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Thread: New Heaven New Earth

  1. #226
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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    To summarise my position I am saying that the NHNE is merely pointing to renewed land, not a new planet, and which happens TWICE, not once:
    3 verses describe this renewed land at the second coming/DOTL , Isaiah 65 Isaiah 66 and 2 Peter 3 (this renewed land could be mainly pointing to the land of Israel)
    2 verses indicate new land 1000 years later (Rev 20:11 and Rev 21:1)
    The claim that the NHNE will occur twice is an assertion that you have failed to substantiate as a scriptural truth without recourse to conjecture. This argument has been debated extensively and your doctrine of multiple NHNE doesn't have support. As a matter of fact, you are clearly alone in this line of reasoning.

    Trivalee claims there is only one NHNE at the end of the 1000 years. To explain the 3 mentions of a NHNE 1000 years earlier, Trivalee claims the DOTL is extended over a long period and yet has not put forward any proof of this. The day of the Lord gives the impression of being a single day of destruction in Joel 2/Zechariah 14/1Thess 5/2 Peter 3 and many more verses.
    It is regrettable that you failed to recognise that both Isaiah 65 & 66 and 2 Peter 3 speak of the same event. You seem to separate them into different new heavens and earth, hence the basis of your theory. You asserted that I have not presented any proof. However, I have presented a concise argument in several posts #37, #59, #94, #97, #98, #99 and many more highlighting when the NHNE will be ushered in. I don't project theories, but I use scripture to present a clear interpretation of doctrine - something you have not done.

  2. #227
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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The claim that the NHNE will occur twice is an assertion that you have failed to substantiate as a scriptural truth without recourse to conjecture. This argument has been debated extensively and your doctrine of multiple NHNE doesn't have support. As a matter of fact, you are clearly alone in this line of reasoning.



    It is regrettable that you failed to recognise that both Isaiah 65 & 66 and 2 Peter 3 speak of the same event. You seem to separate them into different new heavens and earth, hence the basis of your theory. You asserted that I have not presented any proof. However, I have presented a concise argument in several posts #37, #59, #94, #97, #98, #99 and many more highlighting when the NHNE will be ushered in. I don't project theories, but I use scripture to present a clear interpretation of doctrine - something you have not done.
    I checked those posts, they do not explain your position on Isaiah 65, Isaiah 66 and 2 Peter 3 which all place new land at the second coming.

    In other posts you have claimed that Isaiah 65/66 are general prophecies, and the day of the Lord in 2 Peter 3 is somehow an extended day of the Lord, without giving further explanations for these concepts.

    I see the prima facie context of Isaiah 65 and Isaiah 66 being the blessing of Israel on the new land after the DOTL. I always go with the prima facie meaning if it makes sense.
    I see the prima facie introduction of the new land of 2 Peter 3 occurring on the DOTL as well, not 1000 years later in some extended DOTL.

    To build your case you need to explain what you mean by a "general prophecy" or an "extended DOTL" , none of which can be seen in context, context which places new land at the second coming.

  3. #228
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    Re: New Heaven New Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I checked those posts, they do not explain your position on Isaiah 65, Isaiah 66 and 2 Peter 3 which all place new land at the second coming.

    In other posts you have claimed that Isaiah 65/66 are general prophecies, and the day of the Lord in 2 Peter 3 is somehow an extended day of the Lord, without giving further explanations for these concepts.

    I see the prima facie context of Isaiah 65 and Isaiah 66 being the blessing of Israel on the new land after the DOTL. I always go with the prima facie meaning if it makes sense.
    I see the prima facie introduction of the new land of 2 Peter 3 occurring on the DOTL as well, not 1000 years later in some extended DOTL.

    To build your case you need to explain what you mean by a "general prophecy" or an "extended DOTL" , none of which can be seen in context, context which places new land at the second coming.
    The NHNE in Isaiah 65 & 66 is generalised prophecies in the sense that when taken in conjunction with other events stated in Revelation, it is impossible to place the NHNE at the beginning of the MK. Generalised prophecies are that spoke without an explicit or direct hint to timescale or chronology. For example, in John 5:28-29 and Dan 12:2 Jesus and Daniel both spoke of the resurrection in a general sense. Yet we know that the church and the wicked cannot rise together. So, in 1 Thess 4:16 and Revelation 20, we learn the order of resurrection when those in Christ rise first followed by the wicked a 1000 years later.

    General prophecy is often misunderstood by many while some blatantly deny its existence even though it's there for the discerning to see. In the same way, Isaiah spoke of the NHNE in conjunction with the MK, however, from Revelation we learn that the NHNE and MK/New Jerusalem will not start at the same time:

    1. a. In Rev 21:3 we read that God himself and his tabernacle comes down in the NHNE. Therefore, to argue that NHNE starts with MK automatically places God the Father on earth during the millennial age. But this is not the case because God is in heaven at that time. Example, He sent fire from heaven where he is down to devour Satan and his army after he's released from prison (Rev 20:9).

    1.b. Furthermore, Jesus must reign with his saints in MK before delivering the kingdom to God the Father 1000 years after (1 Cor 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.).

    2. In Rev 20:13 the sea (all body of water on earth) is still present during the 1000 years of millennial rule and at the END of it, yields up all those that drown and made the sea their grave to face judgment at the GWTJ.

    3. But notice that in Rev 21:1 (when the old heaven and earth are replaced by the NHNE) the sea is no more!

    4. Rev 21 and 22, like every other chapter in Revelation, is not in chronology and it will be foolhardy for anyone to interpret the NHNE and holy city in Rev 21 as occurring concurrently.

    Finally, I reiterate that the DoTL transcends a 24hr day; it is an extended timescale that comprises of Jesus Christ' various wraths and judgments against the Christ-rejecting earth. It is my humble opinion that it ends on the Throne Judgment when ALL that offends God is finally judged and cast into the lake of fire. Thus leaving the earth pure and devoid of anything that offends - that is when the Godhead will eventually come down to earth.

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