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Thread: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

  1. #76
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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I won't quite reach the same conclusion that the 'day people come down from their housetop is the same day that Christ returns'.
    That's what the passage says though.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    If you want to believe these events have to do exclusively with the 2nd Coming, you will have the problem of ignoring that Jesus initiated this Discourse with a prophecy of the 70 AD event.
    What he said about the temple was not part of the olivet discourse. Only what he said at the mount is part of that discourse. Then you still have the issue that the same day Christ returns, people come down from the roof tops.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I think that "the day" is more like a time period or a season
    But there is a literal day Christ returns and the subject is stories and examples that will show what it will be like on that particular day.

    Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

    The day of the second coming.


    Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
    Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
    Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
    Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
    Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
    Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


    The day of the second coming. People will be saved first, then the others are destroyed. That is taken and left in chronological order.


    Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
    Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
    Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
    Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.


    Everyday has a period of night. We don't know if Christ returns during day light or at night but this is still about what happens when Christ returns. The same chronological order is here that we found in the examples of Noah and Lot.


    Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    These would be during the day not night and we still have the same order. From the other examples and the definitions of these Greek words we know the people taken are saved, and the rest are who Christ destroys.

    Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

    And the saved ones are taken to witness the battle of Armageddon where we see the second group/person in all the examples suffer destruction.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    But there is a literal day Christ returns and the subject is stories and examples that will show what it will be like on that particular day.

    Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

    The day of the second coming.


    Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
    Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
    Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
    Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
    Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
    Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


    The day of the second coming. People will be saved first, then the others are destroyed. That is taken and left in chronological order.


    Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
    Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
    Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
    Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.


    Everyday has a period of night. We don't know if Christ returns during day light or at night but this is still about what happens when Christ returns. The same chronological order is here that we found in the examples of Noah and Lot.


    Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    These would be during the day not night and we still have the same order. From the other examples and the definitions of these Greek words we know the people taken are saved, and the rest are who Christ destroys.

    Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

    And the saved ones are taken to witness the battle of Armageddon where we see the second group/person in all the examples suffer destruction.
    But the subject in Luke about Noah and lot is judgement thus I believe Jesus was talking about his coming in judgement not the second coming

    In Noah’s time it was better to be left behind not taken

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But the subject in Luke about Noah and lot is judgement thus I believe Jesus was talking about his coming in judgement not the second coming
    Same thing.

    In Noah’s time it was better to be left behind not taken
    I think being taken into the safety of the ark is far better than what happened to those left behind. Same thing is the Lot story. He was taken to safety and the people of Sodom left behind. It is always the first to who to a safe place who are taken, and always those who were left that died.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    But the subject in Luke about Noah and lot is judgement thus I believe Jesus was talking about his coming in judgement not the second coming
    Same thing.
    I was meaning the judgement of Jerusalem in 70AD

    In Noah’s time it was better to be left behind not taken
    I think being taken into the safety of the ark is far better than what happened to those left behind. Same thing is the Lot story. He was taken to safety and the people of Sodom left behind. It is always the first to who to a safe place who are taken, and always those who were left that died.
    Not so see below

    Matthew 24:36-41
    36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

    The ones who didn't enter the ark were taken away as in judgement in verse 39. Then it states "that is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left".

    They are also taken in judgement thus it was better to be left behind in Noah's day

  7. #82
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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I was meaning the judgement of Jerusalem in 70AD
    There is only one coming left since Jesus ascended into heaven and it didn't happen in Ad70. No judgment happened then. That was merely Roman revenge for Jewish rebellion against their rule.



    Not so see below

    Matthew 24:36-41
    36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

    The ones who didn't enter the ark were taken away as in judgement in verse 39.

    They were not those who were TAKEN into the ark. They were left behind to be "taken" (different Greek word than the other taken) by the flood.


    Then it states "that is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left".

    They are also taken in judgement thus it was better to be left behind in Noah's day
    The left ones drowned.

    In all examples the first ones are saved, the last ones suffer violence and death. That is no different for Noah. The saved ones are taken aboard the ark which protects them. The ones left outside drown. Never do the examples show the death first and the safe ones last as you are trying to make it appear.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    There is only one coming left since Jesus ascended into heaven and it didn't happen in Ad70. No judgment happened then. That was merely Roman revenge for Jewish rebellion against their rule.
    Not quite Jesus plainly states the reason for the destruction of Jerusalem in the verses below

    Luke 19:41-44
    41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

    God used Rome in their own evil ways for His purpose Jesus came in judgement in 70AD for their rejection of their Messiah

    They were not those who were TAKEN into the ark. They were left behind to be "taken" (different Greek word than the other taken) by the flood.
    Yes that is what I am saying they were taken in judgement


    It clearly states above that Noah entered the ark. Then the ones outside were taken (in judgement) then it states that "that is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

    The ones taken are taken in judgement verse 40 states that is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man." so there is a coming in judgement buy the son of man.

    The left ones drowned.

    In all examples the first ones are saved, the last ones suffer violence and death. That is no different for Noah. The saved ones are taken aboard the ark which protects them. The ones left outside drown. Never do the examples show the death first and the safe ones last as you are trying to make it appear.
    The text clearly states "Noah entered the ark" then the flood came and they were taken away" I can't understand how you can't see this. Noah entered into safety
    Last edited by marty fox; Nov 25th 2018 at 01:25 AM. Reason: add info

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post


    It clearly states above that Noah entered the ark.
    So? He is still taken into it because God wanted him to make it plus Everyone else that was also taken in.

    Then the ones outside were taken (in judgement)
    Yes because they were not taken into the Ark. They were the left ones, the ones rejected which is why they died.



    then it states that "that is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."
    Yep, the ones taken in the Ark are the one taken, the one left are those outside the Ark, those left in the city of Sodom.


    The ones taken are taken in judgement verse 40 states that is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man." so there is a coming in judgement bu the son of man.
    No, the passages show that the one left is taken in judgment.



    The text clearly states "Noah entered the ark" then the flood came and they were taken away" I can't understand how you can't see this
    It6's because I see who the one taken are before any judgment or killing happens. I already have shown you that the first people are always saved and are always the ones who are TAKEN/paralambanō to safety. It is only the last group who are left behind who are the ones that die/or are punished. It's that way in every example given including the ten virgins.

    You constantly confuse TAKEN/paralambanō with taken/airō which doesn't have the same meaning as paralambanō.

    Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken (paralambanō not airō), and the other left.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    So? He is still taken into it because God wanted him to make it plus Everyone else that was also taken in.



    Yes because they were not taken into the Ark. They were the left ones, the ones rejected which is why they died.





    Yep, the ones taken in the Ark are the one taken, the one left are those outside the Ark, those left in the city of Sodom.




    No, the passages show that the one left is taken in judgment.





    It6's because I see who the one taken are before any judgment or killing happens. I already have shown you that the first people are always saved and are always the ones who are TAKEN/paralambanō to safety. It is only the last group who are left behind who are the ones that die/or are punished. It's that way in every example given including the ten virgins.

    You constantly confuse TAKEN/paralambanō with taken/airō which doesn't have the same meaning as paralambanō.

    Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken (paralambanō not airō), and the other left.
    I guess that we will have to agree to disagree with what taken means but how about back to what you said before in case you haven't noticed it before

    You said

    "There is only one coming left since Jesus ascended into heaven and it didn't happen in Ad70. No judgment happened then. That was merely Roman revenge for Jewish rebellion against their rule."

    Jesus says in Luke 19:41-44

    "Luke 19:41-44
    41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

    Would you agree now that the events on 70AD was not just Rome crushing the Jewish rebellion but God's judgement for the Jews rejecting their Messiah? Thats why the Christians heeded Jesus' warning and fled Jerusalem before it happened.

    Do you now see that Jesus came in judgement in 70AD?

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I guess that we will have to agree to disagree with what taken means but how about back to what you said before in case you haven't noticed it before

    You said

    "There is only one coming left since Jesus ascended into heaven and it didn't happen in Ad70. No judgment happened then. That was merely Roman revenge for Jewish rebellion against their rule."

    Jesus says in Luke 19:41-44

    "Luke 19:41-44
    41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

    Would you agree now that the events on 70AD was not just Rome crushing the Jewish rebellion but God's judgement for the Jews rejecting their Messiah? That why the Christians heeded Jesus' warning and fled Jerusalem before it happened.

    Do you now see that Jesus came in judgement in 70AD?
    No. Jesus wasn't there. As I said and as scripture says, there is one coming from heaven not two. Plus, why would God punish in Ad 70 when the people responsible for rejecting and killing Christ was in Ad 30ish? Almost 40 years after Christ died? That's killing the children and grandchildren of the people responsible...and how many of the older gen would have even still be alive in Ad 70?
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    What he said about the temple was not part of the olivet discourse. Only what he said at the mount is part of that discourse. Then you still have the issue that the same day Christ returns, people come down from the roof tops.
    Neither are issues for me. The 2nd has been a bit problematic, but not overwhelmingly so. I think I've just read it wrong for too many years. It's hard to adjust my thinking.

    But the part about the temple not being a part of the Olivet Discourse. That's absurd, and I have no need to assure myself that this event was the *central issue* of the Discourse. That you think it otherwise is very strange and suspicious to me. It seems you must have an agenda to believe another position?

    Matt 23.
    37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
    Matt 24.1
    Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
    3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

    Luke 13.
    34 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.35 Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’ "
    Luke 19.
    41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes.43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side.44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”
    Luke 21.
    5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”
    7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”


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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Neither are issues for me. The 2nd has been a bit problematic, but not overwhelmingly so. I think I've just read it wrong for too many years. It's hard to adjust my thinking.

    But the part about the temple not being a part of the Olivet Discourse. That's absurd, and I have no need to assure myself that this event was the *central issue* of the Discourse. That you think it otherwise is very strange and suspicious to me. It seems you must have an agenda to believe another position?
    No. I just read it as it is presented and nothing about the temple being destroyed is mentioned in the discourse. Like you said, you have read and understood it one way so long you have trouble seeing it another way. You even call it central yet it's not mentioned a single time and it's not even persecution of Jews that is at all mentioned in the discourse...it's only about Christians.Look at it again:

    Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    False Christ's are warned about.

    Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

    These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you".

    Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


    The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.


    Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    "Ye" are Christians.
    So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.

    Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    "Ye" is still the same people, Christians.


    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.

    Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

    Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.

    Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.


    Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
    Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

    You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.

    Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.


    Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


    And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No. Jesus wasn't there. As I said and as scripture says, there is one coming from heaven not two. Plus, why would God punish in Ad 70 when the people responsible for rejecting and killing Christ was in Ad 30ish? Almost 40 years after Christ died? That's killing the children and grandchildren of the people responsible...and how many of the older gen would have even still be alive in Ad 70?
    You can't be serious please stop and pray and then reread the verses below and ask God for clarity.

    Luke 19:41-44
    41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

    Jesus plainly states that the reason for the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD was because they didn't recognize Him as their Messiah. If you can't agree with the words right out of Jesus' mouth then what bases do you have for understanding any scriptures?

    I say this out of brotherly Love but if you can't agree with what Jesus said in Luke 19 then you are saying that Jesus is wrong and therefore can't be God as God is perfect.

    What do you think Jesus meant?

    I really don't care if you agree with anything I said here accept for not believing in Jesus' words in Luke 19:44.

    The reason God waited is because He is patient and gave the Jews time to repent and 40 years wasn't that much of a long time most people would of still been alive.

    Remember these words below when Pilot addressed the people

    Matthew 27:25
    All the people answered, "His blood is on us and on our children!"

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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No. I just read it as it is presented and nothing about the temple being destroyed is mentioned in the discourse. Like you said, you have read and understood it one way so long you have trouble seeing it another way. You even call it central yet it's not mentioned a single time and it's not even persecution of Jews that is at all mentioned in the discourse...it's only about Christians.Look at it again:

    Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    False Christ's are warned about.

    Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

    These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you".

    Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


    The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.


    Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    "Ye" are Christians.
    So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.

    Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    "Ye" is still the same people, Christians.


    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.

    Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

    Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.

    Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.


    Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
    Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

    You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.

    Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.


    Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


    And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
    Matt 23.
    37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
    Matt 24.1
    Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
    3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

    Luke 13.
    34 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.35 Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’ "
    Luke 19.
    41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes.43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side.44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”
    Luke 21.
    5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”
    7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”

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