Page 16 of 16 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213141516
Results 226 to 231 of 231

Thread: When will the OT saints arise?

  1. #226
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,894
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post

    What we might consider also is the whole discussion that Christ had with the wealthy young man:

    Matt. 19:17-26 "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.*And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

    Now, why is it hard for the wealthy person to enter the kingdom? Reason tells us that they will automatically trust their money for sustenance, deliverance and anything else it can buy. You can't exercise faith, when you don't need bailed out once in while.
    Your comments are as usual on point. The scripture even told us that the rich young man was sorrowful after Jesus told him to go and dispose of his wealth and come and follow him (Matt 19:22).

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post

    What we might consider also is the whole discussion that Christ had with the wealthy young man:

    Matt. 19:17-26 "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.*And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

    Now, why is it hard for the wealthy person to enter the kingdom? Reason tells us that they will automatically trust their money for sustenance, deliverance and anything else it can buy. You can't exercise faith, when you don't need bailed out once in while.
    Your comments are as usual on point. The scripture even told us that the rich young man was sorrowful after Jesus told him to go and dispose of his wealth and come and follow him (Matt 19:22).

  2. #227
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,894
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The position I have taken is to agree with what Jesus said.



    That isn't remotely correct. The new covenant wasn't in effect until Christ died. Until then, it was the OC in effect and obedience to it's commandments to receive eternal life.

    What you are doing is trying to rush the new cov. into effect before it was in effect.
    No. You are relying on just a small part of what Jesus said while ignoring others that make up the complete picture.

  3. #228
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,140
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    No. You are relying on just a small part of what Jesus said while ignoring others that make up the complete picture.
    I see the complete picture. I am simply unwilling to disagree with Jesus, "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

    I believe what Jesus said was true. Do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    No. You are relying on just a small part of what Jesus said while ignoring others that make up the complete picture.
    I see the complete picture. I am simply unwilling to disagree with Jesus, "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

    I believe what Jesus said was true. Do you?
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  4. #229
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,894
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    I see the complete picture. I am simply unwilling to disagree with Jesus, "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

    I believe what Jesus said was true. Do you?
    I stand on what I said that you relied upon a small part of the discourse to argue. Because after the rich young said he had observed the law from youth, Jesus told him to do something he was sorrowful for. Go and read the passage again all the way to the end of the exchange between Jesus and the young man. Makes no sense to claim you believe in what Jesus said while willfully ignoring what he said in full.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    I see the complete picture. I am simply unwilling to disagree with Jesus, "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

    I believe what Jesus said was true. Do you?
    I stand on what I said that you relied upon a small part of the discourse to argue. Because after the rich young said he had observed the law from youth, Jesus told him to do something he was sorrowful for. Go and read the passage again all the way to the end of the exchange between Jesus and the young man. Makes no sense to claim you believe in what Jesus said while willfully ignoring what he said in full.

  5. #230
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,894
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
    Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
    2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


    Daniel 11:45 nor Daniel 12:1 take place during the thousand years after Christ has returned, yet it would have to if you are correct here. In Daniel 12:1 'at that time' is referred to 3 times in that verse.

    A...And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people

    B...and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time

    C... and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    Let's begin with A. Where is the nearest antecedent for that if not Daniel 11:45?

    As to verse 2..where is the nearest antecedent for that if it isn't meaning C?
    Not true. At that time can also mean "at the time of the event prophecied". IOW, it's a forward look to the events timeline.

  6. #231
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,894
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    Are you seriously going to argue that some who sleep in the dust of the ground, though it didn't include Daniel at the time, the fact he was still alive, but that he no longer is alive now though, that everlasting life has not already been promised to him and other OT saints like him? Because if it isn't, we then have to apply this part to Daniel instead...and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Who would apply that to Daniel though? Not even you would.
    Not sure what you are arguing here? The fact that the text says "some will rise to EVERLASTING LIFE should put any disagreement to bed. Everlasting life is synonymous with eternal life. So while these NT phrases like salvation, eternal life, being saved, etc. were unknown in the OT age, I doubt if anyone can in good conscience, deny that those listed in Heb 11 as faithful are saved and guaranteed eternal life?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. When will the OT saints rise?
    By Trivalee in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: Jan 5th 2018, 07:01 AM
  2. Who are these saints?
    By luigi in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 249
    Last Post: Aug 18th 2013, 07:48 PM
  3. Arise, Mighty Conqueror!
    By ConqueredbyLove in forum Devotions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Jul 24th 2009, 04:07 AM
  4. Why do Saints not Act Like Relatives
    By Life Line in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Jun 5th 2009, 03:22 PM
  5. Arise, Mighty Conqueror!
    By ConqueredbyLove in forum Devotions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Sep 30th 2008, 11:40 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •