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Thread: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

  1. #166
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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    This was for the Church in Philadelphia ONLY. Not the churches of Laodicea or Thyatira, but ONLY this one church. Why? Because they have ALREADY patiently endured.
    This church no longer exists.
    In the endeavor to find support for a 'feeling'... the verses are taken out of context. The letters to the churches were written for all churches then and now. Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
    The church in Philadelphia may not exist physically but it does spiritually in those who honestly believe in Jesus. When was anyone ever kept ''from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth ''? Read that again....SHALL COME.

  2. #167
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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by tfcrew View Post
    In the endeavor to find support for a 'feeling'... the verses are taken out of context. The letters to the churches were written for all churches then and now. Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
    The church in Philadelphia may not exist physically but it does spiritually in those who honestly believe in Jesus. When was anyone ever kept ''from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth ''? Read that again....SHALL COME.
    No, those verses are NOT taken out of CONTEXT.
    It is correct that we ALL need to pay attention to what God said to ALL the churches.
    However those SPECIFIC verses were ADDRESSED SPECIFICALLY to the church in the location of Philadelphia.

    Rev 3:1* “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

    This was directed to the church in Sardis and NOT the church in Philadelphia - different message for a different church.

    Rev 3:7* “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: ‘The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens.*
    Rev 3:8* “‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.

    Again directed to the church in Philadelphia. The statement about Jesus is true for everyone, but verse two is about THEIR works and NOT the works of the church in Sardis, whcih you will note above is a DIFFERENT statement.

    Again note what is said about Laodicea:
    Rev 3:14* “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.*
    Rev 3:15* “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!*

    ALL three churches' works are KNOWN by God. This is true for everyone to pay attention to. However the works of Sardis is different to that of Philadelphia which is different to Laodicea.
    We MUST always follow CONTEXT.

    The church in Philadelphia does NOT exist spiritually. You may say the people of the church of Philadelphia exists.
    Those who honestly believe in Him exist spiritually in whichever location they are - so you can be the church in Rome, or London or New York. Perhaps you are the church in Corinth.

    As I stated Philadelphia was kept DURING the Roman times when tribulation was across the ENTIRE Roman World.

  3. #168
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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    (bump)

    Tfcrew
    If usage of the word ‘church’ in a verse denotes the presence of the church, and lack of use of the word ‘church’ denotes it’s absence, we are in a lot of trouble using that kind of faulty logic.


    The word ‘church’ isn’t used any between Revelation 4:1 thru Rev 22:15.
    Not on earth.
    Not in Heaven.
    Not one time.


    So applying your logic. Every member of the church in Heaven and Earth must be obliterated out of existence before 4:1.


    Likewise, the word church is not found in 99.86% of all NT verses.
    (‘Church’ is missing from 7,886 of 8,000 verses).


    So who were the 99.86% of NT verses written to that do not mention the ‘church’?


    See how silly and illogical now the premise is of ‘the church is missing’ from Rev 4-22?

  4. #169
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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    (bump)

    Tfcrew
    If usage of the word ‘church’ in a verse denotes the presence of the church, and lack of use of the word ‘church’ denotes it’s absence, we are in a lot of trouble using that kind of faulty logic.


    The word ‘church’ isn’t used any between Revelation 4:1 thru Rev 22:15.
    Not on earth.
    Not in Heaven.
    Not one time.


    So applying your logic. Every member of the church in Heaven and Earth must be obliterated out of existence before 4:1.


    Likewise, the word church is not found in 99.86% of all NT verses.
    (‘Church’ is missing from 7,886 of 8,000 verses).


    So who were the 99.86% of NT verses written to that do not mention the ‘church’?


    See how silly and illogical now the premise is of ‘the church is missing’ from Rev 4-22?
    One has to begin with the premise that the Church is going anywhere. The only place Christians go is to their death or to the clouds, only to return within the twinkling of an eye. That is not gone for long!

    If you want to see the Church discussed in Revelation, you only need to find a reference to the church, Christians, saints, believers, faithful, or whatever synonym fits the church. To assume any of these synonyms does *not* reference the church is begging the question. It is assuming what you haven't proven, namely that the Church went anywhere!

    If anybody thinks the Antichrist persecutes a non-Church, that is plain silly. He hates Christ. And so the object of his wrath is not any people other than the Church...or perhaps Israel, whose destiny is foretold in biblical prophecy. But to think that Antichrist doesn't persecute the Church is to separate Christians from the Church. And that is just plain unreasonable, in my opinion.

  5. #170
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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    One has to begin with the premise that the Church is going anywhere. The only place Christians go is to their death or to the clouds, only to return within the twinkling of an eye. That is not gone for long!

    If you want to see the Church discussed in Revelation, you only need to find a reference to the church, Christians, saints, believers, faithful, or whatever synonym fits the church. To assume any of these synonyms does *not* reference the church is begging the question. It is assuming what you haven't proven, namely that the Church went anywhere!
    The issue is that during the GT the "church" is scattered all over the globe whether in hiding or in prisons etc. They aren't in one place. The rapture specifically is designed to take Christians wherevere they are, to one central location so all Christians/the church are in one place all together which will be in the clouds to meet Christ as he descends to the Earth at the second coming. It is a brief relocation as you mentioned but they are only gone from the Earth for a short time. I believe their Earthly destination is Armageddon.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  6. #171
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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    One has to begin with the premise that the Church is going anywhere. The only place Christians go is to their death or to the clouds, only to return within the twinkling of an eye. That is not gone for long!

    If you want to see the Church discussed in Revelation, you only need to find a reference to the church, Christians, saints, believers, faithful, or whatever synonym fits the church. To assume any of these synonyms does *not* reference the church is begging the question. It is assuming what you haven't proven, namely that the Church went anywhere!

    If anybody thinks the Antichrist persecutes a non-Church, that is plain silly. He hates Christ. And so the object of his wrath is not any people other than the Church...or perhaps Israel, whose destiny is foretold in biblical prophecy. But to think that Antichrist doesn't persecute the Church is to separate Christians from the Church. And that is just plain unreasonable, in my opinion.
    I don't disagree with you Randy, that is is simple to find the church in any book of the bible, if you know the 'type' of people you are looking for, regardless of the 'grouping word' used to describe them.

    I was more interested in tfcrew's statement that the church is missing in chapters 4-22, and wanting to get their response on 'where are they'? Since the word isn't found in those chapters addressing people either in heaven or on the earth.

    No reply....I'm wondering if they had an epiphanea on their mistake, (and not the John 2:28-3:2 type of epiphanea)

  7. #172
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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The issue is that during the GT the "church" is scattered all over the globe whether in hiding or in prisons etc. They aren't in one place. The rapture specifically is designed to take Christians wherevere they are, to one central location so all Christians/the church are in one place all together which will be in the clouds to meet Christ as he descends to the Earth at the second coming. It is a brief relocation as you mentioned but they are only gone from the Earth for a short time. I believe their Earthly destination is Armageddon.
    I can't see a whole lot wrong with that.

  8. #173
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    Re: Pre-Trib Raptured Where???

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    I don't disagree with you Randy, that is is simple to find the church in any book of the bible, if you know the 'type' of people you are looking for, regardless of the 'grouping word' used to describe them.

    I was more interested in tfcrew's statement that the church is missing in chapters 4-22, and wanting to get their response on 'where are they'? Since the word isn't found in those chapters addressing people either in heaven or on the earth.

    No reply....I'm wondering if they had an epiphanea on their mistake, (and not the John 2:28-3:2 type of epiphanea)
    Got ya! Maybe they were "raptured" out of heaven?

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