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Thread: seventh, or the eighth day?

  1. #16
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    Re: seventh, or the eighth day?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    I wasn't the one with the original objection, that probably doesn't help but there it is.

    the OP is to raise the question of whether or not the seventh day is over or not and we are now in the eighth day for reasons posted in the OP.
    It was not the OP that I could not understand. It was your posting #7. If I honestly cannot fathom what you are referring to there, shall I just answer anything? Why not add a few sentences to make it clear. Remember, I'm not in your skin. You might well know what you are talking about, but I need a context.

    But I have a question for you. In Hebrews Chapter 3 and 4 we have a "remaining Sabbath" for the People of God. And we are warned that we could, like God's people before, fail to partake of it. What day is that? It is obvious that it is FUTURE. And if it is a Sabbath, how can we be in it, or even the eighth day?

    Thanks bro.

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    Re: seventh, or the eighth day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It was not the OP that I could not understand. It was your posting #7. If I honestly cannot fathom what you are referring to there, shall I just answer anything? Why not add a few sentences to make it clear. Remember, I'm not in your skin. You might well know what you are talking about, but I need a context.

    But I have a question for you. In Hebrews Chapter 3 and 4 we have a "remaining Sabbath" for the People of God. And we are warned that we could, like God's people before, fail to partake of it. What day is that? It is obvious that it is FUTURE. And if it is a Sabbath, how can we be in it, or even the eighth day?

    Thanks bro.
    sorry, not finding "remaining Sabbath" in KJV in any of Paul's writings and only one case where the word Sabbath is used (Col_2:16* ). so what are you talking about?
    Let there be Light

  3. #18
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    Re: seventh, or the eighth day?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    sorry, not finding "remaining Sabbath" in KJV in any of Paul's writings and only one case where the word Sabbath is used (Col_2:16* ). so what are you talking about?
    It starts in Hebrews 3:7 until 4:1-11. Here is the text, and some comments (obviously a full exposition would be too long)

    7 "Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
    8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
    9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
    10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
    11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
    12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
    13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
    14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
    15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
    16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
    17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
    18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
    19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
    1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
    5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
    6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."


    "Hebrew" means "River Crosser". The background of Hebrews is that the author (unknown, but speculated upon), sends five dire warnings to Christians who converted from Judaism. Under the Law of Moses a man who obeyed God was protected and blessed in the fruit of his loins, labor, length of life and possessions. Now these e-Jews had obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ and found themselves persecuted and getting poorer (see Chapter 10). They naturally said within themselves - "come, let us return to Moses. They way is much better". And from a TEMPORAL point of view, it is. Even our Lord Jesus said in Luke 5:39, in context of the Law, that the "old wine" was better. The Law of Moses promised, and delivered almost immediate blessings, justice and reward. Christianity does not.

    The Church is not like Israel. While Israel was a fixed land with borders that God protected if the Israelites kept the Law, the Church abides in the nations. She is surrounded by enemies and is thus subject to persecution at any time. The Christian must learn to give away his goods and become poor for the gospel's sake. The Christian must turn the other cheek, not claim retribution like the Israelite. All this because the Church is being built in this age to rule the earth in the next age. Now is the time when, for the "ministry of reconciliation", the Christian must forgo wealth, fame and justice. They must follow their Master in poverty, self-denial, injustice, persecutions and even death. The Reward for a Christian is not NOW. It is in the next age. Christ and His disciples are only vindicated and elevated AFTER Christ returns.

    With this REWARD in sight, the author of Hebrews uses history to show the future. It is the Sabbath. Now, little known, only partly accepted, and sometimes rejected out of hand, is the FACT that when God set the TIMES of the six days in Genesis Chapter 1, He gave it as "an evening and a morning" - the Jewish day - sunset to sunset. But when He came to the SEVENTH, the Sabbath, He does NOT define it with "the evening and the morning". He defines it by the length of Adam's life. Adam was the last of the living creatures to be made, so he was probably made late on the sixth day. His first full day would have been the Sabbath. And God's threat was that "IN" the day you eat from this Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, he would die. If we shun private interpretation, and interpret scripture with scripture (2nd Pet.1:20), we have FIVE definitions of a "DAY" in the Bible. They are; (i) the period of daylight - sunrise to sunset (Gen.1:5), (ii) the Biblical solar day - 24 hours, sunset to sunset (Gen.1:13, etc.), (iii) a day is a a year when it comes to prophecy (Nu.14:34, Ezek.4:5-6; Dan.9:24-26), (iv) an event like "the DAY of the Lord", and (v) a day can be 1,000 years (Ps.90:4, 2nd Pet.3:8).

    So if Adam died "IN" the day of eating, and he lived for 930 years, then the first Sabbath is defined NOT by "evening and morning" but by 1,000 years. It is the only "DAY" that fits Adma's years. God was looking for a Sabbath Rest, and the man He put in place did not realize this REST. He failed. The text above is a narrative of God's men failing in every Sabbath up to now, so that God could not have His Sabbath Rest. Adam died with-IN the first Sabbath. Then,coming to the text above, the Holy Spirit shows that the entering and occupying of the Good Land was God's REST. But of the 600,000 Israeli men of war, only TWO entered the Good Land - Joshua and Caleb. the rest died in the Wilderness. So again men failed. Then the text goes with the occupation of the Good Land because God addresses David - a king about 600 years into the occupation of the Good Land. And though David established the Good Land, the Israelites who "ENTERED" this Land ULTIMATELY did not make 1,000 years. It does not matter how you calculate the years from Joshua till Nebuchadnezzar's conquest and deportation of Judah, you will come to a sum of years just short of 1,000 years. God's people failed again in respect of God's REST.

    But God is not to be thwarted. Delayed perhaps, but not thwarted. So God sets aside a NEW Sabbath Rest for Him and His people. And from the text above we learn in 4:9 that God has set aside another DAY for REST - another Sabbath. And this Sabbath is future to the writing of Hebrews (about 67 AD). That is, there will come a DAY, but a DAY defined by 1,000 years, in which God will have His man in place to subdue and rule, and He can REST. That Man of course is "the last Adam" - Jesus Christ. When our Lord Jesus returns He will reign for 1,000 years on the earth as we know it now, with winter, summer, harvest, life and death. After that, God will "RENEW" (lit. Gk.) the earth and Christ will reign on for ever on that earth. But in the text above is the COMING, or REMAINING, or FUTURE Sabbath Rest for God and His People. This is the 1,000 years of Revelation 20. It is God's REST and the Overcomer's REWARD. Our Lord Jesus, and the Overcomers will enter a time of bliss, fame, power and authority over the nations. But some Christians are going to FAIL. This is the warning of Hebrews 3:7 - 4:11!

    Many Parables on the Millennial Kingdom of Heaven show certain of the servants of the Lord to be rewarded, and certain of the Lord's servants to fail. Added to this, direct statements like Galatians 5:20-21 and Ephesians 5:5 show that for evil works and lack of faith, some Christians will not enter that 1,000 year Kingdom. THEY WILL MISS THE COMING SABBATH REST for various reasons. And turning back to Moses and the Law is one of them!

    Finally, the calculation is not difficult. The Old Testament is written so that one can calculate the times from Adam up until Jesus. Darby, for instance, comes to 4002 years. Others are close. The only appreciable difference comes when one student uses prophetic years and another student uses actual years. But within about 100 years they all agree. Adam to Christ was about 4,000 years - 4 DAYS. Then Hosea 6:2 predicts that Israel's chastisement will be 2 DAYS. So, again we must apply the FIVE "days" of scripture - AND ONLY ONE FITS AGAIN. Israel has been under chastisement just under 2,000 years - 2 DAYS. If our lord returns when Israel is ready to be restored, the TIME from Adam to Christ's Second Coming will be 6,000 years - 6 DAYS. Thus, the DAY when God has His Man in place to subdue and rule, will be the 7th DAY - the SEVENTH one-thousand year day.

    In this calculation we, as one above has reported, are living at the end of the 6TH DAY, and face the return of Christ SOON.

  4. #19

    Re: seventh, or the eighth day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    ... if we accept that Christ's reign on earth for the first one thousand years is the SEVENTH, we see that death is not yet defeated...
    And if we accept Christ's reign on earth has been uninterrupted since creation and will have been uninterrupted until He will Come Again, but see that death is defeated since Christ overcame death by his death since "God raised this Jesus whom ye crucified Lord and Christ", and "when He raised Him from the dead enthroned Him at his own right hand ... and gave Him to the Church as Head", so that "they (his saints) lived and ruled with Christ ... on His Throne ... this the First Resurrection-Thousand Years", do we accept the Doctrine of Christ 'on this matter' or not?

  5. #20

    Re: seventh, or the eighth day?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    the seventh day started when God rested from His work:

    Gen 2:2* And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.*
    Gen 2:3* And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
    You are saying, 'the seventh day started when God rested from His work'.

    Then you quote the Bible, saying, "Gen 2:2* And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rest-ed on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.*
    Gen 2:3* And God bless-ed the seventh day, and sanctifi-ed it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God creat-ed and, had done(Nhosrebe)."

  6. #21
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    Re: seventh, or the eighth day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhosrebe View Post
    You are saying, 'the seventh day started when God rested from His work'.

    Then you quote the Bible, saying, "Gen 2:2* And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rest-ed on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.*
    Gen 2:3* And God bless-ed the seventh day, and sanctifi-ed it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God creat-ed and, had done(Nhosrebe)."

    yea, and? what you're going to find some hair to split here?
    Let there be Light

  7. #22
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    Re: seventh, or the eighth day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nhosrebe View Post
    And if we accept Christ's reign on earth has been uninterrupted since creation and will have been uninterrupted until He will Come Again, but see that death is defeated since Christ overcame death by his death since "God raised this Jesus whom ye crucified Lord and Christ", and "when He raised Him from the dead enthroned Him at his own right hand ... and gave Him to the Church as Head", so that "they (his saints) lived and ruled with Christ ... on His Throne ... this the First Resurrection-Thousand Years", do we accept the Doctrine of Christ 'on this matter' or not?
    I'm sorry. I found your statements a bit disjointed. It's probably my fault. So please forgive me if my answer is not what you were seeking. My contention is that as long as there is ONE man dead, then death is not defeated. Only when the last man is resurrected (at the White Throne) is death defeated. Revelation 20:12-13 says;

    12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."


    • In verse 12 the dead "stand" - showing resurrection
    • In verse 13 the sea gave up its dead. These would be the demons because they live in the sea (Matt.8:32, Mk.5:13)
    • In verse 13 "death" delivered up the dead. That is, these dead were owned by death, but death relinquished them. Death relinquished power over them
    • In verse Hadees (lit. Gk), the place where the souls of all dead men go after death, "delivered up" the dead.

    It is true that Christ conquered death by His resurrection, but death still has some hold as long as one man is still dead.

    It is here that finally 1st Corinthians 15:22 comes to pass. "ALL who died in Adam will be made alive".

  8. #23

    Re: seventh, or the eighth day?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    yea, and? what you're going to find some hair to split here?
    No, not to split some hair here, but from start to finish, to split the 24 hours of "the Seventh Day" Genesis 2:2,3, where, from 3:8 "in / with the evening cool of day" its prospective night of 12 hours started, when, with 12 more hours of daylight prospective, God split the Seventh Day and "put a flaming sword at the east of the garden". And it was evening and it was morning "THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE DAY" "and God on the Seventh Day rested from all his works"--including those his works of the Seventh Day in which He had wrought and finished, and blessed and hallowed and had rested. Not in the future is yet to rest!

  9. #24
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    Re: seventh, or the eighth day?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    again in the case of creation who is to say there isn't an eighth day. and that the seventh day isn't over.
    This statement strikes me as strange... based on scripture, WHAT did God do beyond the seven days that are detailed in Genesis? God worked on 6 days and rested on the 7th... afterwhich, the work days for mankind begin their cycle until the next day of rest, 6 days plus the day of rest = seven days only.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


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  10. #25
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    Re: seventh, or the eighth day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    This statement strikes me as strange... based on scripture, WHAT did God do beyond the seven days that are detailed in Genesis? God worked on 6 days and rested on the 7th... afterwhich, the work days for mankind begin their cycle until the next day of rest, 6 days plus the day of rest = seven days only.
    Agreed. Otherwise the 4th commandment given to Moses would only be practiced once.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: seventh, or the eighth day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I'm sorry. I found your statements a bit disjointed. It's probably my fault. So please forgive me if my answer is not what you were seeking. My contention is that as long as there is ONE man dead, then death is not defeated. Only when the last man is resurrected (at the White Throne) is death defeated. Revelation 20:12-13 says;

    12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."


    • In verse 12 the dead "stand" - showing resurrection
    • In verse 13 the sea gave up its dead. These would be the demons because they live in the sea (Matt.8:32, Mk.5:13)
    • In verse 13 "death" delivered up the dead. That is, these dead were owned by death, but death relinquished them. Death relinquished power over them
    • In verse Hadees (lit. Gk), the place where the souls of all dead men go after death, "delivered up" the dead.

    It is true that Christ conquered death by His resurrection, but death still has some hold as long as one man is still dead.

    It is here that finally 1st Corinthians 15:22 comes to pass. "ALL who died in Adam will be made alive".
    That is not the case, I'll re-quote your list:

    • In verse 12 the dead "stand" - showing resurrection
      This is correct

    • In verse 13 the sea gave up its dead. These would be the demons because they live in the sea (Matt.8:32, Mk.5:13)
      Do you have any idea how many people have drowned in the sea since Adam? It is those who are not in the sheol or hades but in the sea that are meant here, drowned people. It BTW nowhere says the demons died in the see, in fact it doesn't say anywhere they die.

    • In verse 13 "death" delivered up the dead. That is, these dead were owned by death, but death relinquished them. Death relinquished power over them
      Death is all that died on land but didn't make it to the sheol or hades, for example those burned or eaten by wild animals.

    • In verse Hadees (lit. Gk), the place where the souls of all dead men go after death, "delivered up" the dead.
      You mean where dead souls — thus people — are burried, this is the normal way, you die they bury you in a grave or hades.


    Aristarkos

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