View Poll Results: Who is the bride?

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  • The church only

    3 27.27%
  • The 144,000 only

    1 9.09%
  • All believers

    7 63.64%
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Thread: Who is the bride?

  1. #16
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    If Israel was the bride before the NT age then what about Adam ,Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Isaac?

    There is only one bride made up of the faithful before and after the cross

    All believers

    Rev 21:2 9&10

    Yes, brother, one Body from Adam to us.

    This seems to make much sense to me.

    God has been calling His people since Creation ( althougt in slightly different ways, at different times, but in the end, He wants His people, who hear his call, to come out and join Him for Eternity. )

    Simple.
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time



  2. #17

    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I agree with most of what your posting reveals. It is just the above point which I understand differently. But first, to show my understanding we must notice that the Wedding Feast explains the Coming Kingdom of Heaven when Christ returns and institutes heavenly rule on earth. Thus, any one "called" and who heads the call, must be born again. The heard the call, believed it and acted on it. Hebrews 3:1 calls the Christians those of the "Heavenly Calling".

    Next, we must define what a "garment" in Parable is. A Garment in Parable is WORKS (e.g. Psalm 73:6 109:18; Isaiah 59:17). Revelation 19:8 says it clearly, "... fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.".

    And once that is defined we must see that the man of God must have TWO garments. Aaron, for his everyday WORKS, had the Law of Moses. But when He went into the Holy of Holies once a year on the Day of Atonement, and was before the presence of God, He had to have a special Garment. If he did not wear that soecial garment he was killed on the spot, for God is a Holy God and cannot have profane things in His company. So too the Christian has TWO garments.

    (1) For his fellowship with God the Christian must approach God "in Jesus' Name. That is, he approaches God based on, and fully identifying with the WORKS of Jesus. That is called IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS. So both Romans 13:14 and Galatians 3:27 say severally;
    • 14 "But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."
    • 27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

    (2) For his daily walk in the Church and among the Nations, the Christian is expected to have "good works". So Ephesians 2:10 says; "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them".

    Now, while the Christian must approach God in Jesus' Name with Jesus' righteousness, to enter the Kingdom he must produce HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS or RIGHTEOUS WORKS. In Matthew 5:20 it is; "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." In the Parables of the Talents and the Pounds, it was the PERFORMANCE of the servant that decided then entering the Kingdom. In Romans 14.10 and 2nd Corinthians 5:10 the Christian is judged on what HE/SHE DID.

    The guest who was ejected, as shown above, obeyed the call, came with intent to the King's Son's wedding feast, took his place there, was BORN AGAIN and Baptized. But his WORKS were not up to standard. One can see that he knew this because when he was asked by the King about his garment "he was SPEECHLESS!" He offered NO EXCUSE!

    Lastly, OUTER DARKNESS is only ever used in connection with God's people. The term "Outer Darkness" appears in;
    1. Matthew 8:12: "But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." The context is the Jews - God's People
    2. Matthew 22:13: "Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." This was a man who, as shown above, heeded the call, and entered the feast. He is, in every respect, the SAME as the other guests. He must be a Christian because he BELIEVED and ACTED on the call. ONLY his WORKS were wanting.
    3. Matthew 25:30: "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." In Matthew 25 the man is the same as the other servants. He is not only called a "servant" before the judgement, but after the judgement as well. He is given a Talent the same as the other servants, and has the same duty. He calls Jesus "Lord" in verse 24. And in verse 26 it is "HIS Lord". The servants were ALL Christians. Just one was slothful and demeaning to God's character.

    "Outer Darkness" is never equated with Gehenna, "perdition", the Second Death and/or "the Lake of Fire". Much more it is the absence of the presence of Jesus. Our Lord Jesus is "light" and the "light of the world". When He returns in 2nd Peter 1:19 it is "day". And in Revelation 21.23 Jesus is the light of the New Jerusalem. So to be in "darkness" after our Lord Jesus has returned is to be sent away and parted from Jesus. The work "Outer" then comes because in ALL THREE cases the children of the Kingdom and/or the unfaithful servant was cast OUT of the presence of his Lord.

    I propose that the guest in the Wedding Feast was a slothful Christian. We all know some. We might even be one ourselves. Look what it takes to be cast out of the coming Kingdom. Galatians 5:19-21 is addressed to Christians and is WORKS!

    19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

    These are all great points. I probably differ a little on one or two points:

    I do believe the wedding referred to in the parable and other scriptures is taken place when we are born again. I believe I am now already married to Christ and it took place when I gave my life to him.

    I also believe he has gone away to prepare a place and when he returns, he will retrieve his bride to take her home. I also believe the kingdom of heaven is now, and that he came into his kingdom when he was crucified and gave his life on the cross.

    But I understand there are many different view points on the subject and have no point of contention with any who believe differently. Christ knows who his children are and also knows who belongs to him and who are counted worthy.

  3. #18
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Question...…..

    Rev 19
    7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
    8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
    9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


    If the wife is the church how can she make herself ready before the 2nd coming?

    it also appears the wife is separate than those whom are called to the marriage.?


    My view is the 144,000 is the bride. The church are those called.
    She should always be ready she should be a pure church as Jesus has made us pure

  4. #19
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    If Israel was the bride before the NT age then what about Adam ,Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Isaac?

    There is only one bride made up of the faithful before and after the cross

    All believers

    Rev 21:2 9&10
    I believe Israel was being dealt with as a nation. "Bride" was not an exclusive term, meaning that other, previous saints were no less than God's "bride." Israel, however, was and is the Bride of God, as well, since they were under covenant with God. And today, all nations are God's Bride, with respect to those within those nations who are genuine believers.

  5. #20
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    These are all great points. I probably differ a little on one or two points:

    I do believe the wedding referred to in the parable and other scriptures is taken place when we are born again. I believe I am now already married to Christ and it took place when I gave my life to him.

    I also believe he has gone away to prepare a place and when he returns, he will retrieve his bride to take her home. I also believe the kingdom of heaven is now, and that he came into his kingdom when he was crucified and gave his life on the cross.

    But I understand there are many different view points on the subject and have no point of contention with any who believe differently. Christ knows who his children are and also knows who belongs to him and who are counted worthy.
    Thank you for your answer. May the Lord give us ALL (including me) light on the matter. God bless.

  6. #21
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Question...…..

    Rev 19
    7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
    8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
    9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


    If the wife is the church how can she make herself ready before the 2nd coming?

    it also appears the wife is separate than those whom are called to the marriage.?


    My view is the 144,000 is the bride. The church are those called.
    The time for making oneself ready is NOW - in your lifetime. That is why the past tense is used "HATH made herself ready". If the garment is works, NOW is the time to make it.

    Your second question is very good. As I said in my first posting, the marriage Feast is spoken of, the Father is spoken of and the GUESTS are spoken of. BUT WHERE IS THE BRIDE? The Bride is not mentioned because at the end of the age the Church will NOT be without spot, wrinkle or blemish. But who will be? THE OVERCOMERS! They are a REPRESENTATIVE Bride for the sake of the Feast. What is meant by REPRESENTATIVE?

    All through scripture God uses the principle of the REMNANT;
    • Noah's family was the "remnant" of men. There were only eight, but from these eight came the whole world's population INCLUDING our Lord Jesus
    • In Israel, when the law failed, the Lord raised up the Levites to serve Him. Later, when the Levites failed, the Lord raised up the Judges. When they failed the Lord raised up prophets. When the prophets failed the Rite of the Nazerite was in place.
    • In interceding for Sodom, Abraham relied on REMNANT to save the city, starting from fifty and ending with ten. God would have saved the city for ten men - a REMNANT
    • IN Israel's darkest moment at Elijah's time, God had reserved a REMNANT for Himself
    • In Deuteronomy 30 the recovery of Israel depends on Israel turning back to the Law. But at its moment of crisis as the Great Tribulation dawns, only 144,000 are found (Rev.7:1-8) - A REMNANT
    • After over three years of miracles, signs and wonders and Spirit-inspired teaching, all that remained of our Lord's following was 120 - a REMNANT (Act.1:15)

    It is in the councils of the Almighty that when He cannot achieve His goal with ALL His People, He takes out a REMNANT to fulfill His plan. At the end of the age the Wedding FEAST is come. Christ is to be glorified and vindicated. The Kingdom of Heaven is the "JOY" of the Lord. Shall the beloved Son of God feast His wedding feast without the BRIDE? The Father would NEVER allow this. So those who have walked with Jesus, those who listened at His feet, those who were obedient, those who were intimate with Him, and those that suffered His sufferings are presented to Him as a BRIDE for His "joy". Is the Bride COMPLETE? By no means, for a thousand years later, as the New Earth is ushered in, the FULL BRIDE is presented. During this 1,000 years, while Christ enjoys His most intimate companions, the rest of the Church are dealt with to make them "without spot or wrinkle or blemish". Notice in Revelation 21, which is after the Millennium, THERE IS NO TALK OF A WEDDING FEAST! The Bride is READY, but the feast for SELECT GUESTS and a REPRESENTATIVE BRIDE is over.

    The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are the BRIDE for the Feast. They are not ALL Christians. All Christian are not ready at the end of the age. But 1,000 years later, New Jerusalem, the Bride, is made of all Christians. Those who needed chastising in the Millennium need God to wipe away their tears (Rev.21:4). All old things are passed away and all things are NEW.

  7. #22
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    All one has to look at is the ancient Jewish wedding ritual and the various references to what Yeshua said regarding wedding, bridegroom, etc.

    The betrothal is made and sealed. That occurred at the Passover meal before Yeshua's death.

    The Bridegroom pays the dowry or price for his betrothed. Yeshua did that when He died on the Cross.

    Then the bridegroom returns to His father's house to prepare the wedding chamber. He is not allowed to go get his bride until the Father approval. If anyone were to ask the groom when the marriage will be, he is to answer "only my father knows". Now compare all that to John 14:2-3. Matthew 24:36

    When the Father approves of the Chupah, or wedding chamber, the groom then can go get his bride. He comes by cloak of darkness and only announces his arrival at the point of blowing a shofar as he nears her house. He does not go into her place to get her, she is to come out to him. Then they return to the father's house and enter the Chupah and consulate the marriage. They spend 7 days in the chupah. That is equated to the 7 years of Daniel's 70th week, time of Jacob's trouble, etc.

    During that time, the announcement has gone out and the guests start heading to the area to attend the wedding banquet. After the 7 days, the groom and bride emerge from the chupah and go to the banquet. At that point, the bridesmaids who had helped her prepare when she was at home now are waiting for her again. These are the virgins of Matthew 25. Matthew 22:1-14 also talks about this and is a remarkable picture of those who are invited to the wedding feast. But keep in mind, they are not the bride.

    So I don't see all believers as being part of the "bride" as the parables of Yeshua lay things out. He made clear distinctions between OT saints, Church saints, and final GT period saints. While are all equal in terms of salvation, not all are part of the same body. Even Yeshua said all that came before John the Baptist, none was great than JB. Matthew 11:11 That would include Moses, Joshua, all the prophets, King David, etc. Yet, anyone who is part of the body of Messiah after JB is greater that JB. It is a positional thing along side Yeshua, not a salvation or redeemed thing. There are different categories of angels, there are different categories of believers.
    Israel.... the Believer's insurance policy!

  8. #23
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    This is the bride of Christ as i see her..

    Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us.


    Jude

    *edit: All Believers...
    If Jesus had preached the same message that ministers preach today, He would never have been crucified.

    ~ Leonard Ravenhill




  9. #24
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    All one has to look at is the ancient Jewish wedding ritual and the various references to what Yeshua said regarding wedding, bridegroom, etc.

    The betrothal is made and sealed. That occurred at the Passover meal before Yeshua's death.

    The Bridegroom pays the dowry or price for his betrothed. Yeshua did that when He died on the Cross.

    Then the bridegroom returns to His father's house to prepare the wedding chamber. He is not allowed to go get his bride until the Father approval. If anyone were to ask the groom when the marriage will be, he is to answer "only my father knows". Now compare all that to John 14:2-3. Matthew 24:36

    When the Father approves of the Chupah, or wedding chamber, the groom then can go get his bride. He comes by cloak of darkness and only announces his arrival at the point of blowing a shofar as he nears her house. He does not go into her place to get her, she is to come out to him. Then they return to the father's house and enter the Chupah and consulate the marriage. They spend 7 days in the chupah. That is equated to the 7 years of Daniel's 70th week, time of Jacob's trouble, etc.

    During that time, the announcement has gone out and the guests start heading to the area to attend the wedding banquet. After the 7 days, the groom and bride emerge from the chupah and go to the banquet. At that point, the bridesmaids who had helped her prepare when she was at home now are waiting for her again. These are the virgins of Matthew 25. Matthew 22:1-14 also talks about this and is a remarkable picture of those who are invited to the wedding feast. But keep in mind, they are not the bride.

    So I don't see all believers as being part of the "bride" as the parables of Yeshua lay things out. He made clear distinctions between OT saints, Church saints, and final GT period saints. While are all equal in terms of salvation, not all are part of the same body. Even Yeshua said all that came before John the Baptist, none was great than JB. Matthew 11:11 That would include Moses, Joshua, all the prophets, King David, etc. Yet, anyone who is part of the body of Messiah after JB is greater that JB. It is a positional thing along side Yeshua, not a salvation or redeemed thing. There are different categories of angels, there are different categories of believers.
    Just following up, the biggest mistakes Christians have made is to appropriate the promises made to Israel. The bride is a group from Israel as is clear for whom understands the O.T.:

    Jer. 3:8 « And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also ».

    Jer. 3:14 « Return, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am become your husband unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion ».

    This is about Israel for all to see, when God is reconnecting with Israel, He will be their Husband. This is of course an earthly blessing, to the Gentiles God promised much more.

    Aristarkos

  10. #25
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Just following up, the biggest mistakes Christians have made is to appropriate the promises made to Israel. The bride is a group from Israel as is clear for whom understands the O.T.:

    Jer. 3:8 « And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also ».

    Jer. 3:14 « Return, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am become your husband unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion ».

    This is about Israel for all to see, when God is reconnecting with Israel, He will be their Husband. This is of course an earthly blessing, to the Gentiles God promised much more.

    Aristarkos
    According to verse 6 and in verse 14, Yahweh is the Husband. The OP speaks of the bride of Christ. Yahweh WAS married but gave Israel a bill of divorce (3:8). That was some 120 years before Jeremiah wrote. The OP speaks of a future marriage.

  11. #26
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    According to verse 6 and in verse 14, Yahweh is the Husband. The OP speaks of the bride of Christ. Yahweh WAS married but gave Israel a bill of divorce (3:8). That was some 120 years before Jeremiah wrote. The OP speaks of a future marriage.
    So does Jer. 3:14 and since Yahweh is Christ I don't understand you objection. When something is written says nothing about the time it is written for.

    Aristarkos

  12. #27
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I believe Israel was being dealt with as a nation. "Bride" was not an exclusive term, meaning that other, previous saints were no less than God's "bride." Israel, however, was and is the Bride of God, as well, since they were under covenant with God. And today, all nations are God's Bride, with respect to those within those nations who are genuine believers.
    Yes Israel as a nation Were apart of Gods bride also. However I see the book of revelation also being a divorce certificate issued by God too Israel as she became the harlot God nudged who committed audultrey thus the true church is the bride God marries

  13. #28
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Please support your view with scriptures.
    There are TWO-BRIDES. Israel is the Bride of God, He married them long ago. The Church is the Bride of Christ.

  14. #29
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Just following up, the biggest mistakes Christians have made is to appropriate the promises made to Israel. The bride is a group from Israel as is clear for whom understands the O.T.:

    Jer. 3:8 « And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also ».

    Jer. 3:14 « Return, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am become your husband unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion ».

    This is about Israel for all to see, when God is reconnecting with Israel, He will be their Husband. This is of course an earthly blessing, to the Gentiles God promised much more.

    Aristarkos
    I don't think so. What about this passage then?

    2 Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

    Here, Paul was writing to a Gentile church, the Corinthians, informing them he has betrothed them to Christ. Was Paul mistaken?

  15. #30
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    Re: Who is the bride?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Who do you think are the wedding guests?
    The wedding dress is not a separate entity, just a token of righteousness. As brides often wear white to symbolize chastity, the same way the bride of Christ is adorned in white linen as a representation of her of purity and righteousness.

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