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Thread: When will the OT saints arise?

  1. #166
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Except here:

    Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    Not in the OT but the NT.
    Can you find what Jesus is referring to?

  2. #167
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Not in the OT but the NT.
    Can you find what Jesus is referring to?
    The law of Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Not in the OT but the NT.
    Can you find what Jesus is referring to?
    The law of Christ?

  3. #168
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    Cool Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The law of Christ?



    The law of Christ?
    Just keep reading. Jesus spells it out for him.

    Matt. 19:18-20 "He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, honour thy father and thy mother: and, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?"

    When He said commandments, He meant the 10 Commandments.
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

  4. #169
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Just keep reading. Jesus spells it out for him.

    Matt. 19:18-20 "He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, honour thy father and thy mother: and, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?"

    When He said commandments, He meant the 10 Commandments.
    Spoken during the old covenant. Everything changed when Christ died and the new covenant was in effect.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  5. #170
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    And the "others added at the GWTJ" is the NHNE, isn't it?
    No the MK is the START of the NHNE.
    The others are added AFTER Satan is gone at the GWToJ.

  6. #171
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The law of Christ?
    The point I was making to ewq was that this was NOT stated in the OT but in the NT.
    Further when Jesus said this and He was answered that the commandments were kept then Jesus added more things, which were the needed:
    Mat 19:20* The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?”*
    Mat 19:21* Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

    He knew that even keeping these he was lacking something.
    So Jesus said, sell what you have an follow me.
    The key being following Jesus, and the need to sell what he had was in order to not be kept from following Jesus by those things he had.

    The commandments NEVER give eternal life.
    Not the 613 Laws, nor the 10 commandments, nor the "Law of Christ" which is but clarifying the key things ALREADY stated in the OT.

    The Law is about right living, and therefore living right with God and with Man.
    God requires us to live correctly.

  7. #172
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    No the MK is the START of the NHNE.
    The others are added AFTER Satan is gone at the GWToJ.
    The Bible doesn't support your claim that the MK is the start of the NHNE. I have satisfactorily refuted this with scripture. You are just fixated with your bad interpretation of the NHNE.

  8. #173
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The Bible doesn't support your claim that the MK is the start of the NHNE. I have satisfactorily refuted this with scripture. You are just fixated with your bad interpretation of the NHNE.
    No you haven't. You have provided ZERO scriptures. All you have said is about weeping and gnashing of teeth which is CLEARLY a reference to JUDGEMENT.
    So when does the judgement of the dead occur?
    It happens at the GWToJ so your OWN scripture doesn't support your claim.

    As for the start of the NHNE, when does Isaiah 65 happen and Zech 14?
    It is ALL proven to be at the START of the MK.

    I am not fixated with a view, but do prefer to hold onto a view which actually matches scripture rather than any traditions of any particular denomination or group.

  9. #174
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The point I was making to ewq was that this was NOT stated in the OT but in the NT.
    Further when Jesus said this and He was answered that the commandments were kept then Jesus added more things, which were the needed:
    Mat 19:20* The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?”*
    Mat 19:21* Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

    He knew that even keeping these he was lacking something.
    So Jesus said, sell what you have an follow me.
    The key being following Jesus, and the need to sell what he had was in order to not be kept from following Jesus by those things he had.

    The commandments NEVER give eternal life.
    Not the 613 Laws, nor the 10 commandments, nor the "Law of Christ" which is but clarifying the key things ALREADY stated in the OT.

    The Law is about right living, and therefore living right with God and with Man.
    God requires us to live correctly.
    Direct to the punch and wonderfully put together. Thank you.

  10. #175
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The point I was making to ewq was that this was NOT stated in the OT but in the NT.
    That's meaningless. Some of the NT has old covenant writings like the gospels prior to the death on the cross. The new covenant did not begin until Christ died.

    The commandments NEVER give eternal life.
    Christ said they did. They could under the old cov. That changed in the new cov. however.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  11. #176
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    That's meaningless. Some of the NT has old covenant writings like the gospels prior to the death on the cross. The new covenant did not begin until Christ died.
    The NC was brought into AFFECT with His death, but His death was for the OT saints as for the NT saints.

    Christ said they did. They could under the old cov. That changed in the new cov. however.
    Nope, Jesus did NOT say they could.
    Hebrews 10 says something different:
    Heb 10:1* For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.*
    Heb 10:2* Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins?*
    Heb 10:3* But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year.*
    Heb 10:4* For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.*
    Heb 10:5* Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me;*
    Heb 10:6* in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure.

    The sacrifices were ALWAYS only a SHADOW.
    It is IMPOSSIBLE for those sacrifices to take away sins, and the commandments were ALWAYS only the commands for HOW to live correctly.
    This is why the commandments, as summed up by Jesus still have a validity, in that Man is still called to live correctly with God and with Man.
    The Societal rules may change, but the moral rules and principles upon which the Societal rules were based continue.
    God will judge EVERYONE against these Laws.

    It is ONLY through the sacrifice of Jesus that we can be SAVED from this judgement by accepting the judgement fell on Jesus on our behalf.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    That's meaningless. Some of the NT has old covenant writings like the gospels prior to the death on the cross. The new covenant did not begin until Christ died.
    The NC was brought into AFFECT with His death, but His death was for the OT saints as for the NT saints.

    Christ said they did. They could under the old cov. That changed in the new cov. however.
    Nope, Jesus did NOT say they could.
    Hebrews 10 says something different:
    Heb 10:1* For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.*
    Heb 10:2* Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins?*
    Heb 10:3* But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year.*
    Heb 10:4* For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.*
    Heb 10:5* Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me;*
    Heb 10:6* in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure.

    The sacrifices were ALWAYS only a SHADOW.
    It is IMPOSSIBLE for those sacrifices to take away sins, and the commandments were ALWAYS only the commands for HOW to live correctly.
    This is why the commandments, as summed up by Jesus still have a validity, in that Man is still called to live correctly with God and with Man.
    The Societal rules may change, but the moral rules and principles upon which the Societal rules were based continue.
    God will judge EVERYONE against these Laws.

    It is ONLY through the sacrifice of Jesus that we can be SAVED from this judgement by accepting the judgement fell on Jesus on our behalf.

  12. #177
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Nope, Jesus did NOT say they could.
    Yes he did.

    Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  13. #178
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Yes he did.

    Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    It helps when you take ALL that Jesus said, for what was the answer?
    The answer was that the man had kept these.
    IOW you cannot enter without keeping them, but by themselves they are NOT enough.
    Yet more was required:
    Mat 19:21* Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

    So there was MORE than just keeping the commands, which is why the disciples then asked:
    Mat 19:25* When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”*
    Mat 19:26* But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

    Notice that Jesus clearly states "with Man this is IMPOSSIBLE..."

    Never take a text out of context for it can lead to all sorts of errors.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Yes he did.

    Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    It helps when you take ALL that Jesus said, for what was the answer?
    The answer was that the man had kept these.
    IOW you cannot enter without keeping them, but by themselves they are NOT enough.
    Yet more was required:
    Mat 19:21* Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

    So there was MORE than just keeping the commands, which is why the disciples then asked:
    Mat 19:25* When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”*
    Mat 19:26* But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

    Notice that Jesus clearly states "with Man this is IMPOSSIBLE..."

    Never take a text out of context for it can lead to all sorts of errors.

  14. #179
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Yet more was required:
    Mat 19:21* Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

    So there was MORE than just keeping the commands, which is why the disciples then asked:
    No, that wasn't required. That was like "going the extra mile"...to be perfect. Christ already said to get eternal life you must keep the commandments. There was nothing else needed at that time.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  15. #180
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    Re: When will the OT saints arise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, that wasn't required. That was like "going the extra mile"...to be perfect. Christ already said to get eternal life you must keep the commandments. There was nothing else needed at that time.
    Nope it WAS required.
    The opening statement Jesus made was BUT the starting point. It was not the TOTALITY of the requirement.

    You CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God without being perfect JUST as His Father in Heaven is perfect.
    This is the STANDARD required.

    This is why the disciples were then asking, well who then can have eternal life?
    Jesus' response was - No one can gain eternal life - ONLY God can gift it.

    This has ALWAYS been the FACT in the OT and the NT.
    Paul clarifies this in Romans 2 where he notes God's judgement and the wretched state we are in and then gives praise because of Jesus' sacrifice which then allows God to gift eternal life to those who He choses.

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