    In Rev.20 we are shown the beloved city on earth where the "camp of the saints" exists during Christ's "thousand years" reign. I don't heed men's traditions on that, so I take the Scripture exactly as written about that beloved city being about Jerusalem on earth for that time after Christ's return.

    In Rev.22:14-15 we are shown about the existence of gates of the city where Christ's elect only are allowed with access to the tree of life, while outside the gates dwell the wicked. So what timing is that, even though it's written in the Rev.22 chapter? It's Millennial reign timing, even though it's written in Rev.22.

    So not all things in the Rev.20-22 chapters are in perfect order as to when they happen. When the wicked are no more, I see that as the new heavens and new earth timing. But as long as they exist outside the gates of the holy city, that's Millennial timing. And that's not what timing the no more temple of Rev.21 is. The no more temple idea is only for after... the Millennial reign by Jesus and His elect.
    You are mistaken, they are different. I think you are unaware of the purpose of the aions (Eph. 3:11) Greek text. This is where you are making the mistake. First lets talk about the cities. Ezekiel is taken to a high mountain and saw a frame or fabric of a city to the south. So the high mountain is not the city. When we look at the Heavenly Jerusalem watch the dimensions: ±1491 miles in length, width and height. Most people consider this way to large but forget God is its Builder and Architect and His thoughts are higher then our thoughts. As you can see from the size it will be higher then any mountain. From this alone we have to conclude the old Jerusalem is meant in Ezekiel, not the New Jerusalem.

    When we study Scripture with an open mind humbling ourselves in front of God it appears God made a purpose of the aions. The words used in Scripture are « olam » (Hebrew) and « aion » (Greek). Both occur in plural and singular.

    These words are usually translated by world, everlasting, for ever, never etc. None of these words describe an aion to what it is. The first thing we have to do is to determine how many aions there are. This is not something that is difficult to find, if you look at the source texts. This is a study on its own, so I'll keep it brief. We live now in the evil aion as Gal. 1:4 says in Greek. Ecc. 1:10 says « Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already in the olamim, which were before us ». So two, now we have three including ours. The disciples ask the Lord: « ... what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the aion », Mat. 24:3, and in Mat. 12:32 « ... neither in this aion, neither in the aion to come ». So that makes 4. In Eph. 3:21 the Greek phrase « eis tou aiona ton aionon » occurs and means in the aion of the aions. This is the 5th aion. Within these five aions God will come to terms with creation and God will be all in all.

    That there are 5 aions is also clear from « to hagion kosmikon » or « the worldly Sanctuary », which depicts the five aions:

    Outside the Outer Court — The first world aion
    Outer Court — The second world aion
    Inner Court — The third world aion
    The Holy — The forth world aion
    The Holy of Holy — The fifth world aion

    Like I said, the current aion is called the evil aion in Gal. 1:4, the fourth is called the Regeneration by the Lord in Mat. 19:28 when He will sit on His throne. The fifth aion we can call the new creation.

    The new Jerusalem comes down from God after the 1000 year reign and after the GWT. This will last much longer then most believe, look at what God says about the 4th aion. Psa. 105:8 — 10 « He hath remembered his covenant for ever (le olam), the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting (olam) covenant ». Even if the 1000 generations span both future aions, the 4th will last much longer then just the 1000 years. You do the math. There is much more to be found on this subject.

    Aristarkos

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