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Thread: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

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    Question The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    We read this:
    Rev 4:7 the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight.

    Later we read this:
    Rev 6:1 Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, “Come!”
    Rev 6:2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.
    Rev 6:3 When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!”
    Rev 6:4 And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword.
    Rev 6:5 When he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a black horse! And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand.
    Rev 6:6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!”
    Rev 6:7 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”
    Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

    Has anyone consider a connection between the living creature that speaks and the seal which is opened?

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    You may recall my mention of the correlation of the four living creatures with the four-directional plotment of Israel (Judah - Lion; etc).

    This is not to say that I believe the first four SEALS affect only Israel, or anything like that.

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Yes I've considered it and heard one teaching on it. However, in all my years of studying the seals, I've never been able to make a real solid connection.
    Granted, I haven't studied any of this in over 5 years. And let's face it, I'm not exactly a professor and I haven't been fortunate enough to go to theological seminary....or college of any kind. So there's that....lol
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    We read this:
    Rev 4:7 the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight.

    Later we read this:
    Rev 6:1 Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, “Come!”
    Rev 6:2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.
    Rev 6:3 When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!”
    Rev 6:4 And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword.
    Rev 6:5 When he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a black horse! And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand.
    Rev 6:6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!”
    Rev 6:7 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”
    Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

    Has anyone consider a connection between the living creature that speaks and the seal which is opened?
    Great question! No, I haven't given this any serious thought. Of course I've noticed this in reading it. But this is no coincidence--I just don't know the meaning behind the connection. I'm interested in any thoughts about this?

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by Saved7 View Post
    Yes I've considered it and heard one teaching on it. However, in all my years of studying the seals, I've never been able to make a real solid connection.
    Granted, I haven't studied any of this in over 5 years. And let's face it, I'm not exactly a professor and I haven't been fortunate enough to go to theological seminary....or college of any kind. So there's that....lol
    Some of us have been reading about it all our life, and still don't have solid answers!

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    You may recall my mention of the correlation of the four living creatures with the four-directional plotment of Israel (Judah - Lion; etc).

    This is not to say that I believe the first four SEALS affect only Israel, or anything like that.
    I do think the mention of the number 4 commonly relates to the 4 points of the compass. But putting together the attributes of these creatures is beyond me.

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    We read this:
    Rev 4:7 the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight.

    Later we read this:
    Rev 6:1 Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, “Come!”
    Rev 6:2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.
    Rev 6:3 When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!”
    Rev 6:4 And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword.
    Rev 6:5 When he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a black horse! And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand.
    Rev 6:6 And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!”
    Rev 6:7 When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”
    Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

    Has anyone consider a connection between the living creature that speaks and the seal which is opened?
    I don’t really see any special connection as there are 7 seals and only 4 creatures and there are also other angles realesing bowls and blowing trumpets

    The six seals do seam to match the events in Mathew 24 thought
    Last edited by marty fox; Nov 9th 2018 at 02:03 PM. Reason: Added information

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Has anyone consider a connection between the living creature that speaks and the seal which is opened?
    Yes. The four living creatures before the throne introduce these four beasts. Why?

    These beasts revealed in the first four seals are their opposing four kings in Satan's government. There are four kings in God's government and four in Satan. Counterfeit kingdom.

    Thus we see each king with 1/4 control over the land likewise then the case in God's kingdom.

    The four kings (creatures) in God's kingdom thus are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The fourth being David whom like the fourth beast in the seals has charge over the others. Each over 1/4 of the land.

    The four kings in Satan's kingdom are unknown at this time.

    Also then these 4 beasts rise up together in Rev 6 and would say these four seals are opened all together. One after the other.

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    You may recall my mention of the correlation of the four living creatures with the four-directional plotment of Israel (Judah - Lion; etc).
    This is not to say that I believe the first four SEALS affect only Israel, or anything like that.
    I recall something, but if Lion is Judah then are you claiming the other 3 are also tribes of Israel?

    I think it may be more connected with other prophecy:
    Eze 1:10* As for the likeness of their faces, each had a human face. The four had the face of a lion on the right side, the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four had the face of an eagle.

    Yet this simply points to John seeing one face from each living creature when recording Revelation perhaps.
    So Lion, Ox, Man and Eagle.

    Is there then a connection between a Lion and being robed in White?

    Why an Ox connected to Red and War? Is it plunder?

    Why Man with Black and Greed?

    Why an Eagle with Green and subjection?

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I think it may be more connected with other prophecy:
    Eze 1:10* As for the likeness of their faces, each had a human face. The four had the face of a lion on the right side, the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four had the face of an eagle.

    Yet this simply points to John seeing one face from each living creature when recording Revelation perhaps.
    So Lion, Ox, Man and Eagle.

    Is there then a connection between a Lion and being robed in White?

    Why an Ox connected to Red and War? Is it plunder?

    Why Man with Black and Greed?

    Why an Eagle with Green and subjection?

    There is no connection with the description in EZ 1 with the four in the first four seals rather than to understand there are two sets of 4 beasts. They are 4 kings each in their respective governments. (God, Satan).

    Thus the characteristics of the Lion, OX, Man, and Eagle do not relate to those in the first four seals and those kings in Satan's government rather to the kings in God's government. They would be the same creatures as in Revelation.

    Note I believe each four have the characteristics of the Lion, Ox, Man, and Eagle not one was a Lion, Ox ect…. So each had four faces.

    6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.

    Again these four creatures are four kings which like their evil counterparts reign over 1/4 of the kingdom.

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I recall something, but if Lion is Judah then are you claiming the other 3 are also tribes of Israel?

    I think it may be more connected with other prophecy:
    Eze 1:10* As for the likeness of their faces, each had a human face. The four had the face of a lion on the right side, the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four had the face of an eagle.

    Yet this simply points to John seeing one face from each living creature when recording Revelation perhaps.
    So Lion, Ox, Man and Eagle.

    Is there then a connection between a Lion and being robed in White?

    Why an Ox connected to Red and War? Is it plunder?

    Why Man with Black and Greed?

    Why an Eagle with Green and subjection?
    Good question! I'm not sure if it's their symbols, or simply their order that is in view? The 4 creatures coexist, but appear to assume a sequence with the 1st 4 seals being opened. Perhaps it is an historical order in which these events take place?

    I personally see a cross reference to the horses in Zechariah 1, in which there were 4 horses--2 red horses, 1 brown, and 1 white horse. One of the red horses was mounted by a man. They represented, perhaps, angelic forces that brought peace in the Middle East, enabling the recovery of Israel after the Babylonian Captivity.

    By contrast, the 4 horses in Rev 6 were all mounted by men, and were white, red, black, and pale green. They are certainly a different arrangement than the 4 horses of Zechariah!

    So the 4 horsemen of Rev 6 are aligned with the 4 angels/cherubim before God's throne in the NT age, in anticipation of the Kingdom of God. As horsemen they might represent the angelic use of man's military forces to bring about judgment at the end of the age. Whether this began after Christ's 1st Coming or whether it takes place at the end of the age I don't know--perhaps both?

    Let's look, as well, at the odd comparison of cherubim...
    Eze 1: man, lion, ox, eagle.
    Rev 4: lion, man, ox, eagle.

    The cherubim appear to be the same, with a different order. They may have a different mission at the end of the age than they had during the time of Israel's Captivity under the Law? And they may have a different sequence in their application of judgments? I might speculate that in the time of ancient Israel angels were more concerned with man, and only secondarily, with judgment. And at the end of the age, the major angelic concern would be judgment, and only afterwards, salvaging humanity?

    Let's also look at a comparison of evil beasts in Daniel and in Revelation...
    Dan 7: lion w/ eagle wings, bear, leopard, beast w/ 10 horns
    Rev 13: beast w/ 10 horns, leopard body, bear feet, lion mouth

    Notice how the order of beasts change. In Daniel these are kingdoms who reign in sequence. In Revelation they culminate in a single Kingdom, the Beast with 10 horns. This Kingdom has absorbed the attributes of the previous kingdoms, and now is viewed as the final Kingdom at the end of the age. Evil kingdoms in the OT age all begin with judgment--the lion. At the end of the age, the evil Kingdom of Antichrist speaks with judgment (the lion), occupies by force (the bear), advances with speed (the leopard), and forms a coalition of 10 nations.

    I think the angelic powers have a lot to do with enforcing God's word in the process of bringing the Antichristian Kingdom to justice. And it may require all of these cherubim at once, or each one in sequence.

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Good question! I'm not sure if it's their symbols, or simply their order that is in view? The 4 creatures coexist, but appear to assume a sequence with the 1st 4 seals being opened. Perhaps it is an historical order in which these events take place?

    I personally see a cross reference to the horses in Zechariah 1, in which there were 4 horses--2 red horses, 1 brown, and 1 white horse. One of the red horses was mounted by a man. They represented, perhaps, angelic forces that brought peace in the Middle East, enabling the recovery of Israel after the Babylonian Captivity.

    By contrast, the 4 horses in Rev 6 were all mounted by men, and were white, red, black, and pale green. They are certainly a different arrangement than the 4 horses of Ezekiel!

    So the 4 horsemen of Rev 6 are aligned with the 4 angels/cherubim before God's throne in the NT age, in anticipation of the Kingdom of God. As horsemen they might represent the angelic use of man's military forces to bring about judgment at the end of the age. Whether this began after Christ's 1st Coming or whether it takes place at the end of the age I don't know--perhaps both?

    Let's look, as well, at the odd comparison of cherubim...
    Eze 1: man, lion, ox, eagle.
    Rev 4: lion, man, ox, eagle.

    The cherubim appear to be the same, with a different order. They may have a different mission at the end of the age than they had during the time of Israel's Captivity under the Law? And they may have a different sequence in their application of judgments? I might speculate that in the time of ancient Israel angels were more concerned with man, and only secondarily, with judgment. And at the end of the age, the major angelic concern would be judgment, and only afterwards, salvaging humanity?

    Let's also look at a comparison of evil beasts in Daniel and in Revelation...
    Dan 7: lion w/ eagle wings, bear, leopard, beast w/ 10 horns
    Rev 13: beast w/ 10 horns, leopard body, bear feet, lion mouth

    Notice how the order of beasts change. In Daniel these are kingdoms who reign in sequence. In Revelation they culminate in a single Kingdom, the Beast with 10 horns. This Kingdom has absorbed the attributes of the previous kingdoms, and now is viewed as the final Kingdom at the end of the age. Evil kingdoms in the OT age all begin with judgment--the lion. At the end of the age, the evil Kingdom of Antichrist speaks with judgment (the lion), occupies by force (the bear), advances with speed (the leopard), and forms a coalition of 10 nations.

    I think the angelic powers have a lot to do with enforcing God's word in the process of bringing the Antichristian Kingdom to justice. And it may require all of these cherubim at once, or each one in sequence.
    Interesting addition about Daniel 7.
    However I would highlight that Dan 7 doesn't speak of the order in which they reigned, but rather the order in which they formed and came to be.
    Dan 2 is the order they ruled over Israel, which is a different order.

    Dan 7 and Rev 13 is a reverse order, yet I think it is going from the larger part to the smaller, yet the smaller does the most damage - the mouth.

    Interestingly, Ezekiel has Front - Man, Right - Lion, Left - Ox, and therefore Rear - Eagle.

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Ezekiel 1 speaks of these creatures having four wings and so does Ezekiel 10, yet Rev 4 has 6 wings.
    So is it a different creature? I think more likely another type of Cherubim, or is it a Seraphim?

    Exo 25:20 The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.

    Here when first introduced to them it speaks of two wings above which is also stated in Ezekiel 1.

    1Ki 6:27 He put the cherubim in the innermost part of the house. And the wings of the cherubim were spread out so that a wing of one touched the one wall, and a wing of the other cherub touched the other wall; their other wings touched each other in the middle of the house.

    Here Cherubim only have 2 wings like on the mercy seat.

    Gen_3:24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

    The first use of Cherubim shows them guarding the way to the Tree of Life.
    Later they then go where the Spirit directs.

    Isa 6:2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
    Isa 6:3 And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!”

    These Seraphim have six wings - and their cry is the same as that in Rev:
    A Seraph is related to the idea of burning - which is what we see in Isaiah 6:2.
    It is also connected to Serpent.
    This suggests that Satan was a Seraphim.

    Num 21:6 Then the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died.
    Num 21:7 And the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD and against you. Pray to the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.
    Num 21:8 And the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole, and everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.”

    Here we also see the Seraphim as both the curse and redemption.
    This picture is later used of Jesus by Jesus:
    Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,

    One other thought:
    Eze 3:12 Then the Spirit lifted me up, and I heard behind me the voice of a great earthquake: “Blessed be the glory of the LORD from its place!”
    Eze 3:13 It was the sound of the wings of the living creatures as they touched one another, and the sound of the wheels beside them, and the sound of a great earthquake.

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Interesting addition about Daniel 7.
    However I would highlight that Dan 7 doesn't speak of the order in which they reigned, but rather the order in which they formed and came to be.
    Dan 2 is the order they ruled over Israel, which is a different order.

    Dan 7 and Rev 13 is a reverse order, yet I think it is going from the larger part to the smaller, yet the smaller does the most damage - the mouth.

    Interestingly, Ezekiel has Front - Man, Right - Lion, Left - Ox, and therefore Rear - Eagle.
    Yea, I haven't considered that yet. Again, I think in the OT the focus is on saving man from judgment, whereas in the eschaton the focus is on judging mankind.

    Thus, in Ezekiel man is in the front, indicating God's wish to save Israel from judgment. The eagle follows, indicating judgment.

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    Re: The connection of the 4 living creatures and the first 4 seals

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Ezekiel 1 speaks of these creatures having four wings and so does Ezekiel 10, yet Rev 4 has 6 wings.
    So is it a different creature? I think more likely another type of Cherubim, or is it a Seraphim?
    These are interesting questions, but I'm not sure if we can really answer them? It may be that these are different angels. But it may also be that angels can be equipped with different body parts at different times, just as angels put on human appearances when appearing to men in the OT.

    What is significant is that there is apparently an increase in the number of wings, from 4 to 6. The cherubim in Eze 1 has 2 wings to fly with, and 2 wings to cover itself with. It was important, in the holy of holies to have the ark of the covenant covered by the wings of the cherubim, indicating an angelic separation of Man from God.

    With the cherubim in Rev 4, eyes exist under the wings, indicating that the ark of the covenant has now been opened for Christians, who see Christ as the fulfillment of the ark. But why there are now more wings I don't know, unless it had to do with the increase of application from Israel to the Church?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    Exo 25:20 The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.

    Here when first introduced to them it speaks of two wings above which is also stated in Ezekiel 1.

    1Ki 6:27 He put the cherubim in the innermost part of the house. And the wings of the cherubim were spread out so that a wing of one touched the one wall, and a wing of the other cherub touched the other wall; their other wings touched each other in the middle of the house.

    Here Cherubim only have 2 wings like on the mercy seat.

    Gen_3:24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

    The first use of Cherubim shows them guarding the way to the Tree of Life.
    Later they then go where the Spirit directs.

    Isa 6:2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
    Isa 6:3 And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!”

    These Seraphim have six wings - and their cry is the same as that in Rev:
    A Seraph is related to the idea of burning - which is what we see in Isaiah 6:2.
    It is also connected to Serpent.
    This suggests that Satan was a Seraphim.

    Num 21:6 Then the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died.
    Num 21:7 And the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD and against you. Pray to the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.
    Num 21:8 And the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole, and everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.”

    Here we also see the Seraphim as both the curse and redemption.
    This picture is later used of Jesus by Jesus:
    Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,

    One other thought:
    Eze 3:12 Then the Spirit lifted me up, and I heard behind me the voice of a great earthquake: “Blessed be the glory of the LORD from its place!”
    Eze 3:13 It was the sound of the wings of the living creatures as they touched one another, and the sound of the wheels beside them, and the sound of a great earthquake.
    Ah, I see! The Seraphim must be different than the Cherubim, inasmuch as they have 6 wings and the Cherubim only have 4 wings? And you explained it here--the 6 wings of the Seraphim are 4 for covering and 2 for flying, whereas the 4 wings of the Cherubim are 2 for covering and 2 for flying.

    It's interesting that the Seraphim cover face and feet, whereas with the Cherubim, only the body is covered. The Cherubim thus hide their existence, whereas the Seraphim hide their identity and direction. In history we know that God's existence in Jesus was hidden before he came, and that Jesus' identity and purpose were also hidden even after he came.

    Angels are the gate keepers, or enforcers, who allow Man into the presence of God, to receive this revelation. The Church, having this revelation of Christ, brings about an action on the part of the angels. They bring judgment to the world, who reject our testimony of Christ.

    In Ezekiel's day, Israel's sin brought about a great judgment upon themselves through the agency of the angels. In our day the Church will also bring about a great judgment upon the world through the agency of angels, as well.

    This is hidden from the unrepentant world, who rejects the testimony of the Church. But the angels will prepare the coming of the Kingdom for us, who have repented in the name of Christ.

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