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Thread: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

  1. #91
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    You know...I think you've read something into this that I haven't said. NONE are in His will or will come to The Father unless and until they are born again. Christ's work on the cross was so that all and whoever believes upon Him would be saved..."for God so loved the world..."

    Israel was set apart by God before the New Covenant and led the way to Christ coming. Israel is still a part of God's plan but they are out of His will and are partially blinded ( meaning they still have faith in God the Father but reject Christ ) to the fullness of what God has done ( Christ, the cross and the New Covenant ) and revealed to us.

    Their branch ( the natural ) has been broken off and The Church ( the wild ) has been grafted in. When Christ returns they ( the remnant ) will finally accepte Him and be grafted back in.

    Until that time all who accept Christ and become born again enter The Church - Jew and Gentile alike. There is no difference between them as far as salvation and grace under the New Covenant.
    Okay I see why we see things differently is because I believe more in an amil position and therefore see no special dispensation for Israel. Peace Brother.

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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    When I read the entire passage in Matthew 21 where Jesus is talking to the religious leadership - that's what I see. He is talking to the religious leadership of the day and telling them that if they keep rejecting him that they would not be the religious leaders of the kingdom of God anymore - someone else would.

    What I don't see is where Jesus is talking about a "virtual demise" of the House of Judah.

    The same thing with Matthew 8. I don't see Jesus telling these men that Jews as Jews will be cast out. He is using the faith of the Centurion soldier to help them understand that people from ALL nations will be saved. He is telling them something that their ethnicity is not an automatic claim to the kingdom of God. Some of them banked on that and they were wrong.

    A "virtual demise" sounds like your are saying that Jesus was saying that all Jews will perish and the nation will perish.

    Countless Jews have come to Christ. Countless more will. Some of those very men he was talking to were eventually saved - read Acts 15.
    But you avoid the many prophesies ,OT and NT, that plainly state a decimation of Judah. Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Romans 9:27, +
    I have been to Israel and have attended the Christ's Church and Kingdom Ministries in Jerusalem. There were, in 2014 about 15,000 Messianic Jews. Maybe now say; 20,000, that is .01 of the 20 million Jews worldwide. Not a nation anymore and as the Prophets say, they will join their Christian brethren in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5

  3. #93
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    The Church is not Israel. Never was, never will be.
    I NEVER SAID IT WAS.
    The faithful ekkelasia, congregation, church, consists of every born again Christian.
    Israel is currently the Jewish State. Never the twain shall meet.

    But soon the Jewish State will be no more, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Amos 2:4-5, Romans 9:27 and then all of the holy Land will be inhabited by every faithful Christian; the real Israelites of God.

  4. #94
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Oh come on. Even Christians do circumcision these days. It has nothing to do with the Law of Moses. I already told you my argument was about IDENTITY, not salvation. Is there a law now NOT to circumcise? Would you force feed an early Jewish Christian pork? Let's not get legalistic about this.

    Muslim's don't circumcise because of Moses. They do because of Abraham. That was my point, but you seem to be offended by that?
    I understood you to be saying that circumcision gives Jews their identity. To me it is not and the reason they do it is because the law demands it. Many other nations/people do circumcision, but it is not what gave them their identity. It is a tradition or medical reason or any other reason. The point I was trying to make is that circumcision is no longer demanded by God no matter if you are Jew or Gentile. If you practice circumcision because of the law then you are under the law and not under grace. According to my understanding this is still the case with most Jews.

    The new testament made it clear that we believers are children of Abraham, but we do not have to be circumcised. Why are you offended if we proclaim this truth to all?

  5. #95
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Oh well, I guess that answers why Messianic Jews exist these days. You need to re-think this. ANYONE can come to Christ at ANY TIME. Why would you want to shut the door on someone? God doesn't.
    I do not know how you come to this conclusion. It is definitely not my view point. It is in fact the opposite, none are blinded any more.

  6. #96
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Isaiah 22 and that middle passage is about God taking his hand off of Judah and a battle ensuing and the people trying in their own efforts to succeed. They did everything they could except for the one thing that they should - cry out to God. God said that they would die with atonement.

    This was all pre-exile into Babylonian captivity. After those 70 years were up God brought them back - Jeremiah wrote about that and Daniel read it and rejoiced.

    The Temple was rebuilt and many, many Jews were considered righteous by God.
    ".....it's your nickel"

  7. #97
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    I do not know how you come to this conclusion. It is definitely not my view point. It is in fact the opposite, none are blinded any more.
    I forgot what the context was...sorry. We probably agree.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  8. #98
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I NEVER SAID IT WAS.
    The faithful ekkelasia, congregation, church, consists of every born again Christian.
    Israel is currently the Jewish State. Never the twain shall meet.

    But soon the Jewish State will be no more, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Amos 2:4-5, Romans 9:27 and then all of the holy Land will be inhabited by every faithful Christian; the real Israelites of God.

    This is is where I respectfully disagree with you brother.

    This already happened in 70AD.
    ďAĒ cannot be ďAĒ & not ďAĒ at the same time.



  9. #99
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I NEVER SAID IT WAS.
    The faithful ekkelasia, congregation, church, consists of every born again Christian.
    Israel is currently the Jewish State. Never the twain shall meet.

    But soon the Jewish State will be no more, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Amos 2:4-5, Romans 9:27 and then all of the holy Land will be inhabited by every faithful Christian; the real Israelites of God.
    I already explained that Scripture does not identify Gentiles as Israelites in any way, fashion or form in a very long post with Scriptural context. I will NOT respond anymore to your out of context proof texts.

    You asked me to provide Scriptures and an exegesis. I did. You need to address those exegesis of Scripture because I'm not doing them over again, nor am I going to reply to your smash and grab posts.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  10. #100
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    This is is where I respectfully disagree with you brother.

    This already happened in 70AD.
    Yes it did. Exactly as prophesied too. I also see parts of Revelation fulfilled. That would be a fun discussion!
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  11. #101
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    I understood you to be saying that circumcision gives Jews their identity. To me it is not and the reason they do it is because the law demands it. Many other nations/people do circumcision, but it is not what gave them their identity. It is a tradition or medical reason or any other reason. The point I was trying to make is that circumcision is no longer demanded by God no matter if you are Jew or Gentile. If you practice circumcision because of the law then you are under the law and not under grace. According to my understanding this is still the case with most Jews.

    The new testament made it clear that we believers are children of Abraham, but we do not have to be circumcised. Why are you offended if we proclaim this truth to all?
    Itís no offense to me at all - but I repeat - that was not my point.

    Abraham is the father (by faith) of both the circumcised and the uncircumcised because he was declared righteous before AND after he was circumcised. His circumcision was the seal of the Covenant God made. Note Isaac wasnít born until Abraham was circumcised so they are by nature tied to that covenant. We (the uncircumcised) are partakers by faith, which God declared as righteous to an uncircumcised Abraham. What then - both circumcised and uncircumcised are righteous by faith. So who cares? In the context of faith, no one holds no advantage over the other in that context. There is no reason to be offended by someoneís choice of identity.

    What difference does it make why anyone does anything? In regards to Moses, Jews donít do it ďto be saved,Ē they do it because God said so. Muslims do it because Abraham circumcised Ishmael. Christians and unbelievers do it for tradition. Who cares?

    My point was identity to Abraham by nature. Paul still makes this point in Romans, so itís a valid point Biblically.

  12. #102
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I NEVER SAID IT WAS.
    The faithful ekkelasia, congregation, church, consists of every born again Christian.
    Israel is currently the Jewish State. Never the twain shall meet.

    But soon the Jewish State will be no more, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Amos 2:4-5, Romans 9:27 and then all of the holy Land will be inhabited by every faithful Christian; the real Israelites of God.
    Israel will live on.

    A Remanent of Israel will turn to the Lord and Rule with Jesus for 1000 years during the Millennium.

    a rapture, a tribulation, a few more Victorious wars for Israel........fast forward: Millennium.

    simple plan, Awesome Execution, Great Results....coming to the Israel near you.

    blessings.
    Welcome to The Cutting Edge...
    "But none of the wicked shall understand [that the End of the Age is upon them]." [Daniel 12:10b]


    Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

    2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.










  13. #103
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by John777 View Post
    Israel will live on.

    A Remanent of Israel will turn to the Lord and Rule with Jesus for 1000 years during the Millennium.

    a rapture, a tribulation, a few more Victorious wars for Israel........fast forward: Millennium.

    simple plan, Awesome Execution, Great Results....coming to the Israel near you.

    blessings.
    Who does Jesus say will be His priests and co-rulers? Revelation 5:9-10
    Your belief of a general Jewish redemption, simply is not stated anywhere in the Bible.

  14. #104
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    I already explained that Scripture does not identify Gentiles as Israelites in any way, fashion or form in a very long post with Scriptural context. I will NOT respond anymore to your out of context proof texts.

    You asked me to provide Scriptures and an exegesis. I did. You need to address those exegesis of Scripture because I'm not doing them over again, nor am I going to reply to your smash and grab posts.
    I am so happy that you will desist from commenting on my posts.

    I read your post, a lengthy attempt to uphold Jewish Israel, made to preserve the false belief of the Jews on earth, while the Church goes to heaven.
    I disagree with it and here's why:

    The true Christian Ekklesia is Israel.
    Those believers who love the Lord and keep His commandments, that is: every faithful Christian person are designated by God to be Israelites. Galatians 6:16 The New Testament writings are clear: there is only one Israel, Jesus, who Overcame Satan at the Cross and His faithful followers, who are the only one Church, only one elect, be they Jew or Gentile by birth.
    1/ Israel, the chosen people of God: Exodus 15:13, Deuteronomy 33:3, Ezra 3:11
    Christians, chosen of God: Romans 9:25, Ephesians 5:1, Col. 3:12, 1 John 3:1, Rev. 7:9
    2/ Israel, the children of God: Deut. 14:1, Isaiah 1:2-4, Isaiah 63:8, Hosea 11:1
    Christians, the children of God: John 1:12, Romans 8:14-16, Galatians 4:5-7, 1 John 3:1
    3/ Israel, the scattered sheep of God: Psalms 78:52, Isaiah 40:11, Jer. 23:1-4, Ezekiel 34:12
    Christians, His sheep: among the nations: John 10:14-16, Hebrews 13:20, 1 Peter 2:25
    4/ Israel, God’s household: Hebrews 3:5, 1 Chronicles 29:14-18
    Christians are God’s household: Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 10:20-21, I Timothy 3:15, 1 Cor.3:9
    5/ Israel are the priests of God: Exodus 19:6, Deuteronomy 27:9
    Christians are the priests of God: Isaiah 66:21, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 1:6, Revelation 5:10
    6/ Israel is the bride of God: Isaiah 54:5-6, Jeremiah 2:2, Ezekiel 16:32, Hosea 1:2
    Christians are the bride of Christ: Isaiah 62:4-5, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:29-32
    7/ Israel is the vine and the olive tree: Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10, Hosea 14:6-7
    Christians are the vine and the olive: Luke 20:16, Romans 11:24
    8/ Israelites are the circumcised: Genesis 17:9-14, Judges 15:18
    Christians are the ‘circumcised’: Romans 2:25-29, Philippians 3:3, Col. 2:11
    9/ Israelites are the children of Abraham: 2 Chronicles 20:7, Psalms 105:5-6, Isaiah 41:8
    Christians are the spiritual children of Abraham: Romans 4:13-18, Gal. 3:7& 29, John 4:23
    10/ The Covenant is with Israel: Deut. 4:31, 2 Kings 17:34-36, Psalms 105:7-10
    The New Covenant is with Christians: 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-10, Ezekiel 34:25

  15. #105
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Now you understand why I didnít want to cast pearls before you Keraz. You are incapable of addressing my exegesis Scripturally even though you asked me to provide an exegesis to answer your string of out of context proof texts.

    Others here apparently already knew and predicted how you would respond; they were right.

    But I mainly wrote my posts for people to understand there are still Christians who abide in truth and grace as our Master has shown us.

    The truth will always stand, and I trust it will shine a light and expose the dark attitude of hate your posts present.

    Each person holds a key to love and fear, how they unlock that door is a choice they are free to make.

    I choose to fear God and love my neighbors and my enemies, and if that condemns me in your worldview, I rejoice in the Lord.

    So now the readers can judge for themselves who is on the side of love and who is on the side of fear.

    My work is done here.

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