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Thread: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

  1. #61
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    It can be used to write off anything. And it has.
    Some people seem to forget that God created Adam with real dirt.

  2. #62
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    If there was just a hint of still exalting physical Israel in any shape or form as a special and peculiar people in the underneath passage and also the core message of the NT, Paul would have never said the following...

    Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you is indeed not grievous to me, but for you it is safe. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision party. For we are the circumcision who worship God in the spirit and rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh; though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other thinks that he has reason to trust in the flesh, I more. I was circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews. As regards the Law, I was a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; regarding the righteousness in the Law, blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. But no, rather, I also count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them to be dung, so that I may win Christ and be found in Him; not having my own righteousness, which is of the Law, but through the faith of Christ, the righteousness of God by faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable to His death; if by any means I might attain to the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect, but I am pressing on, if I may lay hold of that for which I also was taken hold of by Christ Jesus. My brothers, I do not count myself to have taken possession, but one thing I do, forgetting the things behind and reaching forward to the things before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, be of this mind. And if in anything you are otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this to you. Yet, as to what we have already attained, let us walk in the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Brothers, be imitators together of me, and mark those who walk this way, for you have us for a pattern. (For many are walking, of whom I have told you often and now tell you even weeping, as the enemies of the cross of Christ; whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, those who mind earthly things.) For our citizenship is in Heaven, from which also we are looking for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall change our body of humiliation so that it may be fashioned like His glorious body, according to the working of His power, even to subdue all things to Himself.
    (Php 3:1-21 MKJV)


    It is a sad state the Church of Christ find herself in, being desensitized for Christ and His cross only. The Christian faith is about Christ and Him being crucified...

    For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
    (1Co 2:2 MKJV)


    We can only boast in His cross... and not in physical Israel and any of their rituals or sacrifices...

    See in what large letters I write to you with my hand. As many as desire to look well in the flesh, these compel you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For they themselves, having been circumcised, do not even keep the Law, but they desire you to be circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. But may it never be for me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified to me, and I to the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision has any strength, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them and upon the Israel of God. For the rest, let no one give troubles to me, for I bear in my body the brands of the Lord Jesus. Brothers, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.
    (Gal 6:11-18 MKJV)


    Yet, Israel in the flesh is nothing more and nothing less than Indians in the flesh. The reason is very simple, because everything is now about Christ and Him being crucified! Paul abandon every single attribute of being an physical Jew.

    We live in times of great deception and I believe dispensational theology (and anything resembling it) is part of this deception. I'm not personal when saying this, because I believe with all my heart, that I'm correct in saying this. If you disagree with me so be it, but it must be said if you are only honest in what you believe.

    In this thread, those believing that the culmination of Christ and His cross manifest in one single body, namely the Israel of God, consisting of all the believers from both physical Israel and the gentiles, are branded as being false, bordering as something disgusting and even being arrogant. Those words are welcome, because it did not move the truth of the matter...

    For as long as it is said in the right spirit, one may tolerate it and for those saying these things, please show the same tolerance... when we cannot forcefully be moved to agree on this, as if we must abide by dispensational (or anything near to it) standards of what they believe... You are welcome to believe the way you do, but I cannot and others too! We may discuss our differences, why not?
    The Rapture

    My dearest friends, I’m so sorry… so sorry
    but I must confess, don’t worry
    the rapture is not before the Great Tribulation
    it’s before God’s wrath!!!

    Because His wrath is not meant for you
    it’s for all the people in the zoo
    think about it and refresh…
    you will see there’s no way out of here, in the flesh

    If you really believe, you will see
    the rapture is for you and me
    when we decide to leave from here
    that very day, oh! God adhere…



  3. #63
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by CFJ View Post
    If there was just a hint of still exalting physical Israel in any shape or form as a special and peculiar people in the underneath passage and also the core message of the NT, Paul would have never said the following...

    Yet, Israel in the flesh is nothing more and nothing less than Indians in the flesh. The reason is very simple, because everything is now about Christ and Him being crucified! Paul abandon every single attribute of being an physical Jew.

    We live in times of great deception and I believe dispensational theology (and anything resembling it) is part of this deception. I'm not personal when saying this, because I believe with all my heart, that I'm correct in saying this. If you disagree with me so be it, but it must be said if you are only honest in what you believe.

    In this thread, those believing that the culmination of Christ and His cross manifest in one single body, namely the Israel of God, consisting of all the believers from both physical Israel and the gentiles, are branded as being false, bordering as something disgusting and even being arrogant..
    The serious problem that those who believe in a 'rapture to heaven', have is there is no real supporting scripture, so their only recourse is to attempt to discredit anyone who shows how seriously wrong that theory is.

    After several years of being on the receiving end of that kind of abuse, I don't let it bother me. Even though I have had a death threat and another rabid rapturist would have organized a lynching posse if he could have caught me.
    These things are confirmation of who is behind this awful deception, just as Satan was behind the Inquisition and all the persecutions of faithful Christians.

    I can only hope and pray that all believers can overcome their false teachings about what God has planned for our future. It IS for our good and we only need to stand strong in our faith, no matter how bad things seem to be.

  4. #64
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    What does this have to do with the hateful racist Puritan you referenced in your other post?
    There is no greater hateful racist than Antichrist...


    Jude
    You never have to advertise a fire. Everyone comes running when there's a fire. Likewise, if your church is on fire, you will not have to advertise it. The community will already know it.

    ~ Leonard Ravenhill




  5. #65
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The serious problem that those who believe in a 'rapture to heaven', have is there is no real supporting scripture, so their only recourse is to attempt to discredit anyone who shows how seriously wrong that theory is.

    After several years of being on the receiving end of that kind of abuse, I don't let it bother me. Even though I have had a death threat and another rabid rapturist would have organized a lynching posse if he could have caught me.
    These things are confirmation of who is behind this awful deception, just as Satan was behind the Inquisition and all the persecutions of faithful Christians.

    I can only hope and pray that all believers can overcome their false teachings about what God has planned for our future. It IS for our good and we only need to stand strong in our faith, no matter how bad things seem to be.
    The greater part of Christendom has forgotten history in that the doctrine of the rapture was concocted at the Council of Trent to hide the identity of Antichrist...


    Jude
    You never have to advertise a fire. Everyone comes running when there's a fire. Likewise, if your church is on fire, you will not have to advertise it. The community will already know it.

    ~ Leonard Ravenhill




  6. #66
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Circumcision predates the "law of Moses" (as if it came from Moses and not God). Abraham was the first Jew, and he was circumcised.
    I know. In Galatians Paul teaches very clearly why the circumcision is not necessary anymore for Jew and Gentile. The only reason to keep it is because of the law and Christ set us free from the law. In Christ the Gentiles are also part of Abraham and part of the promises made. Yet there is now no command to be circumcised, for our circumcision is of the heart, not the flesh.

    I know Jews today still do circumcision because they do not believe that their Messiah came and are still under the law. This does not make it correct.

  7. #67
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    I do not see this the reason for Timothy's circumcision. Paul wanted to use Timothy to preach in the Synagogue for having a Jewish mother he could preach there, but if he was not circumcised they would not have allowed him. Paul wanted to use Timothy for the unbelieving Jews and his reason for circumcision is the same as in the following verse.

    1Co 9:20 While working with the Jews, I live like a Jew in order to win them; and even though I myself am not subject to the Law of Moses, I live as though I were when working with those who are, in order to win them.

    Titus was not circumcised for it is not necessary for a believer to be circumcised. Here Paul was speaking to believers and it was decided that circumcision was not something believers would have to do. Titus could never preach in the Synagogues for the Jews, so there was no need for him to be circumcised. It had nothing to do with your ancestry for you to be circumcised or not, for in the New Covenant there is no difference between Jew or Gentile.

    I think you have to rethink this again.
    Very valid and important point to understand. Everything was done to exalt the good news of Christ. There is no point in doing it to exalt physical Jews. By doing that (exalting physical Jews) you make the cross of Christ of no effect (1Co 1:17).
    The Rapture

    My dearest friends, I’m so sorry… so sorry
    but I must confess, don’t worry
    the rapture is not before the Great Tribulation
    it’s before God’s wrath!!!

    Because His wrath is not meant for you
    it’s for all the people in the zoo
    think about it and refresh…
    you will see there’s no way out of here, in the flesh

    If you really believe, you will see
    the rapture is for you and me
    when we decide to leave from here
    that very day, oh! God adhere…



  8. #68
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The serious problem that those who believe in a 'rapture to heaven', have is there is no real supporting scripture, so their only recourse is to attempt to discredit anyone who shows how seriously wrong that theory is.

    After several years of being on the receiving end of that kind of abuse, I don't let it bother me. Even though I have had a death threat and another rabid rapturist would have organized a lynching posse if he could have caught me.
    These things are confirmation of who is behind this awful deception, just as Satan was behind the Inquisition and all the persecutions of faithful Christians.

    I can only hope and pray that all believers can overcome their false teachings about what God has planned for our future. It IS for our good and we only need to stand strong in our faith, no matter how bad things seem to be.
    What makes it more intriguing, is that it is even more difficult to show Scripture for a "secret" rapture. I believe the rise of Zionism is the real threat. The 1800's has seen numerous movements within Christianity focusing more and more on the law and obviously merits for physical Israel raised by vast increments. Christ has been nullified more and more too... and even blatantly in some instances.

    Compare...

    Seventh Day Adventists
    Jehovah Witnesses
    Charismatic Movement
    Mormons
    Dispensationalism

    This is some of the Christian movements and mainly from America (which can be seen as a Zionist state). Also compare the following movements post the above Christian movements which also dates back to the 1800's.

    Communism
    Zionism

    This is no co-incidence... All in the time of Modernism, where the truth has been confronted by new outlooks and believes...
    The Rapture

    My dearest friends, I’m so sorry… so sorry
    but I must confess, don’t worry
    the rapture is not before the Great Tribulation
    it’s before God’s wrath!!!

    Because His wrath is not meant for you
    it’s for all the people in the zoo
    think about it and refresh…
    you will see there’s no way out of here, in the flesh

    If you really believe, you will see
    the rapture is for you and me
    when we decide to leave from here
    that very day, oh! God adhere…



  9. #69
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    First and foremost we Christians here at Bible Forums who disagree with Replacement Theology do not "exalt physical Israel" and the claim that we do is false.

    Their branch has been removed and they have been partially blinded until Christ returns and the remnant accepts/believes upon Him as Messiah, Lord and Savior and God.
    We fully embrace the New Covenant and fully agree that the Church is all about Christ and the cross. We are no longer under the law - period. To claim that we say otherwise is another false charge.

    I've no idea where this "secret rapture to heaven" nonsense is coming from but I haven't read all of the threads and posts here lately so if someone is claiming such a thing please post a link and I'll join you in trying to edify them about it.

    What I can say with certainty is that just because we disagree with Replacement Theology that doesn't mean that we agree with and support any and every wackadoodle imaginations people can come up with.

    We are not enemies of the cross. We are not antichrist. We are not followers of the law and we do not "exalt" physical Israel over The Church as implied. We love them as God tells us to while at the same time we know, because God tells us, that they are out of His will and will remain so until the remnant accepts Christ.

    I am not in any way shape or form "desensitized for Christ and His cross only" but am in fact a slave to Christ and His fully. To claim otherwise ...well...I leave that between yourselves and God when the time comes.
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

  10. #70
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    First and foremost we Christians here at Bible Forums who disagree with Replacement Theology do not "exalt physical Israel" and the claim that we do is false.

    Their branch has been removed and they have been partially blinded until Christ returns and the remnant accepts/believes upon Him as Messiah, Lord and Savior and God.
    We fully embrace the New Covenant and fully agree that the Church is all about Christ and the cross. We are no longer under the law - period. To claim that we say otherwise is another false charge.

    I've no idea where this "secret rapture to heaven" nonsense is coming from but I haven't read all of the threads and posts here lately so if someone is claiming such a thing please post a link and I'll join you in trying to edify them about it.

    What I can say with certainty is that just because we disagree with Replacement Theology that doesn't mean that we agree with and support any and every wackadoodle imaginations people can come up with.

    We are not enemies of the cross. We are not antichrist. We are not followers of the law and we do not "exalt" physical Israel over The Church as implied. We love them as God tells us to while at the same time we know, because God tells us, that they are out of His will and will remain so until the remnant accepts Christ.

    I am not in any way shape or form "desensitized for Christ and His cross only" but am in a slave to Christ and His fully. To claim otherwise ...well...I leave that between yourselves and God when the time comes.
    Would I be correct to say you said this because of Rom 11:25-36?

    I believe if we really study this we will realize that it already happened and is happening until the second coming of Christ. The blindness was already lifted at Pentecost.

  11. #71
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Would I be correct to say you said this because of Rom 11:25-36?

    I believe if we really study this we will realize that it already happened and is happening until the second coming of Christ. The blindness was already lifted at Pentecost.
    If that were true all or at least the majority of Jews/Israel would have acknowledged Christ as God, become born again and recognized that we are under grace and not the law.
    There also wouldn't be clear Scripture telling us of their partial blindness and that only the remnant would be saved upon Christ's return.

    And...their branch wouldn't have been removed from the tree/root as it was. No brother, I disagree.
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

  12. #72
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    If that were true all or at least the majority of Jews/Israel would have acknowledged Christ as God, become born again and recognized that we are under grace and not the law.
    There also wouldn't be clear Scripture telling us of their partial blindness and that only the remnant would be saved upon Christ's return.

    And...their branch wouldn't have been removed from the tree/root as it was. No brother, I disagree.
    Why would it be different for Israel? What you said here is true for all nations. I do not believe that the majority would believe for narrow is the road to salvation. I do not believe that all that say they are Christians are born again Christians and only a remnant are saved. We all are in need of God's grace according to His mercy.

    Rom 11:31 In the same way, because of the mercy that you have received, the Jews now disobey God, in order that they also may now receive God's mercy.
    Rom 11:32 For God has made all people prisoners of disobedience, so that he might show mercy to them all.

    All need to be grafted in Jew and Gentile.

  13. #73
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    First and foremost we Christians here at Bible Forums who disagree with Replacement Theology do not "exalt physical Israel" and the claim that we do is false.

    Their branch has been removed and they have been partially blinded until Christ returns and the remnant accepts/believes upon Him as Messiah, Lord and Savior and God.
    We fully embrace the New Covenant and fully agree that the Church is all about Christ and the cross. We are no longer under the law - period. To claim that we say otherwise is another false charge.

    I've no idea where this "secret rapture to heaven" nonsense is coming from but I haven't read all of the threads and posts here lately so if someone is claiming such a thing please post a link and I'll join you in trying to edify them about it.

    What I can say with certainty is that just because we disagree with Replacement Theology that doesn't mean that we agree with and support any and every wackadoodle imaginations people can come up with.

    We are not enemies of the cross. We are not antichrist. We are not followers of the law and we do not "exalt" physical Israel over The Church as implied. We love them as God tells us to while at the same time we know, because God tells us, that they are out of His will and will remain so until the remnant accepts Christ.

    I am not in any way shape or form "desensitized for Christ and His cross only" but am in a slave to Christ and His fully. To claim otherwise ...well...I leave that between yourselves and God when the time comes.
    I think this sums up the position of those who disagree with the false doctrine of replacement theology perfectly.
    2 Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

  14. #74
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Why would it be different for Israel? What you said here is true for all nations. I do not believe that the majority would believe for narrow is the road to salvation. I do not believe that all that say they are Christians are born again Christians and only a remnant are saved. We all are in need of God's grace according to His mercy.

    Rom 11:31 In the same way, because of the mercy that you have received, the Jews now disobey God, in order that they also may now receive God's mercy.
    Rom 11:32 For God has made all people prisoners of disobedience, so that he might show mercy to them all.

    All need to be grafted in Jew and Gentile.
    You know...I think you've read something into this that I haven't said. NONE are in His will or will come to The Father unless and until they are born again. Christ's work on the cross was so that all and whoever believes upon Him would be saved..."for God so loved the world..."

    Israel was set apart by God before the New Covenant and led the way to Christ coming. Israel is still a part of God's plan but they are out of His will and are partially blinded ( meaning they still have faith in God the Father but reject Christ ) to the fullness of what God has done ( Christ, the cross and the New Covenant ) and revealed to us.

    Their branch ( the natural ) has been broken off and The Church ( the wild ) has been grafted in. When Christ returns they ( the remnant ) will finally accepte Him and be grafted back in.

    Until that time all who accept Christ and become born again enter The Church - Jew and Gentile alike. There is no difference between them as far as salvation and grace under the New Covenant.
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

  15. #75
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    Re: The Israel Palestine Peace Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    There is no greater hateful racist than Antichrist...


    Jude
    You may be correct since Jesus was born a Jew

    Anti-semites have the spirit of the antichrist for sure .

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