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Thread: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

  1. #46
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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    It does emphasise the immutability of the word of God, but it is ALSO comparing it with something that WILL happen. Namely heaven and earth will pass away. The one point does NOT negate the other.
    This is not scripture, but grammar and it confirms that the word of God is inerrant. That the heaven and earth will pass away is a fact no one doubts, albeit secondary in the context.

  2. #47
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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    This is not scripture, but grammar and it confirms that the word of God is inerrant. That the heaven and earth will pass away is a fact no one doubts, albeit secondary in the context.
    Yes, but you are ignoring the TRUTH of heaven and earth passing away in relationship to what else is stated.
    God could have simply said, my Word will never pass away. He didn't.

  3. #48
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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Yes they will BOTH rise at the SAME time.
    There is no such thing as general prophecy.

    The NJ and the NHNE do start at the same time. It isn't a problem for me, but for you.

    No you haven't. Every claim you have made I have shown why it is incorrect.

    This is the result of your analogy. If you can't provide a better example...

    No, there is ONLY ONE throne. It is great and white. Jesus doesn't have TWO thrones.
    OK, this is becoming tiresome, I can't continue to repeat myself. So have it your way

  4. #49
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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Yes, but you are ignoring the TRUTH of heaven and earth passing away in relationship to what else is stated.
    God could have simply said, my Word will never pass away. He didn't.
    If you say so.

  5. #50
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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    If you say so.
    It wasn't me saying it, but scripture! If it was just me then you can feel free to ignore it.

  6. #51
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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Wow.
    I am repeating back what you are saying. I will quote you from post #13:

    I am not putting a single word in your mouth.
    You typed it and put it up.
    Now if you didn't mean to say it, or didn't mean it that way, then please clarify.
    Here is what you said to me, and I did a direct copy & paste:

    Incorrect.
    Read Isaiah 65 & 66:
    Isa 65:17* “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.*
    Isa 65:18* But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy, and her people to be a gladness.*
    Isa 65:19* I will rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.*

    Isa 66:22* “For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain.*
    Isa 66:23* From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.*
    I stated those verses about the new Jerusalem are for AFTER the GWT Judgment, after Christ's future "thousand years" Millennial reign! My response was this...

    "The new Jerusalem definitely is a post-Millennial event associated with the new heavens and a new earth. It doesn't come to earth until Christ's future Millennial reign is over, including God's GWT Judgment with the destruction of the wicked and death into the "lake of fire". We should never confuse those two times, for the wicked will not see God's Eternity of the new heavens and a new earth."


    You said I was "Incorrect". I am not incorrect. God's new heavens and a new earth event is for AFTER Christ's Millennial reign over the wicked. That is clear from the Rev.20 Scripture.

    But you say instead (my bold emphasis added):

    I am PreMil Post-Trib and scripture is very clear. There is an NHNE when Jesus returns.
    And that is a false... statement. The new heavens and new earth does NOT begin with Jesus' return. If that were true, then it would mean there will be no "thousand years" reign by Jesus and His elect as written in Revelation 20. Therefore, you are placing your soul under this warning by Jesus:

    Rev 22:19
    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    KJV


    Furthermore, you are NOT holding to a pre-mill position, because pre-mill understands Jesus will return BEFORE the Millennium of Rev.20.

  7. #52
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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    OK, this is becoming tiresome, I can't continue to repeat myself. So have it your way
    I am not interested in having it my way. I am waiting for you to EITHER show that there is some scripture which means they are NOT at the same time, so that I will learn to change my view, OR that you acknowledge the scriptures which show they are at the same time.
    Otherwise it is all pointless.

  8. #53
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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by DavePeace View Post
    Here is what you said to me, and I did a direct copy & paste:
    I stated those verses about the new Jerusalem are for AFTER the GWT Judgment, after Christ's future "thousand years" Millennial reign! My response was this...
    "The new Jerusalem definitely is a post-Millennial event associated with the new heavens and a new earth. It doesn't come to earth until Christ's future Millennial reign is over, including God's GWT Judgment with the destruction of the wicked and death into the "lake of fire". We should never confuse those two times, for the wicked will not see God's Eternity of the new heavens and a new earth."
    You said I was "Incorrect". I am not incorrect. God's new heavens and a new earth event is for AFTER Christ's Millennial reign over the wicked. That is clear from the Rev.20 Scripture.
    But you say instead (my bold emphasis added):
    And that is a false... statement. The new heavens and new earth does NOT begin with Jesus' return. If that were true, then it would mean there will be no "thousand years" reign by Jesus and His elect as written in Revelation 20. Therefore, you are placing your soul under this warning by Jesus:
    Rev 22:19
    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    KJV
    So now you are going back to saying that the NHNE and the NJ of BOTH Isaiah 65 & 66 and Rev 21 & 22 are BOTH the SAME thing and AFTER the GWToJ.
    That is what I originally said you were claiming and you said I was putting words into your mouth.

    You are indeed incorrect.
    Yet perhaps you are not clear as to why you are incorrect, or why I am saying this.
    Are you trying to say that these verses are NOT in connection with the NHNE of Isaiah 65?
    Isa 65:19* I will rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.*
    Isa 65:20* No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.*
    Isa 65:21* They shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.*
    Isa 65:22* They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.*
    Isa 65:23* They shall not labor in vain or bear children for calamity, for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the LORD, and their descendants with them.*
    Isa 65:24* Before they call I will answer; while they are yet speaking I will hear.*
    Isa 65:25* The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain,” says the LORD.*

    Please explain, so that everyone can understand what you are really saying, WHEN these verses find their fulfillment.
    Are you saying that these are AFTER the GWToJ as you seem to be saying above?
    Are you putting them as occurring DURING the MK as I do, in which case how can you divorce verse 20 from verse 19?
    A logical clear contextual explanation would be useful.

  9. #54
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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    It wasn't me saying it, but scripture! If it was just me then you can feel free to ignore it.
    Scripture didn't say what you claim and you know it.

  10. #55
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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Actually we don't always accept CONTEXT and jump to PRETEXT.
    Yet HOW can we understand anything without understanding other things. This is the nub of the problem.
    The CONTEXT is 100% ironclad that the NJ is part of the NHNE:
    Rev 21:1* And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.*
    Rev 21:2* And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.*

    Are you REALLY arguing that the NJ mentioned in verse 2 is NOT part of what is stated in verse 1?
    Does your NHNE that starts from the beginning of the MK cover the whole earth or just the NJ?

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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I am not interested in having it my way. I am waiting for you to EITHER show that there is some scripture which means they are NOT at the same time, so that I will learn to change my view, OR that you acknowledge the scriptures which show they are at the same time.
    Otherwise it is all pointless.
    I have provided several scriptures that clearly show your position is impossible. But as usual, as long as it doesn't agree with you, you won't accept it.

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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Scripture didn't say what you claim and you know it.
    Actually scripture does say, but you choose not to acknowledge it as you have other scripture which seems to point to something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I have provided several scriptures that clearly show your position is impossible. But as usual, as long as it doesn't agree with you, you won't accept it.
    Which ones?
    Every objection you have raised I have explained how that objection is met.
    You have NOT subsequently said why the way I met the objection was invalid. Instead you simply repeated yourself - which I think we agree is pointless for either of us to do.

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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Does your NHNE that starts from the beginning of the MK cover the whole earth or just the NJ?
    This is best answered with the question - when you became a NEW creation was it all of you or just your heart?

    You see the NHNE means the ENTIRE world system, BOTH in the heavenlies AND on the earth - that is the Dominion of Man and the principalities and powers in the sky - have been overturned and broken. They have been smashed just like the statue in Dan 2.
    It isn't about an individual kingdom, but the entire edifice of kingdoms of Man.
    This is broken in an instant as it were when Jesus returns. Those powers and systems are ALL gone, to never return.

    However the nations themselves have not ceased existing, nor have the consequences of what has happened all been remedied.
    Therefore there is a period of time for the world to be renewed starting from Jerusalem.
    This period of time lasts 1,000 years, and as the ends of the world are changed, so then Satan is allowed to return in order to test and refine the world one last time, followed by the final judgement.

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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Actually scripture does say, but you choose not to acknowledge it as you have other scripture which seems to point to something else.

    Which ones?
    Every objection you have raised I have explained how that objection is met.
    You have NOT subsequently said why the way I met the objection was invalid. Instead you simply repeated yourself - which I think we agree is pointless for either of us to do.
    Your objection is merely a repetition of the same false interpretation of the NHNE which you hold.

  15. #60
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    Re: The Millennial Age, New Jerusalem & the NHNE expalined

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    This is best answered with the question - when you became a NEW creation was it all of you or just your heart?

    You see the NHNE means the ENTIRE world system, BOTH in the heavenlies AND on the earth - that is the Dominion of Man and the principalities and powers in the sky - have been overturned and broken. They have been smashed just like the statue in Dan 2.
    It isn't about an individual kingdom, but the entire edifice of kingdoms of Man.
    This is broken in an instant as it were when Jesus returns. Those powers and systems are ALL gone, to never return.

    However the nations themselves have not ceased existing, nor have the consequences of what has happened all been remedied.
    Therefore there is a period of time for the world to be renewed starting from Jerusalem.
    This period of time lasts 1,000 years, and as the ends of the world are changed, so then Satan is allowed to return in order to test and refine the world one last time, followed by the final judgement.
    If only you can see the holes in your argument, this discussion wouldn't be so tedious. You had initially asserted that the NHNE will only be in NJ, I'm glad you've seen how that view is impossible by revising it to encompass the whole world. However, you still have a problem. Now, you've accepted that NHNE covers the world when it starts, how do you reconcile Rev 21:4 that says there's no death and sorrow in the NHNE?

    1. Remember that the NHNE is not the same as NJ where death will not exist in the MK?
    2. According to you, the NHNE covers the whole world. Therefore, it cannot start when you claim since death and sorrow remain in the world during the MK.

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