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Thread: works the most gets the most

  1. #1
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    works the most gets the most

    Mat 20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
    Mat 20:2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
    Mat 20:3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
    Mat 20:4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
    Mat 20:5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
    Mat 20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
    Mat 20:7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
    Mat 20:8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
    Mat 20:9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
    Mat 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
    Mat 20:11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
    Mat 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
    Mat 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
    Mat 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
    Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
    Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

    how is it just that the ones who labored for the leat amount of time receive the same as the ones who suffered the brunt of the day? surly we see it just for a man to recieve according to his effort. he who works the most gets the most. or is the reward in the case of the Kingdom of Heaven is that the same is for all? The Lord God did tell Abraham He was Abraham's great reward, but it would seem the parable of the talents shows otherwise when it comes to amounts. Jesus says this result in the parable of the laborers is right and just or "good" so therefore it is.

    Is it simply the agreement? The fulfillment of the agreement according to the agreement is right and just. and one is only entitle the fulfillment of the agreement at hand. therefore the Lord describes it evil to expect otherwise.
    Let there be Light

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    Mat 20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
    Mat 20:2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
    Mat 20:3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
    Mat 20:4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
    Mat 20:5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
    Mat 20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
    Mat 20:7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
    Mat 20:8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
    Mat 20:9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
    Mat 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
    Mat 20:11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
    Mat 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
    Mat 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
    Mat 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
    Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
    Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

    how is it just that the ones who labored for the leat amount of time receive the same as the ones who suffered the brunt of the day? surly we see it just for a man to recieve according to his effort. he who works the most gets the most. or is the reward in the case of the Kingdom of Heaven is that the same is for all? The Lord God did tell Abraham He was Abraham's great reward, but it would seem the parable of the talents shows otherwise when it comes to amounts. Jesus says this result in the parable of the laborers is right and just or "good" so therefore it is.

    Is it simply the agreement? The fulfillment of the agreement according to the agreement is right and just. and one is only entitle the fulfillment of the agreement at hand. therefore the Lord describes it evil to expect otherwise.
    How I see this maybe right maybe wrong.
    Those that Labour first to do the land owners bidding, namely God's bidding.
    They were first.
    Then midday he sent for more to do his bidding, and so on.

    Even those who were last still did his bidding, they will still have the same reward as the ones who came first.

    The anger of the ones who worked the longest was not a just anger.

    How would you feel if you had worked so hard to reach your payment only to have someone who just spent the minimal amount of time.

    It's the same with the two brothers.
    One stayed with his father and did all he asked.
    The other went into the world and committed fornication, drunkenness etc.
    Eventually he was left barren and did not at first want to return th his father due to shame.
    But he did return, and his father was filled with much joy and put on a calibration for him, which the other brother found wrong.

    God is happy when we come back to him, it's a warning that we feel anger for one that returns to God.

    I maybe completely wrong, it's ourselves we must understand first, to bring the mind to reflect the outside.

    Many go astray but all will be forgiven if they truly repent and do his will, even at the last second.

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    This comes on the heels of the story of the rich, young ruler and the disciples wondering just who could be saved.

    Then Peter tells Jesus that they have forsaken everything for him and what are they going to get in return.

    Jesus says that they will have a reward and that everyone who gives up much to follow him will receive 100 fold, BUT that many who are first will be last and many who are last will be first.....

    …..all of that is in chapter 19. Then in chapter 20, he continues talking to them and tells the parable you have quote. He is explaining what he means by first/last and last/first.

    These early workers DID do the bulk of the work and received a reward that they were happy with. As the landowner had to hire more workers to get the job done, he was very merciful and paid these late coming workers the same.

    Why couldn't these early workers see the mercy in the landowner? Because they were blinded by jealousy. They were acting like Pharisees and the landowner says to them, "Are you "envious" because I am good?" Some versions say begrudging, jealous, and resentful. Some versions say they have the "evil eye" to the landowner.

    Whatever phrase, the implication is that the early workers did the work for the reward and did not have a heart of mercy towards the other workers and actually scorned the landowner.

    They might have been first in line to work and worked longer, but they were last when it came to mercy and joy and love of the landowner. Then Jesus repeats the phrase, "The first will be last and the last will be first".
    ".....it's your nickel"

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    Mat 20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
    Mat 20:2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
    Mat 20:3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
    Mat 20:4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
    Mat 20:5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
    Mat 20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
    Mat 20:7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
    Mat 20:8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
    Mat 20:9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
    Mat 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
    Mat 20:11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
    Mat 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
    Mat 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
    Mat 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
    Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
    Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

    how is it just that the ones who labored for the leat amount of time receive the same as the ones who suffered the brunt of the day? surly we see it just for a man to recieve according to his effort. he who works the most gets the most. or is the reward in the case of the Kingdom of Heaven is that the same is for all? The Lord God did tell Abraham He was Abraham's great reward, but it would seem the parable of the talents shows otherwise when it comes to amounts. Jesus says this result in the parable of the laborers is right and just or "good" so therefore it is.

    Is it simply the agreement? The fulfillment of the agreement according to the agreement is right and just. and one is only entitle the fulfillment of the agreement at hand. therefore the Lord describes it evil to expect otherwise.
    The Parable is about the Kingdom of Heaven. By this is understood the coming Millennial Kingdom of Christ when He returns and brings heavenly rule on the earth to fulfill His prayer to His Father in Matthew 6:10. "Thy (God's) kingdom come (to earth). Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Notice in the Parable shows, like that of the Wheat and the Tares, the Talents and the Virgins, that the reckoning and apportioning of rewards is at the end of the age when our Lord comes. Notice also that in the Parables on the Kingdom of Heaven that it is ALWAYS based on WORKS. Those who are found worthy of the coming Kingdom of Heaven are judged on what they DID.

    The Parable shows at least THREE things:
    1. The early workers were under Contract, or Covenant. Those under Covenant has to work longer and harder. Those under Covenant received their reward as per the Covenant. There was no room for grace because a DEAL was made. Those under Covenant showed a mean spirit to wards their Master, accusing Him of unrighteousness. But He had just kept the conditions of the Covenant - the sign of a RIGHTEOUS Master. The lesson. As DISCIPLES and SERVANTS of God, do not make vows (Matt.5:33-37). Do not enter in a Covenant with God. For the coming Kingdom TRUST is needed.
    2. The later workers entered the service of the Master IN FAITH. They left their wages and treatment in His hands. They depended on GRACE. They showed a satisfied spirit because although there were difference in wages between them, they did not complain, but were meek in accepting what the Master deemed good.
    3. The humanistic thinking of our times is faulty. God does not promise EQUALITY among men. God only demands EQUALITY BEFORE LAW. God is sovereign and gives to whom He wants, what He wants. In the Parable of the Talents it is, "And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey" (Matt.25:15). Not only is God sovereign in His giving of Talents but He is sovereign in His giving of "ABILITY". One man is a nuclear physicist, another a sharp business man and another must do with an average IQ. Even to another is given that he is weak and sickly while the last is an Olympic athlete. The REWARD is the Kingdom and all it holds. In the Parable of the Talents in Matthew, which shows FAITHFULNESS, the reward is "the joy of the Lord". In the Parable of the "Pounds" in Luke, which shows DILIGENCE, the RESPONSIBILITY over cities is in accordance with diligence.

    In the Body of Christ - the Church, there are differing parts and differing organs, each with a different FUNCTION. The Lord has set us in the body as He wishes. Let not is the hidden kidney that deals with urine, be envious of another who is great thigh muscle that all wonder at at a football match. Let us be satisfied that the Lord has chosen us to do what HE wants. The way INTO THE COMING KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ON EARTH and the JOY of the Lord is to have a meek and thankful heart.

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    This comes on the heels of the story of the rich, young ruler and the disciples wondering just who could be saved.

    Then Peter tells Jesus that they have forsaken everything for him and what are they going to get in return.

    Jesus says that they will have a reward and that everyone who gives up much to follow him will receive 100 fold, BUT that many who are first will be last and many who are last will be first.....

    …..all of that is in chapter 19. Then in chapter 20, he continues talking to them and tells the parable you have quote. He is explaining what he means by first/last and last/first.

    These early workers DID do the bulk of the work and received a reward that they were happy with. As the landowner had to hire more workers to get the job done, he was very merciful and paid these late coming workers the same.

    Why couldn't these early workers see the mercy in the landowner? Because they were blinded by jealousy. They were acting like Pharisees and the landowner says to them, "Are you "envious" because I am good?" Some versions say begrudging, jealous, and resentful. Some versions say they have the "evil eye" to the landowner.

    Whatever phrase, the implication is that the early workers did the work for the reward and did not have a heart of mercy towards the other workers and actually scorned the landowner.

    They might have been first in line to work and worked longer, but they were last when it came to mercy and joy and love of the landowner. Then Jesus repeats the phrase, "The first will be last and the last will be first".
    I have always been fascinated with the parable of the Householder and his labourers in Matt 20. And I have done some extensive study on the topic. Jesus used this parable to expound on the mystery of his free salvation that many too often miss. The penny paid out for the labour represents salvation. This by no means, suggests that salvation is earned through works. To understand the moral of the story, we must first peel away the aspects that merely play a supportive role in the narrative, and what is left is the actual message. So Jesus simply used this analogy to explain why salvation is equal in value irrespective of when it was received.

    The householder is Jesus and the first labourer that started work early in the morning can be likened to one born to Christian parents who came to faith as soon as he's able to walk and remained in faith to the end. Whereas the various times in the day that new labourers came into the vineyard represents the variety of times that people come to faith. For example, some come to Christ in their teens, twenties, thirties, sixties - years old etc.

    Remarkably, the labourer that came to the vineyard one hour to pay time can be likened to one who came to Christ on their death bed. An example is the thief on the cross. As the labourers, all received a penny irrespective of when they started work, it is the same way the child that believed from infancy to atheist who only believed at e.g. age 90-100 years old or at the point of death received the same.

    As the early labourers expected to be paid more and grumbled when they got the same, ergo the one that believed in young age should not expect more than those that will come in later. In the end, the salvation of the one that has been in Christ from one year forward was no more valuable than the salvation of those that came to faith pretty late.

    The key to understanding that the labour wrought has no relative impact on the "gift" of salvation is found in these verses:

    Matt 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? Remember what God told Moses in the wilderness? (Exodus 33:19; Rom 9:15) "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and compassion on whom I will.

    But verse 16 speaks directly to Israel. "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."

    1. Israel was the first called by God, but because of rebellion and unbelief, they will be the LAST.
    2. Many are called, but few are chosen: many (Jew/Gentile) are called through the hearing of the Gospel. But few will actually believe and be saved.

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The Parable is about the Kingdom of Heaven. By this is understood the coming Millennial Kingdom of Christ when He returns and brings heavenly rule on the earth to fulfill His prayer to His Father in Matthew 6:10. "Thy (God's) kingdom come (to earth). Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Notice in the Parable shows, like that of the Wheat and the Tares, the Talents and the Virgins, that the reckoning and apportioning of rewards is at the end of the age when our Lord comes. Notice also that in the Parables on the Kingdom of Heaven that it is ALWAYS based on WORKS. Those who are found worthy of the coming Kingdom of Heaven are judged on what they DID.
    If the parable is about the reward of works, then how do you explain their equal pay given the different times put in? According to Jesus, the reward for "work" is commensurate in value against the free gift of salvation/eternal life that is equal.

    Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The Parable shows at least THREE things:
    1. The early workers were under Contract, or Covenant. Those under Covenant has to work longer and harder. Those under Covenant received their reward as per the Covenant. There was no room for grace because a DEAL was made. Those under Covenant showed a mean spirit to wards their Master, accusing Him of unrighteousness. But He had just kept the conditions of the Covenant - the sign of a RIGHTEOUS Master. The lesson. As DISCIPLES and SERVANTS of God, do not make vows (Matt.5:33-37). Do not enter in a Covenant with God. For the coming Kingdom TRUST is needed.
    2. The later workers entered the service of the Master IN FAITH. They left their wages and treatment in His hands. They depended on GRACE. They showed a satisfied spirit because although there were difference in wages between them, they did not complain, but were meek in accepting what the Master deemed good.
    3. The humanistic thinking of our times is faulty. God does not promise EQUALITY among men. God only demands EQUALITY BEFORE LAW. God is sovereign and gives to whom He wants, what He wants. In the Parable of the Talents it is, "And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey" (Matt.25:15). Not only is God sovereign in His giving of Talents but He is sovereign in His giving of "ABILITY". One man is a nuclear physicist, another a sharp business man and another must do with an average IQ. Even to another is given that he is weak and sickly while the last is an Olympic athlete. The REWARD is the Kingdom and all it holds. In the Parable of the Talents in Matthew, which shows FAITHFULNESS, the reward is "the joy of the Lord". In the Parable of the "Pounds" in Luke, which shows DILIGENCE, the RESPONSIBILITY over cities is in accordance with diligence.

    In the Body of Christ - the Church, there are differing parts and differing organs, each with a different FUNCTION. The Lord has set us in the body as He wishes. Let not is the hidden kidney that deals with urine, be envious of another who is great thigh muscle that all wonder at at a football match. Let us be satisfied that the Lord has chosen us to do what HE wants. The way INTO THE COMING KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ON EARTH and the JOY of the Lord is to have a meek and thankful heart.
    I'm not sure how the early worker's contract, supposedly Israel's Covenant with God requires them to work longer and harder? All God required of them is FAITH and BELIEF; no different from what is required of the Gentile.

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    If the parable is about the reward of works, then how do you explain their equal pay given the different times put in? According to Jesus, the reward for "work" is commensurate in value against the free gift of salvation/eternal life that is equal.

    Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.



    I'm not sure how the early worker's contract, supposedly Israel's Covenant with God requires them to work longer and harder? All God required of them is FAITH and BELIEF; no different from what is required of the Gentile.
    Your questions are valid. Here is my understanding.

    I made a difference here because the theme is "The Kingdom of Heaven". I said that entering or inheriting the Kingdom was the reward in this parable. That each individual receives his personal portion is not denied. It is, in the preamble, "The kingdom of heaven is like ... ." (Matthew 22:2). I cannot speculate because it never happened, but in your case and objection, it might have read; The Judgement Seat of Christ is the day that each man receives according to his works. But the Parable is about the Kingdom. The coin speaks of a place in the Kingdom. Here is my question for you.

    In 1st Samuel 30 David chases, defeats and recovers his and his followers' things and wifes from the Amalekites. In the process, 200 of the 400 hundred with David grew weary and faint, and could neither pursue nor engage the enemy. When all was recovered, the 200 who had denied their flesh, extended themselves, and taken the risks of battle, said that the 200 who stayed behind should get no any of the spoil. But David not only overruled them but made it a statute that the spoil was to be divided equally. On what basis did he do this?

    As to the workers under Contract, I answer thus. The Law addresses the flesh. It requires the man BODILY to do things. And many men kept it. But the POWER to accomplish the Law was the man's own power - a great effort. The man under grace has the greatest of advantages in this respect. Paul, addressing Christians in Philippians 2:13 says; "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." It is then evident that in terms of PERFORMANCE the man under grace will work less and receive the same reward - the Kingdom.

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlin633 View Post
    How I see this maybe right maybe wrong.
    Those that Labour first to do the land owners bidding, namely God's bidding.
    They were first.
    Then midday he sent for more to do his bidding, and so on.

    Even those who were last still did his bidding, they will still have the same reward as the ones who came first.

    The anger of the ones who worked the longest was not a just anger.

    How would you feel if you had worked so hard to reach your payment only to have someone who just spent the minimal amount of time.

    It's the same with the two brothers.
    One stayed with his father and did all he asked.
    The other went into the world and committed fornication, drunkenness etc.
    Eventually he was left barren and did not at first want to return th his father due to shame.
    But he did return, and his father was filled with much joy and put on a calibration for him, which the other brother found wrong.

    God is happy when we come back to him, it's a warning that we feel anger for one that returns to God.

    I maybe completely wrong, it's ourselves we must understand first, to bring the mind to reflect the outside.

    Many go astray but all will be forgiven if they truly repent and do his will, even at the last second.
    no, the parodical son is not the same at all.
    Let there be Light

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The Parable is about the Kingdom of Heaven. By this is understood the coming Millennial Kingdom of Christ when He returns and brings heavenly rule on the earth to fulfill His prayer to His Father in Matthew 6:10. "Thy (God's) kingdom come (to earth). Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." Notice in the Parable shows, like that of the Wheat and the Tares, the Talents and the Virgins, that the reckoning and apportioning of rewards is at the end of the age when our Lord comes. Notice also that in the Parables on the Kingdom of Heaven that it is ALWAYS based on WORKS. Those who are found worthy of the coming Kingdom of Heaven are judged on what they DID.

    The Parable shows at least THREE things:
    1. The early workers were under Contract, or Covenant. Those under Covenant has to work longer and harder. Those under Covenant received their reward as per the Covenant. There was no room for grace because a DEAL was made. Those under Covenant showed a mean spirit to wards their Master, accusing Him of unrighteousness. But He had just kept the conditions of the Covenant - the sign of a RIGHTEOUS Master. The lesson. As DISCIPLES and SERVANTS of God, do not make vows (Matt.5:33-37). Do not enter in a Covenant with God. For the coming Kingdom TRUST is needed.
    2. The later workers entered the service of the Master IN FAITH. They left their wages and treatment in His hands. They depended on GRACE. They showed a satisfied spirit because although there were difference in wages between them, they did not complain, but were meek in accepting what the Master deemed good.
    3. The humanistic thinking of our times is faulty. God does not promise EQUALITY among men. God only demands EQUALITY BEFORE LAW. God is sovereign and gives to whom He wants, what He wants. In the Parable of the Talents it is, "And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey" (Matt.25:15). Not only is God sovereign in His giving of Talents but He is sovereign in His giving of "ABILITY". One man is a nuclear physicist, another a sharp business man and another must do with an average IQ. Even to another is given that he is weak and sickly while the last is an Olympic athlete. The REWARD is the Kingdom and all it holds. In the Parable of the Talents in Matthew, which shows FAITHFULNESS, the reward is "the joy of the Lord". In the Parable of the "Pounds" in Luke, which shows DILIGENCE, the RESPONSIBILITY over cities is in accordance with diligence.

    In the Body of Christ - the Church, there are differing parts and differing organs, each with a different FUNCTION. The Lord has set us in the body as He wishes. Let not is the hidden kidney that deals with urine, be envious of another who is great thigh muscle that all wonder at at a football match. Let us be satisfied that the Lord has chosen us to do what HE wants. The way INTO THE COMING KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ON EARTH and the JOY of the Lord is to have a meek and thankful heart.
    nope its about the fulfillment of agreement according to the agreement. in this case the Lord God's agreement, of which He has done and maintained agreements since Adam. God "the Father" is in Heaven the Throne of God, therefore this is what the Kingdom of Heaven is like, in that the ruler of the Kingdom will make agreement and keep it faithfully according to what He has agreed to. not according to the labor's time spent, nor the laborer's views of what is entitled.
    Let there be Light

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post
    nope its about the fulfillment of agreement according to the agreement. in this case the Lord God's agreement, of which He has done and maintained agreements since Adam. God "the Father" is in Heaven the Throne of God, therefore this is what the Kingdom of Heaven is like, in that the ruler of the Kingdom will make agreement and keep it faithfully according to what He has agreed to. not according to the labor's time spent, nor the laborer's views of what is entitled.
    Thanks for the reply. Please forgive me. I don't know which statement of mine you object to, and what the correction is.

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Your questions are valid. Here is my understanding.

    I made a difference here because the theme is "The Kingdom of Heaven". I said that entering or inheriting the Kingdom was the reward in this parable. That each individual receives his personal portion is not denied. It is, in the preamble, "The kingdom of heaven is like ... ." (Matthew 22:2). I cannot speculate because it never happened, but in your case and objection, it might have read; The Judgement Seat of Christ is the day that each man receives according to his works. But the Parable is about the Kingdom. The coin speaks of a place in the Kingdom. Here is my question for you.

    In 1st Samuel 30 David chases, defeats and recovers his and his followers' things and wifes from the Amalekites. In the process, 200 of the 400 hundred with David grew weary and faint, and could neither pursue nor engage the enemy. When all was recovered, the 200 who had denied their flesh, extended themselves, and taken the risks of battle, said that the 200 who stayed behind should get no any of the spoil. But David not only overruled them but made it a statute that the spoil was to be divided equally. On what basis did he do this?

    As to the workers under Contract, I answer thus. The Law addresses the flesh. It requires the man BODILY to do things. And many men kept it. But the POWER to accomplish the Law was the man's own power - a great effort. The man under grace has the greatest of advantages in this respect. Paul, addressing Christians in Philippians 2:13 says; "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." It is then evident that in terms of PERFORMANCE the man under grace will work less and receive the same reward - the Kingdom.
    Jesus used diverse parables in his Gospel that ultimately teaches about the kingdom of heaven and how to get there. The parable of the householder and his band of labourers is no different. I believe I presented an objective rendition in post #5 and showed how the essence of the parable is no more than that salvation/eternal life is equal. No one is greater in value than the other. Notice that the opening statement says "the kingdom of heaven is like unto..."? The inference here is that ALL the labourers are qualified to enter; however, Jesus reiterated that the ticket in is the same in value irrespective of the time each came in.

    With regards to David in 1 Sam 30, I don't believe a corroboration exists with Matthew 20. Nevertheless, I will address your query. It should be recalled that in v-8 David enquired of the Lord who assured him "pursue, for thou shall surely overtake them and without fail, recover all". Now, David was astute and also understood how to please God. Consequently, when his men were bickering about who gets what, he realised that numbers didn't influence their victory since God was behind them. So whether 200 or 400 men fought, the result would still have been the same. It is therefore not difficult to understand why he made the decision for all to partake of the spoils.

    Again, the parable has nothing to do with neither the Law, the flesh, works nor grace. If the parable is a contrast between those who work under grace against those relying on the law, then your case may have merit. But the parable definitely is not any of these things.

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    If you investigate more closely, you will find entrance into the KoH (earthly reign) is based on works and entrance into the KoG is not. No, this doesn't mean two gospels because one kingdom just happens, is for a period of time, is for the remaining survivors of the nations, both good and bad, and those that will remain beyond the earthly reign must do so by faith. I know this sounds confusing but not only is it very simple and based on christian theology 101 remember, unsaved sinners enter the KoH based on works, not believers, so don't compare apples to oranges.

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    If you investigate more closely, you will find entrance into the KoH (earthly reign) is based on works and entrance into the KoG is not. No, this doesn't mean two gospels because one kingdom just happens, is for a period of time, is for the remaining survivors of the nations, both good and bad, and those that will remain beyond the earthly reign must do so by faith. I know this sounds confusing but not only is it very simple and based on christian theology 101 remember, unsaved sinners enter the KoH based on works, not believers, so don't compare apples to oranges.
    Noeb, I think you're onto something I've always found confusing. I have generally assumed that the kingdom of heaven is synonymous with the kingdom of God. So please shed more light on why they are different?

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Noeb, I think you're onto something I've always found confusing. I have generally assumed that the kingdom of heaven is synonymous with the kingdom of God. So please shed more light on why they are different?
    Glory to God you and every believer finds it confusing! If all we had is Matthew Christianity would look a lot different. Look at the parable of the talents and see someone that did nothing be brought before the Lord and slain. Now go over to the parallel KoG passage in Luke and see he is not slain. In Matthew's Koh parable the wheat has to first be separated from the chaff, which takes place in Matt 25, but in the parallel passage in Mark there is no separation because the Lord knows who is his, they are just caught up to be with him, a completely separate event. You won't find a parallel to Mat 25 in Mark or Luke, and you won't find many other things in them like, many that call me Lord will not enter the kingdom of God. It's only found that many will not enter the Koh in the Koh passage because only Matthew, which is very Israel-centric, uses the phrase KoH and it refers what takes place on earth (now and future). The KoG refers to what takes place spiritually and is not only not Israel-centric but Jesus specifically said it would be taken from Israel and given to all that believe, both Jew and Gentile. No passage says the Koh would be taken from Israel. God would be braking his covenant to Abraham if it did. Matthew doesn't say the KoH has come upon you when demons are cast out and people are healed. It is never said that anyone entered the Koh before the scribes and pharisees. You cannot enter that which has not come. There's more. Fascinating, long term, study!

    Jesus didn't say there are mysteries because things are revealed by "revelation" or because it's so simple to understand in English everyone can understand and assume the Koh/G are synonymous. If the kingdom parables are so easily understood those without would have and been healed, but Jesus specifically said he spoke in parables so this would not happen (because they rejected him as Messiah). Why then do we just take them at face value like those that Jesus hid the meaning from did? We can make them mean whatever we want then, and unfortunately we do. No. We have to look at how Jesus defined the terms of the parables and how he interpreted the parables to the disciples privately because that's how the mysteries were given to them and us. Why do we see "mysteries" then conclude the "obvious"? Kinda silly, if you think about it.

    The goal is one kingdom but sin delayed it. The KoG has come in part. We wait for it in full. The Koh has not come in full (man ruling and reigning on earth with God), but we live in it in its broken state until it does. God decided The Kingdom would be on earth. He would dwell with and rule and reign with man here. That kingdom is spiritual and physical. These two aspects of The Kingdom are not running side by side at their full potential yet, but they will.

    Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

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    Re: works the most gets the most

    Quote Originally Posted by DPMartin View Post

    Is it simply the agreement?
    Maybe but I wonder how many people showed up the next day early in the morning and how many decided to show up at the 11th hour
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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